Has anyone ever grown to like an auto?

[toon10]

I'm on my first auto since passing my test in 1992. I'd not go back to a manual for an everyday car. I have the BMW ZF 8 speed and it's way better than the manual gearbox in the M135i. It's more economical, faster and easier to live with. I don't often get to do a good run on a country lane so the slight lack of interaction/fun isn't really an issue for me. 95% of the time, it's just nicer. If I had a weekend toy which was only used for a few fun blasts then I'd opt for a manual but it would depend on the car. There are good and bad versions of both manual and auto.

I was sceptical about the performance gains of auto vs manual but it's really quite noticeable. I had a spirited acceleration test with a manual M235i from about 15/20mph to 70 ish. My car just kept on pulling away with each gear change. Both cars with the same engine. Manuals are a bit archaic these days (yes, I realise that's not a very PH thing to say.)

[RobM77]

Thanks. I can see the rationality for an auto and thanks to this thread I'm getting a clearer picture. The other thing that's becoming clearer is that the case for an auto doesn't really apply to me. I'm not interested in performance for a road car, just the process and enjoyment of driving; and I drive mainly on twisty roads and almost never in town.

[louiebaby]

I miss my E39 540iA Touring terribly. The auto box was perfect, it suited the roads in the UK and the type of motoring I did really well.

[Pica-Pica]

RobM77 said:

Thanks. I can see the rationality for an auto and thanks to this thread I'm getting a clearer picture. The other thing that's becoming clearer is that the case for an auto doesn't really apply to me. I'm not interested in performance for a road car, just the process and enjoyment of driving; and I drive mainly on twisty roads and almost never in town.

..but that will suit the right autobox. Any road conditions will suit the right autobox; but not every road condition will suit a manual.

[Pica-Pica]

RobM77 said:

Touring442 said:

That and the expense of renewing a clutch and DMF, often at lowish mileages puts me off.

I've never had to change a clutch in any of my cars; I'm not sure that's something to factor in to cost of ownership. Considering the abuse my current clutch gets with the clutch delay valve, towing a trailer and the ED's ludicrously long final drive, that says a lot about clutch longevity.

Indeed. I once changed a clutch on a 1973 Ford Escort 1100, but never since. I kept my Volvo, and then my BMW E36 for past 140k miles both on their original clutch.

[Sticks.]

RobM77 said:

Thanks. I can see the rationality for an auto and thanks to this thread I'm getting a clearer picture. The other thing that's becoming clearer is that the case for an auto doesn't really apply to me. I'm not interested in performance for a road car, just the process and enjoyment of driving; and I drive mainly on twisty roads and almost never in town.

Same sort of roads for me, but I still prefer a good auto.

So many more choices - lazy cruise mode, sport auto, or manual control/hold, paddles for quick down-shifts. Getting to know how to use your auto to get the best of it can take a while.

And, of course, the application. I thought the auto suited my 330d much better than the 330i. I'm not keen on the latest 8 speeds though, it's too many and always shifting between gears.

[996owner]

Always loved manual cars.
Had an e34 535 once (wasn't a fan) also didn't like the look to the gear selector. It reminded me of a garden how handle...

Later bought an e39 523 manual, bloody awful with the clutch delay valve. Next car e39 528 sport auto, best car I have ever owned, that car converted me to auto boxes.
I think with the state of the roads (pot holes, speed bumps ect ect) and how busy the roads are autos are the way forward. Current drive is an e90 318 manual, its ok but very tiring to drive.

[d_a_n1979]

I love my auto's no; had 4 of them in a row (BMW E38 and x3 E39s) and wouldn't have it any other way

My E39 touring is a great drive, great for long distance drives but very chuckable/driveable on a quick B road hoon when it takes my fancy TBH I wouldn't want to drive a car this size as a manual.

It'd be ok on a small sports car, an original CRX or something like an Integra DC2 that's for weekend drives and blasts only; but for every day driving, it needs to be an auto

[c3m]

I upgraded my E46 330Ci (manual), which I still own, to a 340i with the ZF8. Honestly, it's a really good box but I still miss the manual. I only do 2-3k miles a year, so not fussed about having to change gears.

But the ZF8 is super convenient when just pottering around and it makes overtaking effortless: stab the accelerator and it will go to 5k RPM and sing all the way to 7k. Put another way, the auto makes it extremely easy to go very fast.

I still drive my 330Ci occasionally and it's nice to heel & toe and play with the revs. I'd probs have another manual car next and then we're all going to be driving electric, so I've accepted it's time to move on.

[Pica-Pica]

Sticks. said:

RobM77 said:

Thanks. I can see the rationality for an auto and thanks to this thread I'm getting a clearer picture. The other thing that's becoming clearer is that the case for an auto doesn't really apply to me. I'm not interested in performance for a road car, just the process and enjoyment of driving; and I drive mainly on twisty roads and almost never in town.

Same sort of roads for me, but I still prefer a good auto.

So many more choices - lazy cruise mode, sport auto, or manual control/hold, paddles for quick down-shifts. Getting to know how to use your auto to get the best of it can take a while.

And, of course, the application. I thought the auto suited my 330d much better than the 330i. I'm not keen on the latest 8 speeds though, it's too many and always shifting between gears.

Agree with you, Sticks. However, I do not find it constantly shifting between gears on the 335d. You may find it in Sports mode on a motorway incline, it then may prefer 7th. Then again, 2nd to 7th in sport mode will usually be your 6 gears, 1st and 8th coming in in comfort mode, or 1st from a complete stand still in sport. Remember, 1st has to be low enough for towing from a standstill on a steep incline. Talking of which, our local ‘steepest road in the world’ (Ffordd Pen Llech in Harlech) is only one way down hill, at the very steepest bit. Up that sort of hill a hillhold and auto is useful. I have walked it, but not driven down it. The alternative route up to Harlech Castle is pretty steep too.

Edited by Pica-Pica on Thursday 18th July 13:53

[RobM77]

Thanks for your thoughts. To be fair, my day of trying out an auto 320d may have been jaded by the fact it had the standard suspension, and I've got used to a full Birds kit. I don't mean this to be rude, but the differences down a bumpy B road were so horrifying that it dominated the drive for me. It's possible there may have been something wrong with the car's dampers actually; it really was truly awful. I think it'd be a good idea to try an MSport car with the auto, plus of course you then get the paddle shift.

[Sticks.]

Pica-Pica said:

Agree with you, Sticks. However, I do not find it constantly shifting between gears on the 335d. You may find it in Sports mode on a motorway incline, it then may prefer 7th. Then again, 2nd to 7th in sport mode will usually be your 6 gears, 1st and 8th coming in in comfort mode, or 1st from a complete stand still in sport. Remember, 1st has to be low enough for towing from a standstill on a steep incline. Talking of which, our local ‘steepest road in the world’ (Ffordd Pen Llech in Harlech) is only one way down hill, at the very steepest bit. Up that sort of hill a hillhold and auto is useful. I have walked it, but not driven down it. The alternative route up to Harlech Castle is pretty steep too.

Edited by Pica-Pica on Thursday 18th July 13:53

Ah, I've only had 8sp in the 235, so maybe that. Defaulting to top too quickly, though perhaps how I drove it.

Yes, even my old Z4, on a hill, feet off, it holds, although I won't be testing it on that hill

[JakeT]

Strangely Rob, my driving style is similar to yours I cover a similar mileage (but I don't tow), and what do I have? A manual 330i with Birds suspension. I think I even do some driving near where you do too.

I've driven a few autos and get on with them, but it's very rare that I long for an auto. I find when I drive them, they're very accomplished, but I don't think I'd want to own one. I even like the 'old' autos that are unashamed of what they are. The fluid coupling makes for a nice experience, but not for me.

It seems you know what you like, if you want a 5 series per se, you can get the 530d with a manual up to about 2012, so there is an option for you there if you like. But I find doing so many miles, if I don't have a car I want and enjoy driving I loathe it, and it effects me outside of the car.

[RobM77]

JakeT said:

Strangely Rob, my driving style is similar to yours I cover a similar mileage (but I don't tow), and what do I have? A manual 330i with Birds suspension. I think I even do some driving near where you do too.

I've driven a few autos and get on with them, but it's very rare that I long for an auto. I find when I drive them, they're very accomplished, but I don't think I'd want to own one. I even like the 'old' autos that are unashamed of what they are. The fluid coupling makes for a nice experience, but not for me.

It seems you know what you like, if you want a 5 series per se, you can get the 530d with a manual up to about 2012, so there is an option for you there if you like. But I find doing so many miles, if I don't have a car I want and enjoy driving I loathe it, and it effects me outside of the car.

Thanks. Yes, I live in West Berks and commute down into Hampshire. It sounds like we have very similar tastes and driving routes. The 530d with a manual box (or 330d?) appeals to me greatly, but I do just under 25k miles a year, so really to get a car I can live with for 3 or 4 years and not spend a fortune on it I'd be looking for something younger when I change. I went off BMW petrol cars when DBW throttles came in, but I haven't tried one for a few years - maybe I should? Back then I walked to work and only did 8k miles a year, although now that I do 25k miles a year the difference between my 60mpg and a 330i doing 35mpg is £1800 a year, which is hard to justify - that's more than the running costs on my race car.

[Touring442]

RobM77 said:

I've never had to change a clutch in any of my cars; I'm not sure that's something to factor in to cost of ownership. Considering the abuse my current clutch gets with the clutch delay valve, towing a trailer and the ED's ludicrously long final drive, that says a lot about clutch longevity.

Is that an N47?

[Touring442]

Pica-Pica said:

Indeed. I once changed a clutch on a 1973 Ford Escort 1100, but never since. I kept my Volvo, and then my BMW E36 for past 140k miles both on their original clutch.

That's fantastic.

Not modern cars though, are they? My local BMW specialists has a nice income from rattly DMF's on modern diesels.

Oh, and I just did a clutch on an E36, 190'000 miles, original. Didn't have a dual mass flywheel fitted of course.

[JakeT]

Strangely I also do West Berks into Hampshire every day too. How odd!

I can understand that though, my 330i will do a real 35/36 on the commute, which isn't cheap. I justify it that it's cheaper than if a turbo fails on a diesel one. It might be worth seeing if you can do a 48 hour test drive from one of the manufacturers to see how their car fits into your commute and lifestyle.

Sadly the manual 330d went away when the F30 was introduced. The ZF 8hp is very good though, even if a little soul less. I find the DBG lag isn't too bad on the modern petrol ones, but I've done a load of miles in BMW's with the poor throttles, so I learnt to drive around it.

[Shaoxter]

My daily/town car will always be an auto, although that's because I live in central London. Even if it's a 5 speed E46 slushbox.

The manual rental cars I've driven generally have sloppy manual transmissions and takes 2 seconds to "blip" the throttle, can't see why anyone would bother with a manual in a normal car. Of course if it's a nice clicky gearshift and a responsive throttle pedal in a sports car, then it's a different story.

[RobM77]

Touring442 said:

RobM77 said:

I've never had to change a clutch in any of my cars; I'm not sure that's something to factor in to cost of ownership. Considering the abuse my current clutch gets with the clutch delay valve, towing a trailer and the ED's ludicrously long final drive, that says a lot about clutch longevity.

Is that an N47?

Yep. N47D20. The ED has a much longer final drive than my previous SE E90, so pulling away at junctions with a 1600kg trailer needs quite a bit of clutch use! With the delay valve meaning you can't judge things well, it can't be good for it.

[RobM77]

JakeT said:

Strangely I also do West Berks into Hampshire every day too. How odd!

I can understand that though, my 330i will do a real 35/36 on the commute, which isn't cheap. I justify it that it's cheaper than if a turbo fails on a diesel one. It might be worth seeing if you can do a 48 hour test drive from one of the manufacturers to see how their car fits into your commute and lifestyle.

Sadly the manual 330d went away when the F30 was introduced. The ZF 8hp is very good though, even if a little soul less. I find the DBG lag isn't too bad on the modern petrol ones, but I've done a load of miles in BMW's with the poor throttles, so I learnt to drive around it.

Yes, fair point. I had a turbo go on my last one, which cost £1500. Thing is, I've now done 140k miles in them over 8 years (100k in my '07 320d - a few years of low mileage then up to my current 24k pa, and 40k in my '10 320d ED) and only had that happen once - the other services have all been under £200, mostly about £130. So in 8 years that turbo cost me £190 pa, a tenth of the difference in fuel.

I'll definitely try a 330i though, thanks I must prefer petrol engines, but I've always found I just can't cope with the lag.