E91 Straight Six Bearding

[ferrisbueller]

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

I've just driven home from work and in 30 miles I had a maximum of 50 yards clear tarmac in front of me.

You need a nice diesel then for that commute...one that does about 60mpg! Petrol is just too uneconomical if you can't ever use the performance.

Why would I want the added financial commitment and maintenance costs for a marginal benefit in economy? Give up a great petrol NA six-pot for a diesel? Wtf.

ETA. You seem to be failing to follow the thread we're in danger of going around in circles.

A 640d is quicker than a 330i. However, making that statement is as pointless as me going into any of the forums on here and stating that "my car which cost 8 times more than yours is faster than you car, so there". It smacks of needing some form of validation. In terms of relativity I frequently get out of something which could fairly be deemed to be fast back into the 330i and almost without exception reflect on what a good car it is each time I do.

Never said there the greatest car in the world but relatively speaking they are very good and they're not bad considered in isolation.

I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a spoon than burn money on a modern BMW or Merc diesel. That money can (does) do so much more for me as an enthusiast.

Further context, reflective of limitations within my own mindset, is that I genuinely cannot understand why people throw stacks of money, especially their own, into new/nearly new cars, never mind "prestige" ones which soak up big capital whether bought or leased.

Edited by ferrisbueller on Thursday 19th April 20:25

I was just comparing the two cars I had at the time both with 3 litre 6 cylinder engines that's all. I didn't have any intention of willy waving so apologies if its come across that way.

I was happy with my 330i and if I wasn't I wouldn't have kept it for 4 years. I'll stop banging on about diesels now.

You can carry on banging on but the comparison isn't valid.

I could give you a more valid comparison but I think it would upset you.

[Mr Tidy]

ferrisbueller said:

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

I've just driven home from work and in 30 miles I had a maximum of 50 yards clear tarmac in front of me.

You need a nice diesel then for that commute...one that does about 60mpg! Petrol is just too uneconomical if you can't ever use the performance.

Why would I want the added financial commitment and maintenance costs for a marginal benefit in economy? Give up a great petrol NA six-pot for a diesel? Wtf.

ETA. You seem to be failing to follow the thread we're in danger of going around in circles.

A 640d is quicker than a 330i. However, making that statement is as pointless as me going into any of the forums on here and stating that "my car which cost 8 times more than yours is faster than you car, so there". It smacks of needing some form of validation. In terms of relativity I frequently get out of something which could fairly be deemed to be fast back into the 330i and almost without exception reflect on what a good car it is each time I do.

Never said there the greatest car in the world but relatively speaking they are very good and they're not bad considered in isolation.

I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a spoon than burn money on a modern BMW or Merc diesel. That money can (does) do so much more for me as an enthusiast.

Further context, reflective of limitations within my own mindset, is that I genuinely cannot understand why people throw stacks of money, especially their own, into new/nearly new cars, never mind "prestige" ones which soak up big capital whether bought or leased.

Edited by ferrisbueller on Thursday 19th April 20:25

I was just comparing the two cars I had at the time both with 3 litre 6 cylinder engines that's all. I didn't have any intention of willy waving so apologies if its come across that way.

I was happy with my 330i and if I wasn't I wouldn't have kept it for 4 years. I'll stop banging on about diesels now.

You can carry on banging on but the comparison isn't valid.

I could give you a more valid comparison but I think it would upset you.

Guys, please feel free to continue comparing apples with oranges - but maybe do it somewhere else please!

It isn't really relevant here - nobody wanting an E91 is going to consider a 640d FFS!

[cerb4.5lee]

Mr Tidy said:

It isn't really relevant here - nobody wanting an E91 is going to consider a 640d FFS!

They might want a 330d/335d though, because its the same engine as the 640d.

[Patrick Bateman]

You've gone a while without lambasting the S65's torque characteristics to be fair.

[cerb4.5lee]

Patrick Bateman said:

You've gone a while without lambasting the S65's torque characteristics to be fair.

[ferrisbueller]

Patrick Bateman said:

You've gone a while without lambasting the S65's torque characteristics to be fair.

He got that in earlier.

[cerb4.5lee]

ferrisbueller said:

Patrick Bateman said:

You've gone a while without lambasting the S65's torque characteristics to be fair.

He got that in earlier.

Ferris you don't miss a trick, can we be friends please because I'm more of a lover than a fighter.

I'm at fault because this thread is about petrol straight sixes in fairness.

[ferrisbueller]

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

Patrick Bateman said:

You've gone a while without lambasting the S65's torque characteristics to be fair.

He got that in earlier.

Ferris you don't miss a trick, can we be friends please because I'm more of a lover than a fighter.

I'm at fault because this thread is about petrol straight sixes in fairness.

Ironically it isn't - it's about 6 pot BMWs.

All I've done is point out that your comparison isn't valid. You then banged on about the superiority of the 640d. Repeating the comparison doesn't make it more valid. The coin you're throwing away for bragging rights makes me wince.

[cerb4.5lee]

ferrisbueller said:

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

Patrick Bateman said:

You've gone a while without lambasting the S65's torque characteristics to be fair.

He got that in earlier.

Ferris you don't miss a trick, can we be friends please because I'm more of a lover than a fighter.

I'm at fault because this thread is about petrol straight sixes in fairness.

Ironically it isn't - it's about 6 pot BMWs.

All I've done is point out that your comparison isn't valid. You then banged on about the superiority of the 640d. Repeating the comparison doesn't make it more valid. The coin you're throwing away for bragging rights makes me wince.

The opening post of this thread is about petrol straight sixes, I couldn't give a monkeys about bragging rights. I've had petrol straight sixes and diesel straight sixes, and I'm just sharing my honest opinion of both engines that's all.

[ferrisbueller]

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

cerb4.5lee said:

ferrisbueller said:

Patrick Bateman said:

You've gone a while without lambasting the S65's torque characteristics to be fair.

He got that in earlier.

Ferris you don't miss a trick, can we be friends please because I'm more of a lover than a fighter.

I'm at fault because this thread is about petrol straight sixes in fairness.

Ironically it isn't - it's about 6 pot BMWs.

All I've done is point out that your comparison isn't valid. You then banged on about the superiority of the 640d. Repeating the comparison doesn't make it more valid. The coin you're throwing away for bragging rights makes me wince.

The opening post of this thread is about petrol straight sixes, I couldn't give a monkeys about bragging rights. I've had petrol straight sixes and diesel straight sixes, and I'm just sharing my honest opinion of both engines that's all.

Here's some food for thought. Whilst you were buying your 640d someone else spent what I imagine wouldn't be a too dissimilar amount of cash on an NA petrol engine'd car with a similar torque figure but significantly superior performance and ran a lowly six-cylinder petrol BMW as their daily. As you sit and look at the relative results of that now, one of those parties has lost a heap of cash while the other has enough net equity in their car to buy somewhere nice to live and has thoroughly enjoyed pedaling an awesome car on occasion and a lovely 6 pot BMW every day.

I know which of those positions I prefer.

[Mr Tidy]

ferrisbueller said:

Ironically it isn't - it's about 6 pot BMWs.

All I've done is point out that your comparison isn't valid. You then banged on about the superiority of the 640d. Repeating the comparison doesn't make it more valid. The coin you're throwing away for bragging rights makes me wince.

Read the thread heading - it's actually about E91 straight 6s!

BMW never made a 640d E91 did they? So in what way is 640d wonderfulness relevant to this thread?

[ferrisbueller]

Mr Tidy said:

ferrisbueller said:

Ironically it isn't - it's about 6 pot BMWs.

All I've done is point out that your comparison isn't valid. You then banged on about the superiority of the 640d. Repeating the comparison doesn't make it more valid. The coin you're throwing away for bragging rights makes me wince.

Read the thread heading - it's actually about E91 straight 6s!

BMW never made a 640d E91 did they? So in what way is 640d wonderfulness relevant to this thread?

Where have I said it is? I've repeatedly stated the comparison is pointless whilst someone else keeps trying to reinforce their point.

Threads meander about a bit, it's normal. IIRC you've mentioned Z4s a fair bit and numerous other BMWs feature. People have even posted about Porsches. You must be apoplectic.

[lord trumpton]

C'mon guys let's get back on topic and forget the squabbling

[bodhi]

Mr Tidy said:

Read the thread heading - it's actually about E91 straight 6s!

In that case I assume I can't comment on what happens if you take an E82 125i Coupe and have the 130i+ remap done?

Place I took it to are claiming 280bhp up from 218, and although I haven't had it on a rolling road, the arse dyno suspects they aren't too far away at all. Nice increase in torque also, which means being in the wrong gear is much less of an issue - as long as you have 1500 rpm+ on the dial, off it goes.

Is the N52 BMW's finest (non-M) moment in internal combustion?

[lord trumpton]

bodhi said:

Mr Tidy said:

Read the thread heading - it's actually about E91 straight 6s!

In that case I assume I can't comment on what happens if you take an E82 125i Coupe and have the 130i+ remap done?

Place I took it to are claiming 280bhp up from 218, and although I haven't had it on a rolling road, the arse dyno suspects they aren't too far away at all. Nice increase in torque also, which means being in the wrong gear is much less of an issue - as long as you have 1500 rpm+ on the dial, off it goes.

Is the N52 BMW's finest (non-M) moment in internal combustion?

It would be interesting to see before and after plots.

I've had a few NA cars mapped in the past and never really felt too much difference other than a bit sharper response. I'd liken the effect to pressing the 'sport' button a modern car; feels a touch sharper.

I'd say 218-220 would be very easy to notice. I wonder how they got there and if the power increase is across the rev range as opposed to being peaky through raising the RPM limit

[bodhi]

lord trumpton said:

bodhi said:

Mr Tidy said:

Read the thread heading - it's actually about E91 straight 6s!

In that case I assume I can't comment on what happens if you take an E82 125i Coupe and have the 130i+ remap done?

Place I took it to are claiming 280bhp up from 218, and although I haven't had it on a rolling road, the arse dyno suspects they aren't too far away at all. Nice increase in torque also, which means being in the wrong gear is much less of an issue - as long as you have 1500 rpm+ on the dial, off it goes.

Is the N52 BMW's finest (non-M) moment in internal combustion?

It would be interesting to see before and after plots.

I've had a few NA cars mapped in the past and never really felt too much difference other than a bit sharper response. I'd liken the effect to pressing the 'sport' button a modern car; feels a touch sharper.

I'd say 218-220 would be very easy to notice. I wonder how they got there and if the power increase is across the rev range as opposed to being peaky through raising the RPM limit

RPM limit is identical to before - 7000 rpm. With the 125i, BMW decided to fit the exact same powerplant as the 130i, just turned the wick down so it wouldn't tread on the toes of the newly released 135i, so the 125i remaps effectively just turn the wick back up to 130i levels, with a little extra.

Extra power seems to be everywhere, with a noticeable kick past 5000 rpm. Well worth doing if you know anyone with a 125i. I think the same can be done with a 325i, but there is a manifold swap involved as well.

[ferrisbueller]

bodhi said:

Mr Tidy said:

Read the thread heading - it's actually about E91 straight 6s!

In that case I assume I can't comment on what happens if you take an E82 125i Coupe and have the 130i+ remap done?

Place I took it to are claiming 280bhp up from 218, and although I haven't had it on a rolling road, the arse dyno suspects they aren't too far away at all. Nice increase in torque also, which means being in the wrong gear is much less of an issue - as long as you have 1500 rpm+ on the dial, off it goes.

Is the N52 BMW's finest (non-M) moment in internal combustion?

Quite.

280bhp is interesting. Recently learnt the E92 had 272bhp from its N52 and there don't appear to be mechanical differences so I could understand 218 to 272. Mapping the 330i from 258 to 272 wouldn't be worth it for me. But 218 to 272 (or indeed 280) would seem a no brainer for a 125i.

[Swervin_Mervin]

I always thought there were physical parts differences with the version in the 125/325i that limited power, rather than it just being map differences?

[ferrisbueller]

Swervin_Mervin said:

I always thought there were physical parts differences with the version in the 125/325i that limited power, rather than it just being map differences?

The implication being that the 125 has a different engine to the 325.

Not sure where such info can be found. On the ///M thread we collectively worked out a chassis number for the 272 N52 in the E92 (A subtlety which had certainly dropped out of my memory banks). Whether there's a way to deciper all of this from engine numbers is a possibility but where such a database exists outside of BMW I have no idea.

[bodhi]

Swervin_Mervin said:

I always thought there were physical parts differences with the version in the 125/325i that limited power, rather than it just being map differences?

Seems to depend on which model you have - the 125i/130i were identical, but the 325i/330i did have differences (better intake in the 330i).

And just to add to the confusion, the US Market 128i had the same intake as the 325i....