E91 Straight Six Bearding

[ferrisbueller]

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

Comparing a 640d to an N52'd 330i is like comparing a Eurofighter to a Vulcan. They're designed to do different things with technological advances between generations. The 640d depreciated by more than it cost to buy a 2006 330i in the time it took me to type this (-ish )

Okay don't rub the depreciation in!

I always compared them because they're both 3 Litre Straight Six engines when all is said and done. One is slow and thirsty and one is quick and frugal!

With all due respect, that's nonsense.

Well I could never keep up with the 640d when I was in the 330i, and the 330i did 26mpg and the 640d did 40mpg.

Granted the 330i isn't really a slow car but its nowhere near as quick as a 640d in my experience. I couldn't even shake off a F30 330d I had some fun with in the 330i either.

And Vettel's F1 would destroy it, right? It's a six cylinder engine after all.

Again, you're comparing a 60k+ 640d to, time adjusted, possibly 8k worth of 330i and lambasting the 330i for not keeping up. I spent many miles in a 635d and at no point was I drawing comparisons to a 330i. They're completely different animals. FWIW I admire your ability to burn stacks of ten pound notes in depreciation. I've never been able to do it.

Your appreciation of what makes a good engine seems to be oddly skewed. Equally, when 258bhp in a mid-size saloon is "slow" your expectations are clearly high (0-60 in a smidge under 6 and a 161mph limited max is still contemporary hot hatch territory 12 years down the line). An E36 M3 had 286 bhp. Is it slow and thirsty, too? Or is the S50 fondly looked at as a stonking engine?

I have had, and continue to have, access to some of the very best engines ever made and a BMW NA petrol like the N52 is never shamed by them - in fact, pound for pound, it's right up there IMO. Their diesels are also up there with the best but I see no point in comparing a twin turbo six-pot diesel to an NA petrol. I don't see a situation where one makes that choice between a 640d and a 330i or similar.

[Swervin_Mervin]

It's completely pointless comparing 640d to 330i though. The former has 50hp more and doesn't it also have the ZF8? That in itself makes a huge difference to pace.

Our F20 125i has the Sport Auto version and it's quoted 0-60 is 5.9s, vs 6.7s for my E91 330i auto. That despite the 40bhp deficit.and only 150kg weight benefit (157 vs 163 bhp/t)

[ferrisbueller]

Of the 330d someone not very far away said: "Not bad for oil burner 155mph & 0 to 60 in 6.7...still prefer petrol anyday of the week! "

Of the 330i someone not very far away said: "it is a great allrounder, a lovely N/A powerplant"

Go figure!

[lord trumpton]

Having read this thread with interest it seems that in the 330i then slightly lesser powered N52 is preferred over the N53?

Mines a 2006 car with a silver top engine - I assume its the N52 then?

If the above is correct, why is the N52 3.0 the preferred one of the two

[ferrisbueller]

lord trumpton said:

Having read this thread with interest it seems that in the 330i then slightly lesser powered N52 is preferred over the N53?

Mines a 2006 car with a silver top engine - I assume its the N52 then?

If the above is correct, why is the N52 3.0 the preferred one of the two

Can't speak for others but I prefer it because there's less to go wrong and the additional cost of the N53 doesn't come with enough benefit to justify it IMO.

[stevesingo]

cerb4.5lee said:

stevesingo said:

In my household we have an E90 330i (S52) manual and an F11 535d (313ps) auto. A couple of weeks ago I met the wife at Tebay services on the M6. In the aim of science reset the journey computers on both before heading home 55mils away, 25 on the M6 and 25 on A roads and 5 in town. Both are run on V Power fuels.

Driving at the same pace within 500m of each other all the way home, the 330i did 39mpg, the 535d did 44mpg. Not a vast difference. 0.73lt. Over 440mile tank full on the 330i the difference is 5.84lt.

That just shows how much more fuel efficient the Manual is compared to the Auto in the 330i. I used to reset the computer on the 330i when I used to go from Newark to Bishops Stortford at weekends, I'd tickle it most of the way and I never saw more than 35mpg.

I expect that if the 330i had the ZF8HP auto box it would be better still.

I personally don't think the 535 is that much quicker when both are rung out. I have a couple of benchmark stretches of road where a comparison can be made. Both exit roundabouts on to long dual carriageways. There is not much in to from roundabout exit to "timing marker" between both. The 330i is only 2hp/ton down on the F11 and the F11 has a larger frontal area with a cdA of 0.71 compared to 0.67 of the E90 in M Sport spec.

Carfolio quotes a difference of only 1.3sec over a standing km in favour of the F11.

[cerb4.5lee]

ferrisbueller said:

Your appreciation of what makes a good engine seems to be oddly skewed. Equally, when 258bhp in a mid-size saloon is "slow" your expectations are clearly high (0-60 in a smidge under 6 and a 161mph limited max is still contemporary hot hatch territory 12 years down the line). An E36 M3 had 286 bhp. Is it slow and thirsty, too? Or is the S50 fondly looked at as a stonking engine?

I did genuinely always think my 330i was slow but then I'd had a string of much quicker cars before it(my TVR/Z4M/TTS/E92 M3/even my tuned 200sx all much quicker). Plus it was an Auto so 0 to 60 in only 6.6 secs...hardly fast.

I did love driving the E36 M3 my mate had years ago though funnily enough but that's more than likely rose tinted glasses. I'm sure if I got in one now I'd be pretty disappointed with its performance.

My E92 M3(most would say 414bhp is enough I'd imagine/295 ft/ib not so much!) left me flat performance wise after my Cerbera, so its about which cars you've had previously that you base things on.

So yes to me a 330i is a slow car, if I'd only ever had 1.2 Corsa though I'm sure I'd think it was a flying machine.

[cerb4.5lee]

ferrisbueller said:

Of the 330d someone not very far away said: "Not bad for oil burner 155mph & 0 to 60 in 6.7...still prefer petrol anyday of the week! "

Of the 330i someone not very far away said: "it is a great allrounder, a lovely N/A powerplant"

Go figure!

Both lovely cars for sure.

[ferrisbueller]

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

Your appreciation of what makes a good engine seems to be oddly skewed. Equally, when 258bhp in a mid-size saloon is "slow" your expectations are clearly high (0-60 in a smidge under 6 and a 161mph limited max is still contemporary hot hatch territory 12 years down the line). An E36 M3 had 286 bhp. Is it slow and thirsty, too? Or is the S50 fondly looked at as a stonking engine?

I did genuinely always think my 330i was slow but then I'd had a string of much quicker cars before it(my TVR/Z4M/TTS/E92 M3/even my tuned 200sx all much quicker). Plus it was an Auto so 0 to 60 in only 6.6 secs...hardly fast.

I did love driving the E36 M3 my mate had years ago though funnily enough but that's more than likely rose tinted glasses. I'm sure if I got in one now I'd be pretty disappointed with its performance.

My E92 M3(most would say 414bhp is enough I'd imagine/295 ft/ib not so much!) left me flat performance wise after my Cerbera, so its about which cars you've had previously that you base things on.

So yes to me a 330i is a slow car, if I'd only ever had 1.2 Corsa though I'm sure I'd think it was a flying machine.

Strange. I've plenty time spent in cars that are sub-10 to 100 and will nudge 200 and I still don't consider it slow. I think it's just about spot on for daily duties.

[zippyonline]

ferrisbueller said:

lord trumpton said:

Having read this thread with interest it seems that in the 330i then slightly lesser powered N52 is preferred over the N53?

Mines a 2006 car with a silver top engine - I assume its the N52 then?

If the above is correct, why is the N52 3.0 the preferred one of the two

Can't speak for others but I prefer it because there's less to go wrong and the additional cost of the N53 doesn't come with enough benefit to justify it IMO.

Main one iirc is the N53 is DI, the HPFP (& often injectors) fail, which is quite pricey to sort. That and having to get the inlet ports walnut blasted as they coke up and reduce power.
The N52 is port injected and generally thought of as more reliable.

[cerb4.5lee]

ferrisbueller said:

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

Your appreciation of what makes a good engine seems to be oddly skewed. Equally, when 258bhp in a mid-size saloon is "slow" your expectations are clearly high (0-60 in a smidge under 6 and a 161mph limited max is still contemporary hot hatch territory 12 years down the line). An E36 M3 had 286 bhp. Is it slow and thirsty, too? Or is the S50 fondly looked at as a stonking engine?

I did genuinely always think my 330i was slow but then I'd had a string of much quicker cars before it(my TVR/Z4M/TTS/E92 M3/even my tuned 200sx all much quicker). Plus it was an Auto so 0 to 60 in only 6.6 secs...hardly fast.

I did love driving the E36 M3 my mate had years ago though funnily enough but that's more than likely rose tinted glasses. I'm sure if I got in one now I'd be pretty disappointed with its performance.

My E92 M3(most would say 414bhp is enough I'd imagine/295 ft/ib not so much!) left me flat performance wise after my Cerbera, so its about which cars you've had previously that you base things on.

So yes to me a 330i is a slow car, if I'd only ever had 1.2 Corsa though I'm sure I'd think it was a flying machine.

Strange. I've plenty time spent in cars that are sub-10 to 100 and will nudge 200 and I still don't consider it slow. I think it's just about spot on for daily duties.

For daily duties I prefer a little more shove lower down than a 330i, so for me a 330d makes for a better daily.

If I only used a car purely for pleasure and open roads then the 330i would win the day easily.

[was8v]

I'm liking this thread. Thinking of an E91 with a petrol six.

What are the gearboxes like? Most seem to be auto. Do any have paddles (is that DCT)? Are autos engaging to drive?

Much performance difference between them? Worth holding out for a 335i or not worth the premium in the real world?

What the heck is lci?

[MajorMantra]

was8v said:

I'm liking this thread. Thinking of an E91 with a petrol six.

What are the gearboxes like? Most seem to be auto. Do any have paddles (is that DCT)? Are autos engaging to drive?

Much performance difference between them? Worth holding out for a 335i or not worth the premium in the real world?

What the heck is lci?

Can't comment on the auto box, but the manual is... pretty average. I came from a ratty Mk1 Focus and its gearbox was way nicer than the manual in my E91. It gets the job done, but it's far from lovable.

LCI = Life Cycle Impulse which is BMW's pretentious term for facelift.

[ferrisbueller]

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

Your appreciation of what makes a good engine seems to be oddly skewed. Equally, when 258bhp in a mid-size saloon is "slow" your expectations are clearly high (0-60 in a smidge under 6 and a 161mph limited max is still contemporary hot hatch territory 12 years down the line). An E36 M3 had 286 bhp. Is it slow and thirsty, too? Or is the S50 fondly looked at as a stonking engine?

I did genuinely always think my 330i was slow but then I'd had a string of much quicker cars before it(my TVR/Z4M/TTS/E92 M3/even my tuned 200sx all much quicker). Plus it was an Auto so 0 to 60 in only 6.6 secs...hardly fast.

I did love driving the E36 M3 my mate had years ago though funnily enough but that's more than likely rose tinted glasses. I'm sure if I got in one now I'd be pretty disappointed with its performance.

My E92 M3(most would say 414bhp is enough I'd imagine/295 ft/ib not so much!) left me flat performance wise after my Cerbera, so its about which cars you've had previously that you base things on.

So yes to me a 330i is a slow car, if I'd only ever had 1.2 Corsa though I'm sure I'd think it was a flying machine.

Strange. I've plenty time spent in cars that are sub-10 to 100 and will nudge 200 and I still don't consider it slow. I think it's just about spot on for daily duties.

For daily duties I prefer a little more shove lower down than a 330i, so for me a 330d makes for a better daily.

If I only used a car purely for pleasure and open roads then the 330i would win the day easily.

I use the gearbox.

I find 400+ lb.ft completely excessive for most occasions. Ditto 400+ bhp. Fun, yes, but how much can I use it? Not that often and certainly not on my commute for more than a couple of seconds at a time. Still undoubtedly nice to have now and again for a quick squirt. I've just driven home from work and in 30 miles I had a maximum of 50 yards clear tarmac in front of me.

[cerb4.5lee]

ferrisbueller said:

I've just driven home from work and in 30 miles I had a maximum of 50 yards clear tarmac in front of me.

You need a nice diesel then for that commute...one that does about 60mpg! Petrol is just too uneconomical if you can't ever use the performance.

[BaronVonVaderham]

Putting aside performance and economy for a moment, I would say that the petrol engines have far more character than the diesels. Especially the straight 6 petrols which to me sound like a BMW should - when I went to view and test drive my wife’s 330i n52 I was sold pretty much as soon as the salesman started it up as it reminded me so much of my late fathers e28 m535i.

Re headlight washers, ours were replaced at some point by a previous owner, from memory the cost was eye watering but will have a look through the history file and post the price if I can find it.

[ferrisbueller]

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

I've just driven home from work and in 30 miles I had a maximum of 50 yards clear tarmac in front of me.

You need a nice diesel then for that commute...one that does about 60mpg! Petrol is just too uneconomical if you can't ever use the performance.

Why would I want the added financial commitment and maintenance costs for a marginal benefit in economy? Give up a great petrol NA six-pot for a diesel? Wtf.

ETA. You seem to be failing to follow the thread we're in danger of going around in circles.

A 640d is quicker than a 330i. However, making that statement is as pointless as me going into any of the forums on here and stating that "my car which cost 8 times more than yours is faster than you car, so there". It smacks of needing some form of validation. In terms of relativity I frequently get out of something which could fairly be deemed to be fast back into the 330i and almost without exception reflect on what a good car it is each time I do.

Never said there the greatest car in the world but relatively speaking they are very good and they're not bad considered in isolation.

I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a spoon than burn money on a modern BMW or Merc diesel. That money can (does) do so much more for me as an enthusiast.

Further context, reflective of limitations within my own mindset, is that I genuinely cannot understand why people throw stacks of money, especially their own, into new/nearly new cars, never mind "prestige" ones which soak up big capital whether bought or leased.

Edited by ferrisbueller on Thursday 19th April 20:25

[Mr Tidy]

zippyonline said:

ferrisbueller said:

lord trumpton said:

Having read this thread with interest it seems that in the 330i then slightly lesser powered N52 is preferred over the N53?

Mines a 2006 car with a silver top engine - I assume its the N52 then?

If the above is correct, why is the N52 3.0 the preferred one of the two

Can't speak for others but I prefer it because there's less to go wrong and the additional cost of the N53 doesn't come with enough benefit to justify it IMO.

Main one iirc is the N53 is DI, the HPFP (& often injectors) fail, which is quite pricey to sort. That and having to get the inlet ports walnut blasted as they coke up and reduce power.
The N52 is port injected and generally thought of as more reliable.

Yes, that's why when I was looking for an E91 I ruled out any with the N53 engine!

Plus I love the N52 in my Z4 Coupe!

Ended up with an 06 plate 325i - I'm liking it so far. It's even proving pretty economical - OBC is currently on 36.6 mpg (mind you I don't commute).

[cerb4.5lee]

ferrisbueller said:

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

I've just driven home from work and in 30 miles I had a maximum of 50 yards clear tarmac in front of me.

You need a nice diesel then for that commute...one that does about 60mpg! Petrol is just too uneconomical if you can't ever use the performance.

Why would I want the added financial commitment and maintenance costs for a marginal benefit in economy? Give up a great petrol NA six-pot for a diesel? Wtf.

ETA. You seem to be failing to follow the thread we're in danger of going around in circles.

A 640d is quicker than a 330i. However, making that statement is as pointless as me going into any of the forums on here and stating that "my car which cost 8 times more than yours is faster than you car, so there". It smacks of needing some form of validation. In terms of relativity I frequently get out of something which could fairly be deemed to be fast back into the 330i and almost without exception reflect on what a good car it is each time I do.

Never said there the greatest car in the world but relatively speaking they are very good and they're not bad considered in isolation.

I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a spoon than burn money on a modern BMW or Merc diesel. That money can (does) do so much more for me as an enthusiast.

Further context, reflective of limitations within my own mindset, is that I genuinely cannot understand why people throw stacks of money, especially their own, into new/nearly new cars, never mind "prestige" ones which soak up big capital whether bought or leased.

Edited by ferrisbueller on Thursday 19th April 20:25

I was just comparing the two cars I had at the time both with 3 litre 6 cylinder engines that's all. I didn't have any intention of willy waving so apologies if its come across that way.

I was happy with my 330i and if I wasn't I wouldn't have kept it for 4 years. I'll stop banging on about diesels now.

[Mike335i]

I can't image there are many N53 engines with original hpfp or injectors left. Most will be revised by now so I'm not so sure he reliability is that different between them.

I think both engines are pretty good and I wouldn't actively avoid the N53.