BMW - Just when you think it couldn't get any worse!
Discussion
I wonder how far this will go? Power increase? Different driving modes? Metallic paint?
It ties in with something I read in an interview with an engineer from a car manufacturer (I think it was Ford) who said that once all the hardware was on a car, such as cameras and distance sensors, they could develop new features just with software and make them available. Whether any of us actually need/want any of those features is another matter of course! Having said that, my current car has a reversing camera, which when I bought it I thought was pointless but I now wouldn't want to be without.
It ties in with something I read in an interview with an engineer from a car manufacturer (I think it was Ford) who said that once all the hardware was on a car, such as cameras and distance sensors, they could develop new features just with software and make them available. Whether any of us actually need/want any of those features is another matter of course! Having said that, my current car has a reversing camera, which when I bought it I thought was pointless but I now wouldn't want to be without.
RichardJS said:
I wonder how far this will go? Power increase? Different driving modes? Metallic paint?
It ties in with something I read in an interview with an engineer from a car manufacturer (I think it was Ford) who said that once all the hardware was on a car, such as cameras and distance sensors, they could develop new features just with software and make them available. Whether any of us actually need/want any of those features is another matter of course! Having said that, my current car has a reversing camera, which when I bought it I thought was pointless but I now wouldn't want to be without.
If manufacturers were really smart they would offer a free 30-trial period of a new feature with the option to subscribe at the end of the trial period.It ties in with something I read in an interview with an engineer from a car manufacturer (I think it was Ford) who said that once all the hardware was on a car, such as cameras and distance sensors, they could develop new features just with software and make them available. Whether any of us actually need/want any of those features is another matter of course! Having said that, my current car has a reversing camera, which when I bought it I thought was pointless but I now wouldn't want to be without.
CzechItOut said:
I'm confused. What's wrong with offering the ability to buy optional extras after you've purchased the car - especially if they can be deployed as a software update over the air?
Yeah this actually seems like a good idea.Also, maybe manufacturers could offer trials of the systems so you can see if you like it before purchasing?
Also - means clever enthusiasts with laptops will be able to unlock features of your car for 1/10th the price haha.
I think there will be a lot of irritating bongs as you press buttons that are not activated. All your friends will see your features are wanck
The time will come when you will be paying to open the sunroof. Also will these things just last for a limited time...eg 12 months then deactivate until paid for again. I bet that's coming too.
The time will come when you will be paying to open the sunroof. Also will these things just last for a limited time...eg 12 months then deactivate until paid for again. I bet that's coming too.
Edited by Busterbulldog on Saturday 10th August 12:21
Seems a logical extension of options being pre-wired and for example the $200 "cruise control" fitment option being in reality just the fitment of the $10 buttons that control it!
There's an American car where if you don't have auto-lights option you can remove the button and snap a plastic bit off that stops the button moving into the auto position, which is fitted and working!
There's an American car where if you don't have auto-lights option you can remove the button and snap a plastic bit off that stops the button moving into the auto position, which is fitted and working!
RichardJS said:
I wonder how far this will go? Power increase? Different driving modes? Metallic paint?
It ties in with something I read in an interview with an engineer from a car manufacturer (I think it was Ford) who said that once all the hardware was on a car, such as cameras and distance sensors, they could develop new features just with software and make them available. Whether any of us actually need/want any of those features is another matter of course! Having said that, my current car has a reversing camera, which when I bought it I thought was pointless but I now wouldn't want to be without.
They've used the very same engine in cars tuned to different power levels before.It ties in with something I read in an interview with an engineer from a car manufacturer (I think it was Ford) who said that once all the hardware was on a car, such as cameras and distance sensors, they could develop new features just with software and make them available. Whether any of us actually need/want any of those features is another matter of course! Having said that, my current car has a reversing camera, which when I bought it I thought was pointless but I now wouldn't want to be without.
I'm sure all the tuners and coders will be making a packet out of unlocking features rather than paying manufacturer prices.
This is really just the inevitable consequence of the almost limitless connectivity that the combination of the internet and 4G/5G has delivered to us, combined with cars brands/models increasingly being differentiated by marketing rather than actual physical differences.
The reason it provokes such a reaction on here is that many of us see a car than more than just transport, but in terms of 1-series (or any mainstream car) we’re in the minority. For everyone else who’s buying a BMW all this makes sense to the manufacturer as it’s easier to ‘digitally engage’ with them, so therefore easier to keep them tied to the dealer network, upsell features and then sell them a new car.
I can see this being extended to checking tyre tread depth etc and building in a full service package, people will see it as convenient. The only issue with all of this is that it becomes harder and harder to understand if you’re getting a good price compared to the competition.
Personally I can see the appeal, but it doesn’t appeal to me. I don’t own a 140i, but a big part of the appeal to me would be the six cylinder engine and rear wheel drive. Had a 130i for a bit and those things made it a characterful experience. Now they’re dropping all of that I’m not sure I’d be as keen.
That said, even though the chassis, steering, brakes etc can still change the feel of a car, I find that the latest cars are all more similar that they were in the mid-2000s, never mind the 90s.
Then again, maybe even Petrol heads don’t care as much anymore. One of the younger guys at work recently bought the hot Mercedes hatch (one below the A45). We got chatting and he was considering the Golf R and 140i as well, asked me which one I’d have. I said 140i for the drivetrain and engine, his reply was that the BMW was ugly with a dull interior and that there were loads of Golf Rs about. Fair enough, but seems image was the main consideration and didn’t even drive them all.
The reason it provokes such a reaction on here is that many of us see a car than more than just transport, but in terms of 1-series (or any mainstream car) we’re in the minority. For everyone else who’s buying a BMW all this makes sense to the manufacturer as it’s easier to ‘digitally engage’ with them, so therefore easier to keep them tied to the dealer network, upsell features and then sell them a new car.
I can see this being extended to checking tyre tread depth etc and building in a full service package, people will see it as convenient. The only issue with all of this is that it becomes harder and harder to understand if you’re getting a good price compared to the competition.
Personally I can see the appeal, but it doesn’t appeal to me. I don’t own a 140i, but a big part of the appeal to me would be the six cylinder engine and rear wheel drive. Had a 130i for a bit and those things made it a characterful experience. Now they’re dropping all of that I’m not sure I’d be as keen.
That said, even though the chassis, steering, brakes etc can still change the feel of a car, I find that the latest cars are all more similar that they were in the mid-2000s, never mind the 90s.
Then again, maybe even Petrol heads don’t care as much anymore. One of the younger guys at work recently bought the hot Mercedes hatch (one below the A45). We got chatting and he was considering the Golf R and 140i as well, asked me which one I’d have. I said 140i for the drivetrain and engine, his reply was that the BMW was ugly with a dull interior and that there were loads of Golf Rs about. Fair enough, but seems image was the main consideration and didn’t even drive them all.
Hmm...
So if the hardware for these features is there, and the software for running it is, too, and all that's downloaded is the code to unlock the features...
All it will take is for someone to crack if and then the fun starts. I foresee the ebay market for OBD adaptors opening up... Or I wonder if you could spoof whatever server the (presumably with inbuilt GSM) car is phoning 'home' to...
I mean, it's already like this with many manufacturers. I guess this iteration just has DRM wrapped around it to try to stop these features being opened up with reverse engineered software. Perhaps this is why the manufacturers were so against the US "right to repair" legislation a few years back...
So if the hardware for these features is there, and the software for running it is, too, and all that's downloaded is the code to unlock the features...
All it will take is for someone to crack if and then the fun starts. I foresee the ebay market for OBD adaptors opening up... Or I wonder if you could spoof whatever server the (presumably with inbuilt GSM) car is phoning 'home' to...
I mean, it's already like this with many manufacturers. I guess this iteration just has DRM wrapped around it to try to stop these features being opened up with reverse engineered software. Perhaps this is why the manufacturers were so against the US "right to repair" legislation a few years back...
dxg said:
Hmm...
So if the hardware for these features is there, and the software for running it is, too, and all that's downloaded is the code to unlock the features...
All it will take is for someone to crack if and then the fun starts. I foresee the ebay market for OBD adaptors opening up... Or I wonder if you could spoof whatever server the (presumably with inbuilt GSM) car is phoning 'home' to...
I mean, it's already like this with many manufacturers. I guess this iteration just has DRM wrapped around it to try to stop these features being opened up with reverse engineered software. Perhaps this is why the manufacturers were so against the US "right to repair" legislation a few years back...
Depends, if they are permanently connected to HQ they could be verifying their ‘approved state’ every hour or so, which would make coding I’m features harder rather than easier. Would also allow the manufacturer to charge for the extras all over again when the car is re-sold (or re-leased).So if the hardware for these features is there, and the software for running it is, too, and all that's downloaded is the code to unlock the features...
All it will take is for someone to crack if and then the fun starts. I foresee the ebay market for OBD adaptors opening up... Or I wonder if you could spoof whatever server the (presumably with inbuilt GSM) car is phoning 'home' to...
I mean, it's already like this with many manufacturers. I guess this iteration just has DRM wrapped around it to try to stop these features being opened up with reverse engineered software. Perhaps this is why the manufacturers were so against the US "right to repair" legislation a few years back...
Has the potential to put the manufacturer even more in control of the used market than leasing / PCP has done already.
JaredVannett said:
Just watched this about the new 1 series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buvzMlBeZWw
So now basic functions that you would expect to come with the car will be available for purchase through the iDrive store
It's not cheap either.... and bear in mind, for most of these options the car already has the 'hardware' equipped, the software purchase is simply to unlock it - so it's a bit cheeky.
Also... will the purchased options be tied to some kind of BMW user account, meaning if you sell the car the purchased functions won't work for the new owner? Hmmm.
They have been ripping off punters for donkey years, everyone seems to know that but owners themselves..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buvzMlBeZWw
So now basic functions that you would expect to come with the car will be available for purchase through the iDrive store
It's not cheap either.... and bear in mind, for most of these options the car already has the 'hardware' equipped, the software purchase is simply to unlock it - so it's a bit cheeky.
Also... will the purchased options be tied to some kind of BMW user account, meaning if you sell the car the purchased functions won't work for the new owner? Hmmm.
Edited by JaredVannett on Friday 9th August 12:46
ericmcn said:
JaredVannett said:
Just watched this about the new 1 series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buvzMlBeZWw
So now basic functions that you would expect to come with the car will be available for purchase through the iDrive store
It's not cheap either.... and bear in mind, for most of these options the car already has the 'hardware' equipped, the software purchase is simply to unlock it - so it's a bit cheeky.
Also... will the purchased options be tied to some kind of BMW user account, meaning if you sell the car the purchased functions won't work for the new owner? Hmmm.
They have been ripping off punters for donkey years, everyone seems to know that but owners themselves..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buvzMlBeZWw
So now basic functions that you would expect to come with the car will be available for purchase through the iDrive store
It's not cheap either.... and bear in mind, for most of these options the car already has the 'hardware' equipped, the software purchase is simply to unlock it - so it's a bit cheeky.
Also... will the purchased options be tied to some kind of BMW user account, meaning if you sell the car the purchased functions won't work for the new owner? Hmmm.
Edited by JaredVannett on Friday 9th August 12:46
Seriously you need help.
Three pages in and no ones thought of the potential benefits to legally ducking under the £40k higher VED threshold.
Manufacturer sells you bog standard car for say £39k then after your purchase you are free to splash out to enable extras that would have tipped you over the threshold had you needed to spec from the factory.
Not saying I'm a fan of subscription modelling but it's the way that all software providers are going (and all major car manufacturers are software providers also!)
Manufacturer sells you bog standard car for say £39k then after your purchase you are free to splash out to enable extras that would have tipped you over the threshold had you needed to spec from the factory.
Not saying I'm a fan of subscription modelling but it's the way that all software providers are going (and all major car manufacturers are software providers also!)
QuattroDave said:
Three pages in and no ones thought of the potential benefits to legally ducking under the £40k higher VED threshold.
Manufacturer sells you bog standard car for say £39k then after your purchase you are free to splash out to enable extras that would have tipped you over the threshold had you needed to spec from the factory.
Not saying I'm a fan of subscription modelling but it's the way that all software providers are going (and all major car manufacturers are software providers also!)
A bit of logic in that. Manufacturer sells you bog standard car for say £39k then after your purchase you are free to splash out to enable extras that would have tipped you over the threshold had you needed to spec from the factory.
Not saying I'm a fan of subscription modelling but it's the way that all software providers are going (and all major car manufacturers are software providers also!)
However, who is going to buy a car on PCP and then stump up thousands in cash to open options?
Driver101 said:
QuattroDave said:
Three pages in and no ones thought of the potential benefits to legally ducking under the £40k higher VED threshold.
Manufacturer sells you bog standard car for say £39k then after your purchase you are free to splash out to enable extras that would have tipped you over the threshold had you needed to spec from the factory.
Not saying I'm a fan of subscription modelling but it's the way that all software providers are going (and all major car manufacturers are software providers also!)
A bit of logic in that. Manufacturer sells you bog standard car for say £39k then after your purchase you are free to splash out to enable extras that would have tipped you over the threshold had you needed to spec from the factory.
Not saying I'm a fan of subscription modelling but it's the way that all software providers are going (and all major car manufacturers are software providers also!)
However, who is going to buy a car on PCP and then stump up thousands in cash to open options?
the s
tty thing isn't that you need to pay for options you already paid for in the purchase price of the car, the stty thing is that its a subscription, you need to pay over and over again. If you have paid for the hardware, and you pay to unlock it it should stay unlocked.
As soon as these things are out of warranty hopefully some enterprising eastern europeans will have permanent unlocking services on ebay for £30.
Unfortunately this ste will catch on and spread.
tty thing isn't that you need to pay for options you already paid for in the purchase price of the car, the stty thing is that its a subscription, you need to pay over and over again. If you have paid for the hardware, and you pay to unlock it it should stay unlocked.As soon as these things are out of warranty hopefully some enterprising eastern europeans will have permanent unlocking services on ebay for £30.
Unfortunately this s
te will catch on and spread. Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff