Anyone else's X3 sh1t in the snow???
Discussion
If a 4x4 that is supposed to be an off-road car can't do it out of the showroom, then why even bother with a 4WD system? I bought my rusty heap of a 4x4 so that I can get where I want when I want.
Surely, all 4x4s should be sold with some kind of off-road tyres from the outset. If people want to fit summer tyres instead, then they can.
Unless...
Surely, all 4x4s should be sold with some kind of off-road tyres from the outset. If people want to fit summer tyres instead, then they can.
Unless...
Hoofy said:
If a 4x4 that is supposed to be an off-road car can't do it out of the showroom, then why even bother with a 4WD system? I bought my rusty heap of a 4x4 so that I can get where I want when I want.
Surely, all 4x4s should be sold with some kind of off-road tyres from the outset. If people want to fit summer tyres instead, then they can.
Unless...
I would not call these a 4 x 4 though. These are SUV's more than anything. BMW is increasingly fitting xdrive to everything, so the underlying technology is just the same from platform to platform.Surely, all 4x4s should be sold with some kind of off-road tyres from the outset. If people want to fit summer tyres instead, then they can.
Unless...
It makes people "feel" safer in day to day driving than just having one axle that is powered. Whatever "safer" actually means as in my experience those are the types that forget to drive to the conditions because the electronics will sort it out....
I wonder how many who comment on here have got first hand experience of the vehicles they opine on, not so many would be my guess. Most know that Range Rover/Land Rover products are superior off road vehicles against the likes of the BMW 4x4s, what’s the point in reiterating it very time someone asks how to improve the on road performance of their SUV BMW? That’s not what was asked here.
My E70 X5 is great to drive in all winter road conditions it’s encountered on 21” Pirelli Scorpion full winters with 325 rears. I ran my E53 X5 on 20” winters and it was similarly capable. My daughter runs an X3 on 19” winters and it’s excellent in the snow and all winter conditions. The simple answer to the OP, as many have already stated, is that winter tyres are the way forward. Use all seasons if they suit your circumstances but they’re always a compromise when compared to either a winter or summer tyre in the appropriate seasons.
My E70 X5 is great to drive in all winter road conditions it’s encountered on 21” Pirelli Scorpion full winters with 325 rears. I ran my E53 X5 on 20” winters and it was similarly capable. My daughter runs an X3 on 19” winters and it’s excellent in the snow and all winter conditions. The simple answer to the OP, as many have already stated, is that winter tyres are the way forward. Use all seasons if they suit your circumstances but they’re always a compromise when compared to either a winter or summer tyre in the appropriate seasons.
Zod said:
wormus said:
aeropilot said:
Vast majority of buyers have little understanding of how things work, and its all about looks and fashion...........see my earlier post regarding when I bought my X5 in 'unfashionable' SE version, rather than the almost default M-Sport version with fashion-victim stupid size staggered summer tyres.
My neighbour has an X5 with 305 rear tyres on 20 inch rims and a 2.0d engine. Says it all really. wormus said:
Zod said:
wormus said:
aeropilot said:
Vast majority of buyers have little understanding of how things work, and its all about looks and fashion...........see my earlier post regarding when I bought my X5 in 'unfashionable' SE version, rather than the almost default M-Sport version with fashion-victim stupid size staggered summer tyres.
My neighbour has an X5 with 305 rear tyres on 20 inch rims and a 2.0d engine. Says it all really. apotts said:
PinkFatBunny said:
Thought I wouldn't have to fit winter tyres if I got an xDrive..
I guess you have just learnt that summer tyres (especially low profile, large diameter, "sporty" wide tyres) are good for just the summer. 4WD makes no difference to cornering or braking, either.Three options:
Don't "upgrade" to massive wheels when you order, but go for smaller wheels with sensible all-season tyres or,
Buy a set of winter wheels/tyres for around £1300. Not as expensive as you think, given that you are paying twice for tyres but will get a total of twice the mileage.
Slither around / crash / leave it in the garage.
http://www.mrwinterwheels.co.uk/18-bmw-x3-f25-allo...
Hoofy said:
If a 4x4 that is supposed to be an off-road car can't do it out of the showroom, then why even bother with a 4WD system? I bought my rusty heap of a 4x4 so that I can get where I want when I want.
Surely, all 4x4s should be sold with some kind of off-road tyres from the outset. If people want to fit summer tyres instead, then they can.
Unless...
...there’s a reason the cup holders are just big enough for a can of Red Bull.Surely, all 4x4s should be sold with some kind of off-road tyres from the outset. If people want to fit summer tyres instead, then they can.
Unless...
Meanwhile the door bins on my Disco and the RR can accommodate a bottle of wine in each.
wormus said:
...there’s a reason the cup holders are just big enough for a can of Red Bull.
Meanwhile the door bins on my Disco and the RR can accommodate a bottle of wine in each.
You'll be pleased therefore to hear that the same is true of the door bins in an X5. I reckon you could actually fit a magnum in there.Meanwhile the door bins on my Disco and the RR can accommodate a bottle of wine in each.
Zod said:
So that's no 4x4 unworthy of consideration, given that any 4x4 can be fitted with summer, winter or all-season tyres. Thanks for agreeing with us that BMW SUVs are as capable as your beloved Discovery on the right tyres and that your Discovery would flounder just like a BMW on the wrong tyres.
But that isn’t true is it. The BMW’s 4wd system has more in common with an Audi TT than a proper off roader. Or perhaps you are suggesting on the same, correct tyres an X5 or X3 is every bit as capable as a Land Rover, Land Cruiser or even Volvo off road? Interesting. wormus said:
Zod said:
So that's no 4x4 unworthy of consideration, given that any 4x4 can be fitted with summer, winter or all-season tyres. Thanks for agreeing with us that BMW SUVs are as capable as your beloved Discovery on the right tyres and that your Discovery would flounder just like a BMW on the wrong tyres.
But that isn’t true is it. The BMW’s 4wd system has more in common with an Audi TT than a proper off roader. Or perhaps you are suggesting on the same, correct tyres an X5 or X3 is every bit as capable as a Land Rover, Land Cruiser or even Volvo off road? Interesting. On a downhill bend near Huddersfield today after less than 1 inch of snow but fitted with Summer tyres today resulted in this , note the rears ( non driven wheels have better tread than the fronts . The structure of the van has stood up to landing on its roof but will it ever be back on the road again ? somehow I doubt it -- all for a few ££ in winter tyres PS Not me driving or passenger
Zod said:
Wills2 said:
Not sure about X3s but my M3 with winter tyres got stuck in hardly any snow.
I had 2" of snow on the drive, reversed back to the position you see below and then it refused to move just sat there spinning its wheels, you can see where I had to scrape the snow away from the drive so I could roll it back and try again.
I've used winter tyres for years and always been impressed but not that time.
Ice under the snow? I drove all the way to Sils Maria in my E60 M5 with no trouble whatsoever until the last few metres into the Waldhaus car park, which was a steep rise on which successive cars' passing had produced a smooth surface of ice under the snow. I had to get the hotel's tractor to tow me the last few metres.I had 2" of snow on the drive, reversed back to the position you see below and then it refused to move just sat there spinning its wheels, you can see where I had to scrape the snow away from the drive so I could roll it back and try again.
I've used winter tyres for years and always been impressed but not that time.
vsonix said:
AFAIK the original X5 'borrowed' a lot of technology from Land/Range Rover, BMW acquired them, pilfered a lit of the design know-how and sold the companies on fairly quickly. It's also a bit unfair to compare BMW's SAV (they don't even call them an SUV) to actual Land Rovers and Land Cruisers. They're not meant to compete directly, they know that a vast percentage of them will be driven in urban settings or by people who live in places that might be slightly harder to access with a conventional car but not actually need a full-on Defender to get to. And also they are designed in Germany, a country that legally mandates switching to specific winter tyres after a given date every year so it's fair to assume that BMW expect you to have a set of winter wheels and tyres even if it's not a legal requirement where you live.
All fair observations, and as I said earlier, BMW recognises this and fits their 4wd cars with summer rubber as a result. Yes, it can perform better on winter rubber but the 4wd system is no match for the other cars because the people who buy them don’t need it to be. Google tells me the X5 uses an electronic centre diff and open diffs for the wheels. This means it cannot vector torque to each wheel individually like the Landie.
Therefore Landie wins BMW loses and I’m right
wormus said:
vsonix said:
AFAIK the original X5 'borrowed' a lot of technology from Land/Range Rover, BMW acquired them, pilfered a lit of the design know-how and sold the companies on fairly quickly. It's also a bit unfair to compare BMW's SAV (they don't even call them an SUV) to actual Land Rovers and Land Cruisers. They're not meant to compete directly, they know that a vast percentage of them will be driven in urban settings or by people who live in places that might be slightly harder to access with a conventional car but not actually need a full-on Defender to get to. And also they are designed in Germany, a country that legally mandates switching to specific winter tyres after a given date every year so it's fair to assume that BMW expect you to have a set of winter wheels and tyres even if it's not a legal requirement where you live.
All fair observations, and as I said earlier, BMW recognises this and fits their 4wd cars with summer rubber as a result. Yes, it can perform better on winter rubber but the 4wd system is no match for the other cars because the people who buy them don’t need it to be. Google tells me the X5 uses an electronic centre diff and open diffs for the wheels. This means it cannot vector torque to each wheel individually like the Landie.
Therefore Landie wins BMW loses and I’m right
Everyone knows that if you want to drive up a mountain track, a Land Rover or Land Cruiser, with torque vectoring and greater suspension travel is what you need. This thread is about snow. The Land Rover on the same tyres has no advantage.
Granfondo said:
Did you not read the post 4 up from yours! 
Nope, but Discovery boy is getting on my tits. My X5 on these has never struggled ( Nor broke down)
This weekend, i shall be fixing a mates Disco 3, EGR Cooler leaking. Probably have to replace some oil seal or another somewhere in the near future, the gearbox judder issue will need some s
te putting in the box i suppose. It’s a common theme with Land Rover Chocolate boxes. Yes, they are designed to go off road....because it’s where they spend most of their time, waiting for the AA My 330d X Drive on Bridgestones though, is epically sheet ( still won’t break down though)
And got about ok( ish) in this lot.
Edited by Eddieslofart on Thursday 18th January 18:56
Squadrone Rosso said:
Tyres are always the limiting factor. Most current SUVs are style over substance.
X Drive isn’t known to be that competent in low grip situations or off road either.
I disagree that xDrive isn't that good. In my experience it's excellent.X Drive isn’t known to be that competent in low grip situations or off road either.
We live in St. Moritz. Currently it's about -15 at night and we've got 1m of snow in the village.
Although we have a Land Rover dealer in town most of the locals don't drive SUV type cars. In fact I suspect that there is a lower incidence of SUVs than we used to see in Zurich. A friend in Davos jokes that locals drive either BMWs or Subarus. Where we are there are lots of Audis as well.
I have a 340 xDrive touring. Of course it's on winters for 8 months of the year. It performs about as well as the Subarus I used to own. My only real concern with it is that there is a bit too much understeer on low speed turns like hairpins.
I have experience of driving a defender on snow with snow tyres and I don't rate it that highly. The big issue IMHO is that in snow you will slide. This morning going over the Julier pass at 4:30am there was sheet ice on the road covered by blown snow. It was like an ice rink. It was closed for cars without chains or AWD.
It's a lot easier to control a small light, low car than a big SUV in a slide. The Panda 4x4 is really the car you want for snow. (or a small Suzuki).
That being said if you have the right tyres you're usually OK. Someone in the village uses their 458 daily regardless of the weather and seems to do fine.
Zod said:
wormus said:
vsonix said:
AFAIK the original X5 'borrowed' a lot of technology from Land/Range Rover, BMW acquired them, pilfered a lit of the design know-how and sold the companies on fairly quickly. It's also a bit unfair to compare BMW's SAV (they don't even call them an SUV) to actual Land Rovers and Land Cruisers. They're not meant to compete directly, they know that a vast percentage of them will be driven in urban settings or by people who live in places that might be slightly harder to access with a conventional car but not actually need a full-on Defender to get to. And also they are designed in Germany, a country that legally mandates switching to specific winter tyres after a given date every year so it's fair to assume that BMW expect you to have a set of winter wheels and tyres even if it's not a legal requirement where you live.
All fair observations, and as I said earlier, BMW recognises this and fits their 4wd cars with summer rubber as a result. Yes, it can perform better on winter rubber but the 4wd system is no match for the other cars because the people who buy them don’t need it to be. Google tells me the X5 uses an electronic centre diff and open diffs for the wheels. This means it cannot vector torque to each wheel individually like the Landie.
Therefore Landie wins BMW loses and I’m right
Everyone knows that if you want to drive up a mountain track, a Land Rover or Land Cruiser, with torque vectoring and greater suspension travel is what you need. This thread is about snow. The Land Rover on the same tyres has no advantage.
Plus, it's a BMW. If it doesn't do quite what you want when you buy it, mod the bejaysus out of it till it does...
I'm sure these lads approve...
Edited by vsonix on Thursday 18th January 19:13
chandrew said:
Squadrone Rosso said:
Tyres are always the limiting factor. Most current SUVs are style over substance.
X Drive isn’t known to be that competent in low grip situations or off road either.
I disagree that xDrive isn't that good. In my experience it's excellent.X Drive isn’t known to be that competent in low grip situations or off road either.
We live in St. Moritz. Currently it's about -15 at night and we've got 1m of snow in the village.
Although we have a Land Rover dealer in town most of the locals don't drive SUV type cars. In fact I suspect that there is a lower incidence of SUVs than we used to see in Zurich. A friend in Davos jokes that locals drive either BMWs or Subarus. Where we are there are lots of Audis as well.
I have a 340 xDrive touring. Of course it's on winters for 8 months of the year. It performs about as well as the Subarus I used to own. My only real concern with it is that there is a bit too much understeer on low speed turns like hairpins.
I have experience of driving a defender on snow with snow tyres and I don't rate it that highly. The big issue IMHO is that in snow you will slide. This morning going over the Julier pass at 4:30am there was sheet ice on the road covered by blown snow. It was like an ice rink. It was closed for cars without chains or AWD.
It's a lot easier to control a small light, low car than a big SUV in a slide. The Panda 4x4 is really the car you want for snow. (or a small Suzuki).
That being said if you have the right tyres you're usually OK. Someone in the village uses their 458 daily regardless of the weather and seems to do fine.
My worst ever drive up the Julier was in a Saab hire car from Milan that was supposed to have winter tyres. It became obvious once we hit the snow that it did not. (We were on the Julier, because the Maloja was closed - long detour - at least we had the amusement of seeing the sign for
er for the first time!)My best was in 2001 in my new E46 M3 on winter tyres in a blizzard. I needed chains once we got to the steeper, windier bits, but it was a fun drive.
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff