New 320d makes peak power at 5,500rpm

[carl_w]

GroundEffect said:

Here's a graph for the power of the B47 engine, that's in the latest 320d.


/

Is the scale right? At just over 5000 rpm it produces 0 kW of power?

[LexyLex]

Monkeylegend said:

Past performance is not a guide to future performance

It is quite a likely indicator. There are better cars within the BMW range (the 340i for instance) and better cars out there full stop. As a car lover I just cannot express enthusiasm for a car as bland and unreliable as a 320d.

[Pica-Pica]

carl_w said:

GroundEffect said:

Here's a graph for the power of the B47 engine, that's in the latest 320d.


/

Is the scale right? At just over 5000 rpm it produces 0 kW of power?

If it produces nil torque, it produces nil power. I imagine it is rev limited at that point.

[nickfrog]

LexyLex said:

Monkeylegend said:

Past performance is not a guide to future performance

It is quite a likely indicator. There are better cars within the BMW range (the 340i for instance) and better cars out there full stop. As a car lover I just cannot express enthusiasm for a car as bland and unreliable as a 320d.

People can have more than one car. A new 320d seems like a brillant proposition for a cheap commuter for mere road use and you just keep it in warranty if you're that concerned. I was in a new 520d estate yesterday. I quite literally didn't hear the engine. I imagine the 3 series NVH are not far behind. Really excellent road cars.

[Superflow]

The lease and pcp revolution has been a godsend for the German manufacturers because it has negated the reliability factor to some degree which helps them with their problematic diesel units as they reach five/six years old by which time the pcp’ers have a new version and the car is then someone else’s problem.I would like to see Audi/Bmw/Merc follow Toyota and offer a five year standard manufacturer warranty,but it won’t happen because it would cost them too much money.

[Welshbeef]

Superflow said:

The lease and pcp revolution has been a godsend for the German manufacturers because it has negated the reliability factor to some degree which helps them with their problematic diesel units as they reach five/six years old by which time the pcp’ers have a new version and the car is then someone else’s problem.I would like to see Audi/Bmw/Merc follow Toyota and offer a five year standard manufacturer warranty,but it won’t happen because it would cost them too much money.

I’ve owned 2bmws

E90 330d auto 231bhp version. It was a 56 reg and I ran it until Oct 2013. It didn’t have a single issue.

F10 535d auto 300bhp version dec2010 still have it not a single issue.

I know a couple of other people who have the F30 330d and the F30 320d (big Miles) not a single issue (well the 320d has a few accidents but reliability no issue).

So I’ve direct experience of 130k miles in 4+ year old BMW diesels and others again with no issue
Either I’m a lucky sod - no I’m not - or tinternet amplifies a non issue. I wonder if all those who have derv BMWs posted up how reliable / workhorse like their cars are then it might change your view? Then again I’ve a suspicion “u turn if you want to this lady’s not for turning”

[Limpet]

LexyLex said:

Still will be an unreliable, small, cramped, over priced pile of junk like the predecessors before it.

I put over 100k on two F30s over 5 years, and cannot relate to this at all... Apart from engine refinement, I found every aspect of both cars to be between above average and excellent. Great all rounders. Apart from an early issue with the first one that needed a control module replacing, I didn't have a single reliability issue. Neither car let me down at all.

[Superflow]

Welshbeef said:

I’ve owned 2bmws

E90 330d auto 231bhp version. It was a 56 reg and I ran it until Oct 2013. It didn’t have a single issue.

F10 535d auto 300bhp version dec2010 still have it not a single issue.

I know a couple of other people who have the F30 330d and the F30 320d (big Miles) not a single issue (well the 320d has a few accidents but reliability no issue).

So I’ve direct experience of 130k miles in 4+ year old BMW diesels and others again with no issue
Either I’m a lucky sod - no I’m not - or tinternet amplifies a non issue. I wonder if all those who have derv BMWs posted up how reliable / workhorse like their cars are then it might change your view? Then again I’ve a suspicion “u turn if you want to this lady’s not for turning”

Bmw are consistently near the bottom of all the major reliability surveys for a reason it is not a conspiracy.The collective mass denial in the UK regarding the facts around this are amusing and bizarre,They’re a good ownership prospect in the short term,but for the long term not a chance.

[Oilchange]

Important to link these claims, I have no doubt you're right btw

[Welshbeef]

Superflow said:

Bmw are consistently near the bottom of all the major reliability surveys for a reason it is not a conspiracy.The collective mass denial in the UK regarding the facts around this are amusing and bizarre,They’re a good ownership prospect in the short term,but for the long term not a chance.

As per your garage you’ve not owned a BMW as such your input is not personal experience instead Chinese’s whispers

How were the head bolts in your C63 AMG? Why did you buy such a car with a known issue?

[ericmcn]

Superflow said:

The lease and pcp revolution has been a godsend for the German manufacturers because it has negated the reliability factor to some degree which helps them with their problematic diesel units as they reach five/six years old by which time the pcp’ers have a new version and the car is then someone else’s problem.I would like to see Audi/Bmw/Merc follow Toyota and offer a five year standard manufacturer warranty,but it won’t happen because it would cost them too much money.

true, after 5 years most of these PCB dervs are f****d - in retrospect 6 cylinder petrols keep going on and on - and thats ones over 10 years old mind you

[JonDerz]

Pica-Pica said:

If it produces nil torque, it produces nil power. I imagine it is rev limited at that point.

Well that makes no sense. I had a 2016 320d as a rental and it would go round to 5k before changing up (zf 8 speed). It didn’t completely die at 4k that’s for sure.

I hate diesels but that was by far the best 4 cylinder one I’ve drove. Made the XE I jumped in afterwards feel like it ran an old VAG PD engine, awful.

[ericmcn]

Superflow said:

Bmw are consistently near the bottom of all the major reliability surveys for a reason it is not a conspiracy.The collective mass denial in the UK regarding the facts around this are amusing and bizarre,They’re a good ownership prospect in the short term,but for the long term not a chance.

lets have it in pictures, BMWs keep mechanics in a job it seems

2015 UK Survey



2016 UK Survey



2017 UK Survey



2018 UK Survey

[Osinjak]

I tell you what, the two brand new BMW 335ds that I've had over the last eight years are light years ahead in terms of reliability against my fecking RRS that I bought last November. In the eight years that I owned those cars, both spent a total of about a week in the dealership for warranty stuff and those was things like squeaky door seals or worn seat leather. Since Nov my RRS has spent six bloody weeks in my dealership having one thing after another fixed. An utter, utter pain in the arse.

Drives nice mind.

[njw1]

Osinjak said:

I tell you what, the two brand new BMW 335ds that I've had over the last eight years are light years ahead in terms of reliability against my fecking RRS that I bought last November. In the eight years that I owned those cars, both spent a total of about a week in the dealership for warranty stuff and those was things like squeaky door seals or worn seat leather. Since Nov my RRS has spent six bloody weeks in my dealership having one thing after another fixed. An utter, utter pain in the arse.

Drives nice mind.

^^^This is, I suspect, the reason BMW and a few other 'premium' brands are near the bottom of those reliability tables, if you've just spent 50k on a nice 5 series or similar you aren't going to put up with a squeaky door seal and rightly so, so it goes it in to have it sorted under warranty which will affect where the manufacturer sits in the above table, If you've gone out and spent 6k on a nice Picanto or similar and it has a bit of rattly interior trim them you'd be inclined to put up with it as it's a cheap car, hence no warranty claim and Kia sits higher in the table.

[Osinjak]

Mechanically, they were on the money, not a single issue but yes, I was irked that the Individual Merino leather started to go after about 15k miles. I optioned the crap out of the car and the list price was eye-watering but with a discount brought it down to something more respectable but still a hefty chunk of money. At that price point you expect better but thankfully they were relatively superficial problems.

On the other hand, my bd two-year old Approved Used RRS that cost 60k has had suspension problems, braking problems, crankshaft pulley problems and geometry problems. List, that thing was around 85k. I'd be mightily pissed off if I bought it new, more than I am now.

[chow pan toon]

njw1 said:

^^^This is, I suspect, the reason BMW and a few other 'premium' brands are near the bottom of those reliability tables, if you've just spent 50k on a nice 5 series or similar you aren't going to put up with a squeaky door seal and rightly so, so it goes it in to have it sorted under warranty which will affect where the manufacturer sits in the above table, If you've gone out and spent 6k on a nice Picanto or similar and it has a bit of rattly interior trim them you'd be inclined to put up with it as it's a cheap car, hence no warranty claim and Kia sits higher in the table.

Merc and Jaguar do quite a bit better and neither of them are especially .

[LexyLex]

nickfrog said:

People can have more than one car. A new 320d seems like a brillant proposition for a cheap commuter for mere road use and you just keep it in warranty if you're that concerned. I was in a new 520d estate yesterday. I quite literally didn't hear the engine. I imagine the 3 series NVH are not far behind. Really excellent road cars.

Really - I was in a 520d the other day (new G30) and the first thing that struck me was just how unrefined it was. Handsome big beast but all I could think was how coarse and noisy it was. The start stop system was very intrusive. Everyone’s hearing is different but I’m very sensitive to sound.

FYI - I have 3 cars - all of them petrol powered and each is in my view perfect for their purpose.

The LS is my main car, the Elise my “drive just to enjoy driving car” and my battered old 04 reg RAV4 my going to the shops/don’t want to get salt on the Lexus/Lotus car and for driving in the very bad weather car. The combined value of these cars isn’t much more than a loaded 320d and all play to very particular strengths that a 320d couldn’t begin to match other than fuel economy.

A 320d is neither cheap nor cheerful. Its neither fish nor foul. A petrol one would be far nicer to drive, and still cheap on gas but a 3 series is not a car (bar the M cars and big engined ones) for a car enthusiast to get excited about. Back in the day when they had LSD as options rather than extra sized satnav screens they were.

I suppose you could say the same about a LS but the sheer waftiness and serenity of the thing blows my mind and the v8 engine/suspension makes it remarkably deft for a big car. The cars engineered in a way that wows a petrol head. The lotus is a joy to drive and after this post I’m going to head out in it to clear my head!! It’s a car I cannot ever see myself parting with.

And IMHO everyone needs a clunker to hand. The RAV refuses to die and once it does I’ll find another 4wd shed.

[LexyLex]

njw1 said:

^^^This is, I suspect, the reason BMW and a few other 'premium' brands are near the bottom of those reliability tables, if you've just spent 50k on a nice 5 series or similar you aren't going to put up with a squeaky door seal and rightly so, so it goes it in to have it sorted under warranty which will affect where the manufacturer sits in the above table, If you've gone out and spent 6k on a nice Picanto or similar and it has a bit of rattly interior trim them you'd be inclined to put up with it as it's a cheap car, hence no warranty claim and Kia sits higher in the table.

Or maybe they just aren’t as good as the marketing men say... Honestly - I’ve had two LS Lexus and nothing, and I mean nothing has gone wrong with either and both are on the wrong side of 10yrs old and 100k miles. If it’s build quality of Mercedes of yesteryear you’re after and second only to Rolls Royce for refinement the LS is one to get.

Anyone I know who’s had a modern BMW, Merc has had issues. No-one I know who’s had a Toyota or Lexus has had an issue - actually that’s a lie - two years back I had to fix a sticking calliper on the RAV but in terms of quality I suspect they’re miles ahead. The Hyundai/Kia cars are good too and they’ll give you seven years warranty. Bar the Stinger and I30N there’s not much from them I’d proactively want though.

Edited by LexyLex on Saturday 4th May 19:30

[Pica-Pica]

JonDerz said:

Pica-Pica said:

If it produces nil torque, it produces nil power. I imagine it is rev limited at that point.

Well that makes no sense. I had a 2016 320d as a rental and it would go round to 5k before changing up (zf 8 speed). It didn’t completely die at 4k that’s for sure.

I hate diesels but that was by far the best 4 cylinder one I’ve drove. Made the XE I jumped in afterwards feel like it ran an old VAG PD engine, awful.

I did not say it would die at 4k. Not what I said at all. It is a physical fact that with zero torque, there will be zero power. What you experienced was a rev limit that changed the auto-box up when the torque (and thus the power at those revs) was starting to drop off sufficiently to call for an upchange.

If you have the performance indicators (torque and power dials) showing, you could see how the torque would change over the rev range.