M140i - Stage 1 or 2?
Discussion
I am weighing up the option of stage 1 or 2 and was wondering if any of you that have gone 1 or 2 could give me an idea was it worth the jump given the fact you will need a decat/sports cat to handle the power extra power delivery.
My inner self wants to go with stage 2 as a louder sound like a V8 but no pops and bangs but this then entails a can of worms with insurance.
My sensible head knows this car out of the box is a weapon and wants to fight the roads from stock so is stage 2 wise.
Cheers.
My inner self wants to go with stage 2 as a louder sound like a V8 but no pops and bangs but this then entails a can of worms with insurance.
My sensible head knows this car out of the box is a weapon and wants to fight the roads from stock so is stage 2 wise.
Cheers.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Have a read of this, he has done some tuning and gives a good insight.
Have a read of this, he has done some tuning and gives a good insight.
Stick a BlueSpark tuning box on it, £175 and see whether you think it needs any more power than that, low outlay and can flog it if you decide to go further.
https://www.bluesparkautomotive.com/bmw-m140i-340-...
The engine is a weapon, its just the rest of it that lets it down, stage 2 is around 450 bhp, even as standard they struggle for traction and dont really handle all the power.
https://www.bluesparkautomotive.com/bmw-m140i-340-...
The engine is a weapon, its just the rest of it that lets it down, stage 2 is around 450 bhp, even as standard they struggle for traction and dont really handle all the power.
J4CKO said:
The engine is a weapon, its just the rest of it that lets it down, stage 2 is around 450 bhp, even as standard they struggle for traction and dont really handle all the power.
I agree with this.Tuning these is relatively cheap to do, and delivers impressive numbers, but I can think of many, many more occasions where the poor damping and open diff frustrated me than the amount or the nature of the performance on tap. Throwing more power at the car is simply going to show up their limitations even more.
If I had another one, I’d do dampers and diff before I even looked at a remap.
If you absolutely must have more POWAH then stage one is all you need, you have a charge cooler already and although a decat (and map) does wonders for torque, I can't be bothered with the legality/MOT hassle of a decatted car.
A stage two seems to be about +20-30bhp and +50nm of torque over stage 1. Nice numbers but less than 10% of what's already there. (a good stage one for reference will add about 90bhp with no supporting mods necessary) if you're going for a sports cat to avoid the aforementioned hassle bare in mind that EML lights still like to pop up to say hello occasional and this is significantly more expensive (I think sports cats for these are 600ish?)
Cheap handling mods like tyres and underbody bracing (if 5 door, 3 doors come from factor with it, unless your previous owner pinched them before selling it) are good value.
Mid range handling mods like springs/dampeners seem to be around £600+ fitting, the Bilstein B12 kit seems to be the favoured sweet spot.
Lastly is the big one but, arguably, the best increase in performance, an LSD will be around £2000 fitted but seems to have unanimous positive reviews whether you go BMW MSport or Quaife.
A stage two seems to be about +20-30bhp and +50nm of torque over stage 1. Nice numbers but less than 10% of what's already there. (a good stage one for reference will add about 90bhp with no supporting mods necessary) if you're going for a sports cat to avoid the aforementioned hassle bare in mind that EML lights still like to pop up to say hello occasional and this is significantly more expensive (I think sports cats for these are 600ish?)
Cheap handling mods like tyres and underbody bracing (if 5 door, 3 doors come from factor with it, unless your previous owner pinched them before selling it) are good value.
Mid range handling mods like springs/dampeners seem to be around £600+ fitting, the Bilstein B12 kit seems to be the favoured sweet spot.
Lastly is the big one but, arguably, the best increase in performance, an LSD will be around £2000 fitted but seems to have unanimous positive reviews whether you go BMW MSport or Quaife.
Thank you for all your quick responses. I find this forum my go to for car related queries other forums ignore my novice cry for help.
I think from what you have all said the power increase is minimal and the issues that surround having that extra increase are not justifiable. I think I am going to go stage 1 but 100% look at handling mods like the B12 & Diff.
I think I would of been more inclined to take the risk if the power could be put down but I know being bone stock its having issues holding the roads as it is.
I am not interested in the tuning boxes but Wrench is where I will be taking it.
I think from what you have all said the power increase is minimal and the issues that surround having that extra increase are not justifiable. I think I am going to go stage 1 but 100% look at handling mods like the B12 & Diff.
I think I would of been more inclined to take the risk if the power could be put down but I know being bone stock its having issues holding the roads as it is.
I am not interested in the tuning boxes but Wrench is where I will be taking it.
Personally, I'd be chucking the money at the handling etc.
Mine is a bit better with the brace and springs but I still can't help thinking that the last thing the stock chassis needs is more power. The B12 kit is very popular with guys on BabyBMW as is the LSD. I'd be going down that route personally first.
The uunderbody brace is pretty good for £140 or so.
Mine is a bit better with the brace and springs but I still can't help thinking that the last thing the stock chassis needs is more power. The B12 kit is very popular with guys on BabyBMW as is the LSD. I'd be going down that route personally first.
The uunderbody brace is pretty good for £140 or so.
An LSD is definitely something I am contemplating but like most the money factor is the issue.
I may start with the B12 and under body brace to begin with. Has anyone had any experiencing driving with this kit on compared to without? Also one thing I was keen to know would this cancel out the adaptive suspension?
I may start with the B12 and under body brace to begin with. Has anyone had any experiencing driving with this kit on compared to without? Also one thing I was keen to know would this cancel out the adaptive suspension?
I've got a 340i which has similar shortcomings as the rest of the 40i family. It's got the power and sound kit, so putting out around 380-390 bhp and even with that it's crying out for a LSD. I've put some Bilstein coilovers on it so it doesn't corner like the QE2 now, next will be a diff then I'll start looking at more power.
As for how far to go, I think I'll end up with a sports cat (too old for decats & the legalities of them) and map to suit, mainly for the extra noise more than anything else, it doesn't need any more power tbh but it's always nice
As for how far to go, I think I'll end up with a sports cat (too old for decats & the legalities of them) and map to suit, mainly for the extra noise more than anything else, it doesn't need any more power tbh but it's always nice
Forgive my innocence regarding stage 1, 2 or 3 nonsense, as far as I can tell that's a tuners way of charging 3 times more for very little extra work. I fitted my own intercooler and charge pipe on my N54 335i I got off ebay for a 150 and 120 quid for charge pipe or what ever it was, PMP installed the turbo intake pipes while they done my turbos for an extra 100 quid and I got it booked in for a custom remap on a rolling road Friday for the price of £320... Now my point is that using BMW specialists chart as a guide, a stage 1 is uprated air filters and remap to get 370bhp (or so), stage 2 is uprated air intake system and intercooler to get 415(ish) bhp and stage 3, all the bells and whistles decat, charge pipe and turbo intake pipes to get 440bhp so there fore charging loads more for a couple of extra parts that I payed a few quid for and done it myself. Now its generic maps that they are putting on your car so cant prove the quoted results, so allow for exaggeration, so mine would fit in somewhere in between stage 2 and 3 as I have more done than stage 2 but lack the decats on the stage 3, but I get the benefit of a printout and not paying a tuner thousands for what I done for less than a grand. But the main thing is I'll have a custom remap that lots of people on here agree is the best way to go.
I already know as it happens that the upgrades I've done make a massive difference as I have a JB4 box that I inherited with the car set on auto remap, so I switch it off and i get the standard power and turn it on and it seems twice as quick as it auto tunes allowing for the upgrades, But my tail pipes are sooty as a result of the rich running of a generic map so want it off the car. So I cant wait to see what I get on the rolling road from the few quid I have spent, minus what I get for the box. Happy days!!
I already know as it happens that the upgrades I've done make a massive difference as I have a JB4 box that I inherited with the car set on auto remap, so I switch it off and i get the standard power and turn it on and it seems twice as quick as it auto tunes allowing for the upgrades, But my tail pipes are sooty as a result of the rich running of a generic map so want it off the car. So I cant wait to see what I get on the rolling road from the few quid I have spent, minus what I get for the box. Happy days!!
https://www.bmspecialists.co.uk/vehicle_model/spec...
I hope you can see that link, now I recon they want thousands for the stage 3. I should get somewhere close for less that a grand (if you believe those figures). Me thinks they are charging for pressing a few buttons on a pc for the sake for a few hundred quids worth of mechanical upgrades, but no more buttons than on the stage 1. I hope someone can enlighten me as to why these things seem to have to be done in stages??
I hope you can see that link, now I recon they want thousands for the stage 3. I should get somewhere close for less that a grand (if you believe those figures). Me thinks they are charging for pressing a few buttons on a pc for the sake for a few hundred quids worth of mechanical upgrades, but no more buttons than on the stage 1. I hope someone can enlighten me as to why these things seem to have to be done in stages??
Andy70 said:
https://www.bmspecialists.co.uk/vehicle_model/spec...
I hope you can see that link, now I recon they want thousands for the stage 3. I should get somewhere close for less that a grand (if you believe those figures). Me thinks they are charging for pressing a few buttons on a pc for the sake for a few hundred quids worth of mechanical upgrades, but no more buttons than on the stage 1. I hope someone can enlighten me as to why these things seem to have to be done in stages??
There's a degree of marketing crap there but it tends to be upgrading a part that releases a significant increase in power or sometimes just groups of parts that make sense to all be upgraded together. The B58 will push out 420-440bhp from a remap with no other mods. Adding a downpipe will up that to 460-470bhp, so a significant increase. I've not seen any packages past that point but the HPFP upgrade gets it up around the 500bhp mark. I hope you can see that link, now I recon they want thousands for the stage 3. I should get somewhere close for less that a grand (if you believe those figures). Me thinks they are charging for pressing a few buttons on a pc for the sake for a few hundred quids worth of mechanical upgrades, but no more buttons than on the stage 1. I hope someone can enlighten me as to why these things seem to have to be done in stages??
Shopping about makes sense, as long as corners aren't cut. My mate has no end of people turn up for mapping at his garage only to find they've fitted knock off parts and it either doesn't make the power or just outright can't cope with what's asked from them.
You just need to keep it simple, I had my 240 Cabrio remapped by a well known independent for very little outlay. Fully stock car, and is now 430bhp and 630NM. The power is subtle, and I don't have any issues my end. I read nothing but internet experts instructing that you "must" do this and "have to" do that, dampers, suspension, LSD etc. I have none of the above and don't care for any of it either.
It is what it is, a fast cruiser, so why try and make more of it If you want a sublime handling track weapon, buy a different car. If you want to unlock the B58 and allow it to be what it should have been out the factory, then remap it, but don't overthink it and don't spend thousands on geometry when the gains are minimal bearing in mind what the car is.
It maybe a 1 series thing over a 2 series, but I don't find I have any of the "problems" people harp on about with the 140.
It is what it is, a fast cruiser, so why try and make more of it If you want a sublime handling track weapon, buy a different car. If you want to unlock the B58 and allow it to be what it should have been out the factory, then remap it, but don't overthink it and don't spend thousands on geometry when the gains are minimal bearing in mind what the car is.
It maybe a 1 series thing over a 2 series, but I don't find I have any of the "problems" people harp on about with the 140.
Armchair_Expert said:
You just need to keep it simple, I had my 240 Cabrio remapped by a well known independent for very little outlay. Fully stock car, and is now 430bhp and 630NM. The power is subtle, and I don't have any issues my end. I read nothing but internet experts instructing that you "must" do this and "have to" do that, dampers, suspension, LSD etc. I have none of the above and don't care for any of it either.
It is what it is, a fast cruiser, so why try and make more of it If you want a sublime handling track weapon, buy a different car. If you want to unlock the B58 and allow it to be what it should have been out the factory, then remap it, but don't overthink it and don't spend thousands on geometry when the gains are minimal bearing in mind what the car is.
It maybe a 1 series thing over a 2 series, but I don't find I have any of the "problems" people harp on about with the 140.
It seems to affect the 1 series more than the 2 series, so I can only assume that there are differences in the suspension set up / chassis set up etc.It is what it is, a fast cruiser, so why try and make more of it If you want a sublime handling track weapon, buy a different car. If you want to unlock the B58 and allow it to be what it should have been out the factory, then remap it, but don't overthink it and don't spend thousands on geometry when the gains are minimal bearing in mind what the car is.
It maybe a 1 series thing over a 2 series, but I don't find I have any of the "problems" people harp on about with the 140.
Stock my car isn’t too bad and by the time it does get a bit squiffy, you’re really pushing on so a bouncy back end is the last of your worries. Personally I’d try and sort those issues before adding any more power.
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