E91 Straight Six Bearding
Discussion
Mike335i said:
Agreed that it shouldn't be overtly understeery, what the the front tyres like? Mine feels relatively sharp at the front with some playfulness from the rear when really provoked.
I'd come from a Z4 M-Roadster and wasn't expecting it to be the last word in hooligan oversteer, but it wasn't quite as good as I was hoping for. The tyres were all very good Michelin Pilot Sport 2s. The auto box seemed to dull the response from my foot to the rear wheels in lower gears, so the only time it ever slid from the rear was in 2nd gear on wet roads. During long corners, it only ever felt neutral under a trailing throttle. I did the camber pin modification and it improved things fractionally, but even with 0 front toe or event a little toe-out at the front, it wasn't behaving like I wanted. The next thing was going to be a thicker rear ARB and if that brought no joy then maybe slightly more solid front lower arm bushes to keep the camber during harder cornering, but since I wasn't getting on with the automatic gearbox either, I decided I should get rid instead. The replacement M135i was considerably more focused and I was pleased to get back into a manual. However after 3 years in the M135i, I felt that was a bit tame too, so I'm now in the car that I should have bought in the first place, an E92 M3, which is far more oversteery than either of my previous cars. 
Z4 more oversteery, for sure, especially with an S54.
Auto 'box definitely dulled responses of a 330i I tried, but the paddle shifted models I drove, 335i/d, both drove well and were more neutral than anything else. I find the E90 pretty much goes where you want it to, though at this time of year you need to be a little more circumspect with the throttle.
Auto 'box definitely dulled responses of a 330i I tried, but the paddle shifted models I drove, 335i/d, both drove well and were more neutral than anything else. I find the E90 pretty much goes where you want it to, though at this time of year you need to be a little more circumspect with the throttle.
stevesingo said:
What was wrong with the shift in the first place and can you describe how it is now better?
Must admit I'm interested in this as well. I know I have an E82, which I presume to have the same gearbox, but overall I only have a couple of small issues with the changes - 1st to 2nd is as horrible to do quickly as it has been in any other BMW I've driven, and the clutch can get quite juddery if you try to change through the gears quickly. It also likes a judder when it's cold and damp, however I was led to believe they all do that. Sir. Is the CDV likely to be causing any of that?
ferrisbueller said:
Z4 more oversteery, for sure, especially with an S54.
The Z4M dances around more than the E92 M3, but that's down to a poor set up regards chassis/suspension. The M3 is more progressive and easier to control, you have much more trust in it. The E92 M3 is ten times the car when compared to the Z4M in terms of ride/handling/chassis for me.
cerb4.5lee said:
ferrisbueller said:
Z4 more oversteery, for sure, especially with an S54.
The Z4M dances around more than the E92 M3, but that's down to a poor set up regards chassis/suspension. The M3 is more progressive and easier to control, you have much more trust in it. The E92 M3 is ten times the car when compared to the Z4M in terms of ride/handling/chassis for me.
bodhi said:
stevesingo said:
What was wrong with the shift in the first place and can you describe how it is now better?
Must admit I'm interested in this as well. I know I have an E82, which I presume to have the same gearbox, but overall I only have a couple of small issues with the changes - 1st to 2nd is as horrible to do quickly as it has been in any other BMW I've driven, and the clutch can get quite juddery if you try to change through the gears quickly. It also likes a judder when it's cold and damp, however I was led to believe they all do that. Sir. Is the CDV likely to be causing any of that?
I have done the following, each of what has made a small improvement, but overall I should really get a new DMF + clutch.. I also have a clubsport weighted knob on it - the throw on this is nice, and when everything is up to temperature and you get everything spot on - it's alright. But I'm only human, so I mess up on occasion, and the car is obviously always cold to begin with!
- Gearbox and diff fluids changed.
- CDV removal
- Fully bled clutch hydraulics (was meant to be getting a braided line - but hel messed me about).
- Removed clutch return spring on the pedal box - so I only feel the clutch hydraulics.
- Prop flex discs changed (had the prop out anyway when I dropped the fuel tank to fix the leaky fuel breather pipe thing that plagued early e90s).
- Gearbox mounts changed.
So I should probs change the engine mounts (pretty sure they're original and I'm on 195k miles now), and the DMF + clutch is really what needs changing. It's better when it's warm, and I've learnt to change gears accordingly, but every so often I'll change gear like a learn/jolt it a bit, where in any other car it would be barely noticeable that I've fluffed up. I pop back into my RX-8 and the gearbox is lovely by comparison, just whips through gears lovely - admittedly the mileage is about 1/5th of the 330i....
ferrisbueller said:
cerb4.5lee said:
ferrisbueller said:
Z4 more oversteery, for sure, especially with an S54.
The Z4M dances around more than the E92 M3, but that's down to a poor set up regards chassis/suspension. The M3 is more progressive and easier to control, you have much more trust in it. The E92 M3 is ten times the car when compared to the Z4M in terms of ride/handling/chassis for me.
cerb4.5lee said:
ferrisbueller said:
cerb4.5lee said:
ferrisbueller said:
Z4 more oversteery, for sure, especially with an S54.
The Z4M dances around more than the E92 M3, but that's down to a poor set up regards chassis/suspension. The M3 is more progressive and easier to control, you have much more trust in it. The E92 M3 is ten times the car when compared to the Z4M in terms of ride/handling/chassis for me.
ferrisbueller said:
cerb4.5lee said:
ferrisbueller said:
cerb4.5lee said:
ferrisbueller said:
Z4 more oversteery, for sure, especially with an S54.
The Z4M dances around more than the E92 M3, but that's down to a poor set up regards chassis/suspension. The M3 is more progressive and easier to control, you have much more trust in it. The E92 M3 is ten times the car when compared to the Z4M in terms of ride/handling/chassis for me.
and I think we can safely say that BMW aren't very good at making sports cars, however sports saloons are what they're really good at. 
zippyonline said:
bodhi said:
stevesingo said:
What was wrong with the shift in the first place and can you describe how it is now better?
Must admit I'm interested in this as well. I know I have an E82, which I presume to have the same gearbox, but overall I only have a couple of small issues with the changes - 1st to 2nd is as horrible to do quickly as it has been in any other BMW I've driven, and the clutch can get quite juddery if you try to change through the gears quickly. It also likes a judder when it's cold and damp, however I was led to believe they all do that. Sir. Is the CDV likely to be causing any of that?
I have done the following, each of what has made a small improvement, but overall I should really get a new DMF + clutch.. I also have a clubsport weighted knob on it - the throw on this is nice, and when everything is up to temperature and you get everything spot on - it's alright. But I'm only human, so I mess up on occasion, and the car is obviously always cold to begin with!
- Gearbox and diff fluids changed.
- CDV removal
- Fully bled clutch hydraulics (was meant to be getting a braided line - but hel messed me about).
- Removed clutch return spring on the pedal box - so I only feel the clutch hydraulics.
- Prop flex discs changed (had the prop out anyway when I dropped the fuel tank to fix the leaky fuel breather pipe thing that plagued early e90s).
- Gearbox mounts changed.
So I should probs change the engine mounts (pretty sure they're original and I'm on 195k miles now), and the DMF + clutch is really what needs changing. It's better when it's warm, and I've learnt to change gears accordingly, but every so often I'll change gear like a learn/jolt it a bit, where in any other car it would be barely noticeable that I've fluffed up. I pop back into my RX-8 and the gearbox is lovely by comparison, just whips through gears lovely - admittedly the mileage is about 1/5th of the 330i....
BMW reset some "parameters" on our previous E81 120d to cure clutch judder between 1st-2nd. Apparently needed both keys to work, but we only ever had one done so it remained when using the other key!
The next step after that, we were told, was to replace a few parts (I can't remember whether it was pedal box related or at the clutch end). There was a prescribed approach and solution to the known problem. Presumably similar exists for the E9x series.
Personally I was never a fan of the change in our only manual BMW, which was the 120d. Far too notchy - artifically so, as though they felt this makes it a sporty shift.
But then I'd been spoilt by the superb close and short shift in the Clio 197 I had at the time (til it needed the dreaded baulk ring rebuild).
The next step after that, we were told, was to replace a few parts (I can't remember whether it was pedal box related or at the clutch end). There was a prescribed approach and solution to the known problem. Presumably similar exists for the E9x series.
Personally I was never a fan of the change in our only manual BMW, which was the 120d. Far too notchy - artifically so, as though they felt this makes it a sporty shift.
But then I'd been spoilt by the superb close and short shift in the Clio 197 I had at the time (til it needed the dreaded baulk ring rebuild).
cerb4.5lee said:
The Z4M dances around more than the E92 M3, but that's down to a poor set up regards chassis/suspension. The M3 is more progressive and easier to control, you have much more trust in it.
The E92 M3 is ten times the car when compared to the Z4M in terms of ride/handling/chassis for me.
The M3 is very, very easy to drive over the limit, but I found the Z4M like that too. I bought my Z4M with terribly cheap tyres already on it though and they were an absolute hoot to drive on. Thinking back, it reminds me of the Chris Harris C63 on spacesavers video. The E92 M3 is ten times the car when compared to the Z4M in terms of ride/handling/chassis for me.
bennyboysvuk said:
cerb4.5lee said:
The Z4M dances around more than the E92 M3, but that's down to a poor set up regards chassis/suspension. The M3 is more progressive and easier to control, you have much more trust in it.
The E92 M3 is ten times the car when compared to the Z4M in terms of ride/handling/chassis for me.
The M3 is very, very easy to drive over the limit, but I found the Z4M like that too. I bought my Z4M with terribly cheap tyres already on it though and they were an absolute hoot to drive on. Thinking back, it reminds me of the Chris Harris C63 on spacesavers video. The E92 M3 is ten times the car when compared to the Z4M in terms of ride/handling/chassis for me.
Related to the transmission - has anyone with an N52 ever experienced a strange stutter between 1500 and 2000 rpm? Doesn't show up in the first 4 gears, but in 5th and 6th on the motorway with revs around that area when I put my foot down, there is a strange hesitation then a clunk from the drivetrain as power kicks in again.
In low gears or over 2000 rpm it is absolutely fine, and goes and sounds like it should. It's going in for service in January, should I be worried about the size of bill incoming?
In low gears or over 2000 rpm it is absolutely fine, and goes and sounds like it should. It's going in for service in January, should I be worried about the size of bill incoming?
bodhi said:
Related to the transmission - has anyone with an N52 ever experienced a strange stutter between 1500 and 2000 rpm? Doesn't show up in the first 4 gears, but in 5th and 6th on the motorway with revs around that area when I put my foot down, there is a strange hesitation then a clunk from the drivetrain as power kicks in again.
In low gears or over 2000 rpm it is absolutely fine, and goes and sounds like it should. It's going in for service in January, should I be worried about the size of bill incoming?
Nope. VANOS?In low gears or over 2000 rpm it is absolutely fine, and goes and sounds like it should. It's going in for service in January, should I be worried about the size of bill incoming?
bodhi said:
Related to the transmission - has anyone with an N52 ever experienced a strange stutter between 1500 and 2000 rpm? Doesn't show up in the first 4 gears, but in 5th and 6th on the motorway with revs around that area when I put my foot down, there is a strange hesitation then a clunk from the drivetrain as power kicks in again.
In low gears or over 2000 rpm it is absolutely fine, and goes and sounds like it should. It's going in for service in January, should I be worried about the size of bill incoming?
Mine does it and I don't think it is transmission related. You feel it as a clonk in the transmission but the root cause is engine related.In low gears or over 2000 rpm it is absolutely fine, and goes and sounds like it should. It's going in for service in January, should I be worried about the size of bill incoming?
I have checked fault codes and nothing comes up.
It feels like you make a torque demand through the accelerator pedal, but the engine doesn't respond, in fact it dies momentarily.
I have cleaned the VANOS solenoids and swapped from inlet to exhaust, but that made no difference.
The way the ECU responds to a torque demand is the eccentric shaft motor turns the eccentric shaft to the target position for the desired load. The eccentric shaft position is fed back to the ECU via the eccentric shaft sensor. Along with this, the appropriate fuel quantity and ignition advance for the transient to new torque demand.
What I think is happening is that either the eccentric shaft motor is sluggish and the engine runs too rich momentarily or the sensor is misreading and the incorrect fuel quantity is added.
My money is on the sluggish motor as the transient fueling will be calculated from the rate of torque demand increase and not from a measured amount of air from the MAP sensor. Also, mine only does it on rapid application of throttle. If you are gentle, no issue and also when cold also no issue as probably the cold start enrichment is covering the transient acceleration enrichment to some extent.
Kind of wish I had some logging software to test the theory.
ATM said:
I'm tempted to try a set of 205 50 17 all round for this reason.
Back in the day, I had a set of 205 / 50 (15s I think) Pirelli P6000s on my E30 325i Sport Touring with factory LSD and that was a fantastically entertaining car.I think for the sake of stopping distances though, you might prefer wider rubber.
So last weekend fitted new tyres and new windscreen (I'm friendly with a local windscreen guy). I'd even treated the new screen with my favourite gtechniq G1 screen coating before the new screen was on the car!
MOT this morning. 195k miles - passed - no advisories. Off to North Yorkshire (from Colchester) tomorrow AM.
MOT this morning. 195k miles - passed - no advisories. Off to North Yorkshire (from Colchester) tomorrow AM.
The Holy Grail - 330i M Sport N52 Manual with leather and nav (albeit a leggy 2005 car)
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Edited by tomic on Friday 8th December 23:30
bodhi said:
Related to the transmission - has anyone with an N52 ever experienced a strange stutter between 1500 and 2000 rpm? Doesn't show up in the first 4 gears, but in 5th and 6th on the motorway with revs around that area when I put my foot down, there is a strange hesitation then a clunk from the drivetrain as power kicks in again.
In low gears or over 2000 rpm it is absolutely fine, and goes and sounds like it should. It's going in for service in January, should I be worried about the size of bill incoming?
Hard to say really - I never seem to have my E86 in 5th or 6th below 2,000 rpm! In low gears or over 2000 rpm it is absolutely fine, and goes and sounds like it should. It's going in for service in January, should I be worried about the size of bill incoming?
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