F31 335d remap - do I need to do this?
Discussion
Well I'm also coming from a perspective of the current hate on diesels.
MOT test is still simple stoich. It may not be soon.
Imagine an ecu checksum database and tools to check the ecu is untampered.
Or even ways to test EGR function (maybe an exhaust gas analyser for diesel). No tuner I've seen in up to and inc edc16 era would recalibrate/repopulate EGR to assure in-fill with inert exhaust to reduce NOX (evil compound of the century)
Again these maps might run out to higher values but they're often not refined or correct out there to be reliable.
And running into OEM limiters more often without consideration for why isn't good tuning.
Yes it stops the engine being damaged, but it's still not ideal.
You could just turn fuelling and boost off the top and let the car ride against IAT and EGT and get 420bhp in winter, then 390bhp in spring, then 370bhp in summer, etc.
It wouldn't surprise me to see a 335d and a 335d mapped at 390bhp, running the same ouput after one lap of a winding race course.
MOT test is still simple stoich. It may not be soon.
Imagine an ecu checksum database and tools to check the ecu is untampered.
Or even ways to test EGR function (maybe an exhaust gas analyser for diesel). No tuner I've seen in up to and inc edc16 era would recalibrate/repopulate EGR to assure in-fill with inert exhaust to reduce NOX (evil compound of the century)
Again these maps might run out to higher values but they're often not refined or correct out there to be reliable.
And running into OEM limiters more often without consideration for why isn't good tuning.
Yes it stops the engine being damaged, but it's still not ideal.
You could just turn fuelling and boost off the top and let the car ride against IAT and EGT and get 420bhp in winter, then 390bhp in spring, then 370bhp in summer, etc.
It wouldn't surprise me to see a 335d and a 335d mapped at 390bhp, running the same ouput after one lap of a winding race course.
Welshbeef said:
I’ve not ever heard DMS are s
te before
They offer full OEM warranty for component failure if you remap within OEM warranty “bob round the corner doesn’t”. They remap top end Sports and super Cars bob your mate wouldn’t get a look in.
They have a great reputation
What evidence do you have to say DMS are “st”? Or is it simply that they are at the high end of the market and you personally think a £300 remap is the same ?
A friend had a car mapped there. Even with DPF in place it smoked. Now back on standard software it isn't right. te beforeThey offer full OEM warranty for component failure if you remap within OEM warranty “bob round the corner doesn’t”. They remap top end Sports and super Cars bob your mate wouldn’t get a look in.
They have a great reputation
What evidence do you have to say DMS are “s
t”? Or is it simply that they are at the high end of the market and you personally think a £300 remap is the same ?Mr Whippy said:
Well I'm also coming from a perspective of the current hate on diesels.
MOT test is still simple stoich. It may not be soon.
Imagine an ecu checksum database and tools to check the ecu is untampered.
Or even ways to test EGR function (maybe an exhaust gas analyser for diesel). No tuner I've seen in up to and inc edc16 era would recalibrate/repopulate EGR to assure in-fill with inert exhaust to reduce NOX (evil compound of the century)
Again these maps might run out to higher values but they're often not refined or correct out there to be reliable.
And running into OEM limiters more often without consideration for why isn't good tuning.
Yes it stops the engine being damaged, but it's still not ideal.
You could just turn fuelling and boost off the top and let the car ride against IAT and EGT and get 420bhp in winter, then 390bhp in spring, then 370bhp in summer, etc.
It wouldn't surprise me to see a 335d and a 335d mapped at 390bhp, running the same ouput after one lap of a winding race course.
Remapping your car isn't illegal though.MOT test is still simple stoich. It may not be soon.
Imagine an ecu checksum database and tools to check the ecu is untampered.
Or even ways to test EGR function (maybe an exhaust gas analyser for diesel). No tuner I've seen in up to and inc edc16 era would recalibrate/repopulate EGR to assure in-fill with inert exhaust to reduce NOX (evil compound of the century)
Again these maps might run out to higher values but they're often not refined or correct out there to be reliable.
And running into OEM limiters more often without consideration for why isn't good tuning.
Yes it stops the engine being damaged, but it's still not ideal.
You could just turn fuelling and boost off the top and let the car ride against IAT and EGT and get 420bhp in winter, then 390bhp in spring, then 370bhp in summer, etc.
It wouldn't surprise me to see a 335d and a 335d mapped at 390bhp, running the same ouput after one lap of a winding race course.
The point of limiters is to provide safety. Which is what they'd do if in winter you can run harder for longer etc.
Welshbeef said:
xjay1337 said:
DMS are ste.
Remapping is worth it IMO.
As for component failure, zf boxes are strong.
My friend is running 900nm through an old 6 speed tiptronic zf box without issue.
You gain response everywhere. The feel of performance is huge.
My friend has an f31 335dx and he said it "felt like a rocketship" when mapped.
My own car is at 187k and twice factory HP (170hp/275lb ft and now 340hp/465lb ft).
Mechanically nothing major has failed that you wouldn't expect.
I've owned 3 cars all have been high mileage and all have been fine.
Proper tuners can tailor the package to what you want. So if you want an OEM type feel up to say 2500rpm that can be done.
My personal tuner writes all his software himself and is truly custom. He is not a large brand, he is completely independant.
If you want his contact details he is based in Windsor
I’ve not ever heard DMS are ste.Remapping is worth it IMO.
As for component failure, zf boxes are strong.
My friend is running 900nm through an old 6 speed tiptronic zf box without issue.
You gain response everywhere. The feel of performance is huge.
My friend has an f31 335dx and he said it "felt like a rocketship" when mapped.
My own car is at 187k and twice factory HP (170hp/275lb ft and now 340hp/465lb ft).
Mechanically nothing major has failed that you wouldn't expect.
I've owned 3 cars all have been high mileage and all have been fine.
Proper tuners can tailor the package to what you want. So if you want an OEM type feel up to say 2500rpm that can be done.
My personal tuner writes all his software himself and is truly custom. He is not a large brand, he is completely independant.
If you want his contact details he is based in Windsor
te beforeThey offer full OEM warranty for component failure if you remap within OEM warranty “bob round the corner doesn’t”. They remap top end Sports and super Cars bob your mate wouldn’t get a look in.
They have a great reputation
What evidence do you have to say DMS are “s
t”? Or is it simply that they are at the high end of the market and you personally think a £300 remap is the same ?I had my 330d remapped by DMS on Friday. They were a pleasure to deal with from start to finish and I'm absolutely over the moon with the transformation!
Well as I said
He paid £900 (yes, £900!) for effectively a stage 1 map.
DPF in place on their dyno it made 407.6hp.
I told him not to go there and recommended another tuner but oh well.
THE VERY NEXT DAY he messaged me.
"dude I get black smoke on hard acceleration , i didn't have the dpf removed.......contacted them they said to drive it over the weekend and give it a chance to set in".
1) with a DPF you should NOT have ANY smoke at all. DPF are restrictive and to be spewing out smoke with a DPF is totally excess fuel and likely boost to try to balance out the AFR. the backpressure would be mental.
2) cars do not magically adapt over a weekend - their immediate reaction should be "that isn't right bring it back asap" not , basically, bugger off.
Then within a week he started to get more smoke and MAF faults and later still smoking.
DMS then took the car back to stock but didn't really investigate anything else.
They didn't perform any live diagnostics or logging (that my friend mentioned)
They didn't know of / or how to perform a smoke test (to check for boost leaks).
His car is less than 25k owned from new mainly motorway use.
So yeah, excellent company.... !
He paid £900 (yes, £900!) for effectively a stage 1 map.
DPF in place on their dyno it made 407.6hp.
I told him not to go there and recommended another tuner but oh well.
THE VERY NEXT DAY he messaged me.
"dude I get black smoke on hard acceleration , i didn't have the dpf removed.......contacted them they said to drive it over the weekend and give it a chance to set in".
1) with a DPF you should NOT have ANY smoke at all. DPF are restrictive and to be spewing out smoke with a DPF is totally excess fuel and likely boost to try to balance out the AFR. the backpressure would be mental.
2) cars do not magically adapt over a weekend - their immediate reaction should be "that isn't right bring it back asap" not , basically, bugger off.
Then within a week he started to get more smoke and MAF faults and later still smoking.
DMS then took the car back to stock but didn't really investigate anything else.
They didn't perform any live diagnostics or logging (that my friend mentioned)
They didn't know of / or how to perform a smoke test (to check for boost leaks).
His car is less than 25k owned from new mainly motorway use.
So yeah, excellent company.... !
xjay1337 said:
Well as I said
He paid £900 (yes, £900!) for effectively a stage 1 map.
DPF in place on their dyno it made 407.6hp.
I told him not to go there and recommended another tuner but oh well.
THE VERY NEXT DAY he messaged me.
"dude I get black smoke on hard acceleration , i didn't have the dpf removed.......contacted them they said to drive it over the weekend and give it a chance to set in".
1) with a DPF you should NOT have ANY smoke at all. DPF are restrictive and to be spewing out smoke with a DPF is totally excess fuel and likely boost to try to balance out the AFR. the backpressure would be mental.
2) cars do not magically adapt over a weekend - their immediate reaction should be "that isn't right bring it back asap" not , basically, bugger off.
Then within a week he started to get more smoke and MAF faults and later still smoking.
DMS then took the car back to stock but didn't really investigate anything else.
They didn't perform any live diagnostics or logging (that my friend mentioned)
They didn't know of / or how to perform a smoke test (to check for boost leaks).
His car is less than 25k owned from new mainly motorway use.
So yeah, excellent company.... !
That doesn’t sound good. He paid £900 (yes, £900!) for effectively a stage 1 map.
DPF in place on their dyno it made 407.6hp.
I told him not to go there and recommended another tuner but oh well.
THE VERY NEXT DAY he messaged me.
"dude I get black smoke on hard acceleration , i didn't have the dpf removed.......contacted them they said to drive it over the weekend and give it a chance to set in".
1) with a DPF you should NOT have ANY smoke at all. DPF are restrictive and to be spewing out smoke with a DPF is totally excess fuel and likely boost to try to balance out the AFR. the backpressure would be mental.
2) cars do not magically adapt over a weekend - their immediate reaction should be "that isn't right bring it back asap" not , basically, bugger off.
Then within a week he started to get more smoke and MAF faults and later still smoking.
DMS then took the car back to stock but didn't really investigate anything else.
They didn't perform any live diagnostics or logging (that my friend mentioned)
They didn't know of / or how to perform a smoke test (to check for boost leaks).
His car is less than 25k owned from new mainly motorway use.
So yeah, excellent company.... !
However as this website is owned by a commercial company you might want to not post up any bad things about companies to avoid any recourse. (I guess MODs simply delete posts to ensure that they are covered.
xjay1337 said:
Welcome to be deleted if against the rules but that is what happened.
I'm sure there are many happy customers (I've not come across anything else overly negative) as with anything but the info I've had is not good.
I've always thought of DMS as being one of the market leaders in the remap business which is why their prices are very much top-end. However, a chap on F30post had his 335d remapped by them and, to cut a long story short, it's being returned to standard because he isn't happy with the results (jerky, unpredictable acceleration being the main problem). I'm sure there are many happy customers (I've not come across anything else overly negative) as with anything but the info I've had is not good.
I'm sure they probably have a lot of satisfied customers and I realise people are more inclined to shout about bad experiences than good ones. However, given the premium price they charge you'd think their back-up customer service would be spot-on but to judge by the bloke on F30post it leaves a bit to be desired (not returning calls, changing dates for coming to remove the remap at the last minute, etc).
I wouldn't mind paying extra if I was confident I was going to get a better product with superior back-up and customer service but if I was serious about a remap I think I've be more inclined to look at someone like Evolve or E-maps; DMS are a lot more expensive and from some of the recent reports I've read I'm not convinced the additional cost is worth it.
JNW1 said:
I've always thought of DMS as being one of the market leaders in the remap business which is why their prices are very much top-end. However, a chap on F30post had his 335d remapped by them and, to cut a long story short, it's being returned to standard because he isn't happy with the results (jerky, unpredictable acceleration being the main problem).
I'm sure they probably have a lot of satisfied customers and I realise people are more inclined to shout about bad experiences than good ones. However, given the premium price they charge you'd think their back-up customer service would be spot-on but to judge by the bloke on F30post it leaves a bit to be desired (not returning calls, changing dates for coming to remove the remap at the last minute, etc).
I wouldn't mind paying extra if I was confident I was going to get a better product with superior back-up and customer service but if I was serious about a remap I think I've be more inclined to look at someone like Evolve or E-maps; DMS are a lot more expensive and from some of the recent reports I've read I'm not convinced the additional cost is worth it.
Part of the extra cost of DMS is the full warranty they provide if any components fail due to the remap. I'm sure they probably have a lot of satisfied customers and I realise people are more inclined to shout about bad experiences than good ones. However, given the premium price they charge you'd think their back-up customer service would be spot-on but to judge by the bloke on F30post it leaves a bit to be desired (not returning calls, changing dates for coming to remove the remap at the last minute, etc).
I wouldn't mind paying extra if I was confident I was going to get a better product with superior back-up and customer service but if I was serious about a remap I think I've be more inclined to look at someone like Evolve or E-maps; DMS are a lot more expensive and from some of the recent reports I've read I'm not convinced the additional cost is worth it.
Lol DPF is for particulates, not smoke.
Smoke is just running rich to make power. Smoke = bad tuning, no need to settle in.
Smoke density is the only primary concern for road worthiness (mot), plus it looks very chavvy, so shouldn't be present unless specifically requested.
You can run down to 7:1 afr on diesel and get more power but it's like an oil fire!
Drove 335d a bit today. Not sure why you'd want to remap one.
It's a fine car, but the last thing it needs is to be faster in a line.
Smoke is just running rich to make power. Smoke = bad tuning, no need to settle in.
Smoke density is the only primary concern for road worthiness (mot), plus it looks very chavvy, so shouldn't be present unless specifically requested.
You can run down to 7:1 afr on diesel and get more power but it's like an oil fire!
Drove 335d a bit today. Not sure why you'd want to remap one.
It's a fine car, but the last thing it needs is to be faster in a line.
Mr Whippy said:
Lol DPF is for particulates, not smoke.
Smoke is just running rich to make power. Smoke = bad tuning, no need to settle in.
Smoke density is the only primary concern for road worthiness (mot), plus it looks very chavvy, so shouldn't be present unless specifically requested.
You can run down to 7:1 afr on diesel and get more power but it's like an oil fire!
Drove 335d a bit today. Not sure why you'd want to remap one.
It's a fine car, but the last thing it needs is to be faster in a line.
I’d certainly have my F10 535d faster - that’s why the D5 Alpine exists. Smoke is just running rich to make power. Smoke = bad tuning, no need to settle in.
Smoke density is the only primary concern for road worthiness (mot), plus it looks very chavvy, so shouldn't be present unless specifically requested.
You can run down to 7:1 afr on diesel and get more power but it's like an oil fire!
Drove 335d a bit today. Not sure why you'd want to remap one.
It's a fine car, but the last thing it needs is to be faster in a line.
Dunno, I'm guessing they buy in.
Trust those who do more, like Alpina who make near whole engines, or ESS who build entire FI kits and the tune for them.
People who just throw on remaps are to be less trusted imo, unless as said they're willing to explain their entire tuning logic to you.
Trust those who do more, like Alpina who make near whole engines, or ESS who build entire FI kits and the tune for them.
People who just throw on remaps are to be less trusted imo, unless as said they're willing to explain their entire tuning logic to you.
I have an e-map remapped 335 d . Very pleased with the extra power and also improved performance through the rev range . With remaps its not just about the headline figure . I had a remapped 535 d ( dms ) and when the dealer flashed the map over back to standard the difference was unbelievable - throttle response , mpg , gearshift etc should all get better with a good remap .
With a mapped 335 d you can make really good progress without going over 2000 rpm - get it over 3000 rpm and its really quick .
And unlike mapping a 2 wd car wheel spin doesn't blunt forward motion . My 335 d feels consistently quick , my previous f10 m5 quite often disappointed due to traction issues - I can't wait for the new 4wd m5 .
Oh and for those that say a 335d doesn't need / can't handle more power you can still get 320 d's you know
With a mapped 335 d you can make really good progress without going over 2000 rpm - get it over 3000 rpm and its really quick .
And unlike mapping a 2 wd car wheel spin doesn't blunt forward motion . My 335 d feels consistently quick , my previous f10 m5 quite often disappointed due to traction issues - I can't wait for the new 4wd m5 .
Oh and for those that say a 335d doesn't need / can't handle more power you can still get 320 d's you know
Ok know it’s a contentious one but have you all tried a number of tanks of premium diesel?
I have and I note
1. Less gruff noise
2. Far quieter on start up
3. Better MPG
4. Feels faster
It’s miles cheaper than basic diesel and less polluting so just on that side it’s worth the extra.
Miles cheaper than a remap totally harmless to the engine - possibly far better for it with its “cleaning agents added”.
I have and I note
1. Less gruff noise
2. Far quieter on start up
3. Better MPG
4. Feels faster
It’s miles cheaper than basic diesel and less polluting so just on that side it’s worth the extra.
Miles cheaper than a remap totally harmless to the engine - possibly far better for it with its “cleaning agents added”.
Welshbeef said:
Ok know it’s a contentious one but have you all tried a number of tanks of premium diesel?
I have and I note
1. Less gruff noise
2. Far quieter on start up
3. Better MPG
4. Feels faster
It’s miles cheaper than basic diesel and less polluting so just on that side it’s worth the extra.
Miles cheaper than a remap totally harmless to the engine - possibly far better for it with its “cleaning agents added”.
This subject has probably been done to death almost as often as winter tyres!I have and I note
1. Less gruff noise
2. Far quieter on start up
3. Better MPG
4. Feels faster
It’s miles cheaper than basic diesel and less polluting so just on that side it’s worth the extra.
Miles cheaper than a remap totally harmless to the engine - possibly far better for it with its “cleaning agents added”.
Anyway, yes I tried putting several consecutive tankfuls of premium diesel through mine (BP Ultimate and Shell V-Power) and it made no discernible difference to anything; I therefore concluded it was a waste of money and went back to regular fuel.
I can see higher octane fuels making a difference to a performance petrol car but other than that it's just placebo effect IMO; however, each to their own and if people think they gain a benefit then by all means buy the premium stuff!
ETA: And how is it "miles cheaper than basic diesel"? If you're trying to say improved mpg offsets the much higher cost per litre that's utter nonsense in my experience!
Edited by JNW1 on Tuesday 31st October 12:22
ACS are supposedly the BMW approved after market tuner with lots of experience and doesn't invalidate your BMW warranty ... however at £3,264.94 this is mightily expensive and piggy back can bus design
DMS and ecotuning have had issues with smoking according the forums, mainly because of overfuelling at such high Bhp
the main issue with a retune, is it doesn't address the rest of the performance upgrades required - alpina also beef up the air intake, cooling, changed the auto software/torque converter, suspension etc etc - all for 350bhp/700nm and 0.2s off the 0-62. Standard one, according to SRR, is around 320bhp.
When I talked to 9excellence (Indy tuner) over performance tuning packages, the retune was only part of it - they were various pre-checks on the engine/clutch, upgrades to the exhaust, larger intercoolers, larger intake, upgraded clutch etc
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