Still worth getting a diesel?

[Smuler]

REALIST123 said:

I’d be interested in seeing that calculation. What Pizza... says is true especially over the past few years when some quite efficient turbo petrol engines have appeared.

Eg, I’m getting an average of 40/41 from my 25T XF (250ps). The 530d it replaced did 44/45mpg. I’m sure the 2.0T BMW engine is equally capable.

On 12000 miles I calculate that’s about £110/120 more A YEAR. A no brainer given the smoothness of petrol and the possibly lower depreciation, potential pollution taxes (deserved or not).

20d definitely not as capable, if I'm driving it. Think I'm @38mpg ; albeit in a heavier X Drive SUV

I'd 100% go petrol for 12k miles.

[Ecosse79]

HARTLEYHARE1 said:

Reading this with a few raised eyebrows

Bought a 335 Xdrive this summer with the confidence that it will get me home in some snow and now it seems I need winter wheels and tyres

Depression guys

I have run a 335d Xdrive touring over the last 2 years with many miles last winter in heavy snow in Scotland. I had normal summer Goodyear runflats and it would pretty much go anywhere in reasonable snow even with packed ice underneath. However, stoping and cornering was a different story and required extreme caution, so I would definitely go with winters on the Xdrive for peace of mind in any kind of snow. I reckon it would be pretty much unstoppable with winters snow depth dependant....

[neil1jnr]

I had planned on never getting another diesel but here I am with a 535d for the commute, I do approx. 18k miles a year, however I didn't buy it for mpg, I bought it for comfort and easy overtaking abilities. Previously leased a 140 ecoboost Fiesta, the diesel 5 series is averaging 10mpg less but is just the better tool for the job.

[neil1jnr]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That's very good mpg, I have an older E60 and I have averaged 32mpg over about 3K miles so far... makes it appear rubbish if you could get 26mpg for a 6.3 V8! Perviouis owner of my car had it for 10 years and it feels and drives like a new car, it shouldn't be an issue to sell in a year or so if I fancy a change (to say an new 530d )

[Pizzaeatingking]

REALIST123 said:

Sheets Tabuer said:

Pizzaeatingking said:

If you're doing the miles then yeah, a diesel is still a viable option. It's the people who do 12k a year and still think a diesel is going to save them money that are slowly realising thats not really the case.

Interesting, using the calculator changing cars would save me 100 a month, only do 12k but have a heavy foot.

I’d be interested in seeing that calculation. What Pizza... says is true especially over the past few years when some quite efficient turbo petrol engines have appeared.

Eg, I’m getting an average of 40/41 from my 25T XF (250ps). The 530d it replaced did 44/45mpg. I’m sure the 2.0T BMW engine is equally capable.

On 12000 miles I calculate that’s about £110/120 more A YEAR. A no brainer given the smoothness of petrol and the possibly lower depreciation, potential pollution taxes (deserved or not).

I think 12k per annum is on the cusp of the Petrol vs Diesel if you look at just the fuel costs. It's when you consider the chance of the various emission controls fitted to the car having issues, EGR/DPF etc that the any savings are wiped out.

My uncle has had a couple of diesels, the problem was the fuel economy was never has high as expected because his commute wasn't long enough to get the engine hot for very long, plus after a year or so they'd suffer from DPF issues or the EGR valve and turbo actuator gumming up. As soon as that happened the couple of hundred quid that was saved was gone, along with more on top. Then people say 'just take it up the motorway once a week to clear it out' which starts to defeat the point in buying the diesel to save money and you're then wasting time on top.

That's not just one person either, guys at work are having the same issues and a mate runs a local garage, he was telling me how he spends so much time decoking diesels that dont get used properly. Of course if you are only doing a long commute 2 days a week or something it might work better.

My take on it for the most part is diesels still have a place but for doing mega miles, petrols are decent for many people but there's a good number of people that could save a packet with a plug in hybrid. Someone with either a sub 10 mile commute or a 20 mile commute that can charge at work could do really only use fuel for longer trips.

Lots of number crunching to do I guess, but I wouldn't base potential economy on people boasting of high MPGs on a run and I'd want to save a good chunk over the year if going for a diesel.

[Sheets Tabuer]

Great post, my car does about 24mpg but that's the way I drive it, a 225d for instance will do realistically 44mpg and give you acceptable performance, a sub 7s 0-60 and an extra 100 quid fuel saving to take the Mrs out

I do love my car but the Mrs absolutely hates it.

It's certainly a juggling act.

[Mr Tidy]

I bought my 1st BMW in 2005 when I got a car allowance and mileage for business use.

Only a diesel seemed to make sense given the HMRC mileage rates so I got an E46 320td. I had it for 3 years and 42K miles, and it averaged 47.8 mpg.

On the same scheme I swapped it for a 123d in 2008. I kept that for 6 years and 81K miles, and it averaged 48.7 mpg.

But as I stopped working in 2014 I bought the car I'd always fancied, a Z4 Coupe. It only does about 4K miles a year, is never used in the rush hour and 95% of the miles are done on 30+ mile trips on dual-carriageways/motorways - so it averages 34 mpg!

About 6 months ago I got an E91 325i as a daily, but that also never goes out in rush-hours and spends 95% of it's time on longer trips on main roads - the OBC is reading 35.7 mpg after 4K miles.

Diesel definitely still has it's place, but IMHO you really need to be doing a minimum of 12K miles a year for it to start to make sense - and I'd rather buy winter tyres than pay a premium for an X-drive. I had an E46 Compact as a daily before the E91 - I found a set of 16" wheels with Michelin Alpin winter tyres for less than £200.

[Ninja59]

Pizzaeatingking said:

I think 12k per annum is on the cusp of the Petrol vs Diesel if you look at just the fuel costs. It's when you consider the chance of the various emission controls fitted to the car having issues, EGR/DPF etc that the any savings are wiped out.

My uncle has had a couple of diesels, the problem was the fuel economy was never has high as expected because his commute wasn't long enough to get the engine hot for very long, plus after a year or so they'd suffer from DPF issues or the EGR valve and turbo actuator gumming up. As soon as that happened the couple of hundred quid that was saved was gone, along with more on top. Then people say 'just take it up the motorway once a week to clear it out' which starts to defeat the point in buying the diesel to save money and you're then wasting time on top.

That's not just one person either, guys at work are having the same issues and a mate runs a local garage, he was telling me how he spends so much time decoking diesels that dont get used properly. Of course if you are only doing a long commute 2 days a week or something it might work better.

My take on it for the most part is diesels still have a place but for doing mega miles, petrols are decent for many people but there's a good number of people that could save a packet with a plug in hybrid. Someone with either a sub 10 mile commute or a 20 mile commute that can charge at work could do really only use fuel for longer trips.

Lots of number crunching to do I guess, but I wouldn't base potential economy on people boasting of high MPGs on a run and I'd want to save a good chunk over the year if going for a diesel.

Problem is you present some of these issues as diesel specific issues which is getting less true, as some of the reasons diesels are so efficient to make petrols "better" in terms of MPG and emissions use similar overall methods.

EGR use even on petrols has increased, decoking is being seen on petrols that use direct injection with no form of port injection, added to that by using direct injection it has allowed the same issues of diesels to now become petrol related issues.

I don't deny under the right conditions that diesels will always take longer to get fully to temperature, but petrols that do not once in a while get pushed or to temperature are vulnerable to the same issues.

Equally we don't truly know currently what these 1st generation of GPF's will be like in terms of filtering out soot (all caused by the usage of direct injection again within petrols....). Using DI in petrols has had lots of knock on issues.