EGR Fire - Technical Campaign - N47, B47 and N57

[48Valves]

Hopefully picking my car up on Saturday.

Which will be 4 weeks from placing a deposit.

Although, if you believe the salesman the parts were ordered before I went to look at the car!

[julian64]

My wife just dropped her 420cab diesel in for checking and its come out as needing a replacement part. Estmited six weeks


However hire car from BMW is a 440i cab with 400 miles on it. Happy days

[river_rat]

julian64 said:

My wife just dropped her 420cab diesel in for checking and its come out as needing a replacement part. Estmited six weeks


However hire car from BMW is a 440i cab with 400 miles on it. Happy days

That's a nice hire car, how did you manage that?!

My 640d was dropped into BMW this morning, waiting on the call now. Got a 630i GT as a loan car, but that will be changed if they need to keep mine whilst they await replacement part.

[48Valves]

julian64 said:

My wife just dropped her 420cab diesel in for checking and its come out as needing a replacement part. Estmited six weeks


However hire car from BMW is a 440i cab with 400 miles on it. Happy days

I'd be very surprised if that is not swapped with something from Enterprise withing a few days.

[julian64]

48Valves said:

julian64 said:

My wife just dropped her 420cab diesel in for checking and its come out as needing a replacement part. Estmited six weeks


However hire car from BMW is a 440i cab with 400 miles on it. Happy days

I'd be very surprised if that is not swapped with something from Enterprise withing a few days.

Apparently we've been told we have it for the duration

[48Valves]

julian64 said:

48Valves said:

julian64 said:

My wife just dropped her 420cab diesel in for checking and its come out as needing a replacement part. Estmited six weeks


However hire car from BMW is a 440i cab with 400 miles on it. Happy days

I'd be very surprised if that is not swapped with something from Enterprise withing a few days.

Apparently we've been told we have it for the duration

Happy days indeed

[ian in lancs]

Ninja59 said:

ian in lancs said:

It’s not the valve it’s the cooler that isn’t up to the job.

I am fully aware of that.

But part of the issue for BMW following the release of this issue is exactly as I have said BMW did not have the EGR valve and cooler as separate parts. You could only order the EGR valve and cooler as one item.

And if we are being 100% correct the B47 has suffered both EGR valve and cooler issues.

Hmm my EGR valve was replaced months ago as a single item; 3.0 X3. Same car has been in with dealer a month on monday.

[emicen]

ian in lancs said:

Ninja59 said:

ian in lancs said:

It’s not the valve it’s the cooler that isn’t up to the job.

I am fully aware of that.

But part of the issue for BMW following the release of this issue is exactly as I have said BMW did not have the EGR valve and cooler as separate parts. You could only order the EGR valve and cooler as one item.

And if we are being 100% correct the B47 has suffered both EGR valve and cooler issues.

Hmm my EGR valve was replaced months ago as a single item; 3.0 X3. Same car has been in with dealer a month on monday.

Past tense. It’s been mentioned previously on this thread and elsewhere on the net, the EGR valve and cooler were a 1 piece assembly that couldn’t be ordered individually, but this was updated to have them as separate parts. So it’s now possible to replace either part individually.

[snapster81]

Just for info...my 640d just returned after 5 weeks at sytner nottingham.

[S8QUATTRO]

snapster81 said:

Just for info...my 640d just returned after 5 weeks at sytner nottingham.

Not too bad that, mine is 7 weeks in now. I popped into the dealer this morning and still no update. Dealer could only tell me they will call me as soon as the part arrives and then have 48 hours to fit it and get the hire car back to enterprise...

The Insignia i'm in would be fine if it had another 100bhp or so

[river_rat]

My 640d is now waiting for the part.....dealer has no idea on timescale.

First impressions of the Insignia hire car aren't great!

[Ninja59]

ian in lancs said:

Hmm my EGR valve was replaced months ago as a single item; 3.0 X3. Same car has been in with dealer a month on monday.

Then chances are your whole item was replaced. It really is not so much the months, but how many miles in that time period?

I have long suspected something not "quite" right with the cooling system on these engines as over the Summer in 2018 I complained that the fan cut in occasionally (and critically for not DPF reasons).

No codes, no proof - no fault. But I had seen a steady decline in MPG over the time period of the car in my ownership. But with little real proof then it was impossible to say the cooler was the issue.

Strangely enough since my cooler replacement the MPG has shot up (it is about 2-3 MPG gain, which is about right for many when you look around the internet) and no longer have I seen/heard the fan cutting in randomly.

[ian in lancs]

Ninja59 said:

ian in lancs said:

Hmm my EGR valve was replaced months ago as a single item; 3.0 X3. Same car has been in with dealer a month on monday.

Then chances are your whole item was replaced. It really is not so much the months, but how many miles in that time period?

nope just the valve replaced 8000mls ago. Cooler from new? 54k mls

[Go Compare]

I’ve just come off the phone with my local BMW dealer. They’ve had my 640 for nine weeks now.
They have said that they don’t have much hope of receiving parts in the next few weeks.
My annoyance is increasing now. I’d contact BMW costumer services but I know that’s going to be a waste of good oxygen.
Based on what I’ve been told I’m looking at at least 12 weeks before I get my car back. I dare say I could have had a whole new car ordered, built and delivered in that time period!

[un1corn]

Update from Lloyd BMW, my part has arrived.

7 Days after going into the dealer, I'm expecting it back tomorrow.

What a coincidence that the part has arrived 3 days after I e-mailed bmw customer services explaining that i've spent £40,000 with BMW dealerships in 2 years and I wanted an upgrade from the Insignia.

Whether the fact mine was still under AUC and I've only owned it for 10 months has something to do with it aswell, I don't know.

[hilly10]

I tried to upgrade the Kadjar with Enterprise as I am sick of it, bloody Manual in traffic, they just said they are so short of cars, they having nothing to upgrade to. I will just have to keep trying and they may get a decent car returned.

[un1corn]

hilly10 said:

I tried to upgrade the Kadjar with Enterprise as I am sick of it, bloody Manual in traffic, they just said they are so short of cars, they having nothing to upgrade to. I will just have to keep trying and they may get a decent car returned.

Needless to say., BMW don't give a st.

This was the response from BMW CS today.

This came about 1hr after thd dealer told me i'd get my car back.

---

Thanks for your email about your BMW 5 Series. I’m sorry to hear that your vehicle is affected by the safety recall – I can understand your concerns.

Whilst we’re doing everything we can to reduce your inconvenience, it may be for a short period of time the loan vehicle available is not what you expected. It’s also fair to say that in some cases we simply can’t provide the exact car you want – but will do our best to keep you mobile during this time.

BMW UK wouldn’t look to upgrade or change your vehicle for a like for like.

The parts for the recall have been on back order, but are being distributed to the Centre on a regular basis. BMW are working hard to ensure they’re continued to be manufactured and delivered to the Centre’s. The parts are assigned to each vehicle individually and the Centre are in the best position to keep you updated.

Once the parts are with the Centre, they’ll look to repair you vehicle and contact you once it’s ready to collect.

I know this isn’t the answer you’re looking for and I’m sorry for any disappointment caused.

Kind regards

---

Neeldess to say, I'm happy that my car is going to be back after a week. I feel for these people who pay finance and have had a car from Enterprise for 4 months.

I'm already looking at the Merc E350 after this debacle.

Edited by un1corn on Wednesday 3rd April 01:26

[RichardJS]

un1corn said:

---

BMW are working hard to ensure they’re continued to be manufactured and delivered to the Centre’s.

Edited by un1corn on Wednesday 3rd April 01:26

Is anybody else concerned by the phrase "continued to be manufactured"?! I didn't doubt that my car would be eventually repaired - but having read that statement from BMW I'm now wondering?! Perhaps BMW should source a component from a different supplier even if it remains replacing things like the manifolds as well - it would probably cost them a lot less than continuing to pay for thousands of hire cars.

It is surprising that BMW aren't being more proactive in sorting this out - it must be costing them a fortune and doing a lot of damage to their credibility. I suspect that there'll be managers who lose their jobs over this.

Perhaps they should introduce a buy-back scheme and pay us the trade-in value for our cars - if they have my car for much longer they'll have paid out more to Enterprise than my car is worth!

[emicen]

RichardJS said:

un1corn said:

---

BMW are working hard to ensure they’re continued to be manufactured and delivered to the Centre’s.

Edited by un1corn on Wednesday 3rd April 01:26

Is anybody else concerned by the phrase "continued to be manufactured"?! I didn't doubt that my car would be eventually repaired - but having read that statement from BMW I'm now wondering?! Perhaps BMW should source a component from a different supplier even if it remains replacing things like the manifolds as well - it would probably cost them a lot less than continuing to pay for thousands of hire cars.

It is surprising that BMW aren't being more proactive in sorting this out - it must be costing them a fortune and doing a lot of damage to their credibility. I suspect that there'll be managers who lose their jobs over this.

Perhaps they should introduce a buy-back scheme and pay us the trade-in value for our cars - if they have my car for much longer they'll have paid out more to Enterprise than my car is worth!

I don't really understand your concern with the phrase. BMW will be continuing to ensure every possible shift is worked and every bit of overtime authorised, for the increased production volumes required to support new engines and replacement of defective units on existing vehicles. They're probably also expediting deliveries via airfreight around the globe rather than sea freight. That's exactly what they should be doing I would have said.

Sourcing a component from a different supplied would add months to the process. The new supplier would have to design their solution, sign it off internally, engage tooling suppliers for bids, approve the bids, have the tooling manufactured and delivered, proof the first offs of the new component and that's just taking it to the point they [supplier] are happy for it to leave their factory. BMW then have a new manufactured component, possibly completely new design, they have done absolutely no testing on, which they are supposed to roll out? We're also just assuming the finite number of suppliers who have knowledge and experience of manufacturing such components have the ability to casually add that amount of production capacity. Even once they have bought the machines/tooling needed, they need floor space and employees to man them.

The issue identified did not present itself through programme testing clearly, but at the same time, all the other aspects of the component which are not causing problems were also fine. BMW's engineers, quality assurance and supplier quality/development teams will have been all over the current supplier [Korens as I understand it] going through a complete route cause to understand how and why the failures have occurred and analysing the proposed solution.

[RichardJS]

emicen said:

I don't really understand your concern with the phrase. BMW will be continuing to ensure every possible shift is worked and every bit of overtime authorised, for the increased production volumes required to support new engines and replacement of defective units on existing vehicles. They're probably also expediting deliveries via airfreight around the globe rather than sea freight. That's exactly what they should be doing I would have said.

Sourcing a component from a different supplied would add months to the process. The new supplier would have to design their solution, sign it off internally, engage tooling suppliers for bids, approve the bids, have the tooling manufactured and delivered, proof the first offs of the new component and that's just taking it to the point they [supplier] are happy for it to leave their factory. BMW then have a new manufactured component, possibly completely new design, they have done absolutely no testing on, which they are supposed to roll out? We're also just assuming the finite number of suppliers who have knowledge and experience of manufacturing such components have the ability to casually add that amount of production capacity. Even once they have bought the machines/tooling needed, they need floor space and employees to man them.

The issue identified did not present itself through programme testing clearly, but at the same time, all the other aspects of the component which are not causing problems were also fine. BMW's engineers, quality assurance and supplier quality/development teams will have been all over the current supplier [Korens as I understand it] going through a complete route cause to understand how and why the failures have occurred and analysing the proposed solution.

The phrase worried me because it didn't say something like "as quickly as possible" - it just said "continue". But hopefully it was just clumsy wording.

We're talking about a simple little EGR valve, not a complete new engine or gearbox!!! If a supplier couldn't satisfactorily supply a company that I worked for we would find a supplier that could! Korens has supplied something that was incorrectly designed and is now incapable of ramping up production, or is unwilling to. Time to swap supplier! Sooner rather than later. BMW needs to manage the situation.