F30 vs G20. What’s better?
Discussion
Super_G said:
I made a really tough decision yesterday. Decided to throw in the towel on the G20. Personally for me I don’t think it’s the game changer it is made out to be. First year (and first world) problems aside, it’s not a massive leap forward. The suspension is a marked improvement but as said the iDrive is needlessly complicated, the dash cluttered, it feels numbing to drive and, soulless. If I could sum it up in a word it has no soul and feels anything but BMW. It’s good BMW have managed to keep handling and fun in mind for a car of this shape/size but I don’t jive with it and I think BMW performance is amiss. That’s what people may want in a car of this class. Something that can rival a C class for comfort. Had it since new and never really connected to it. No matter how hard I tried. It never excited me. I never felt happy to see it parked on the driveway. It’s a boring car. Period. Yesterday, the left active grill stopped working. The replacement? A 4 gran coupe, 440i. It will be nice to have electric memory seats as I forgot to tick the box on those. May be if the G20 was in manual guise I may have felt different. It’s a great car but not the car for me I am afraid. The sequential turbo trick of the old E series works well to a point. May be I just have a syndrome about 4 pots being lesser than 6. Typical BMW woman driver that I am about how size matters.
Good luck with the new car.
OP,
Does the new Gran Coupe have the "soul" that you were looking for? I know this seems to be a complaint on a lot of modern cars, they are too insulated and electric steering can be a bit wooden.
Hopefully the G20 has put some of the soul back in, as it does make all the difference between a good car and a bad car.
I have an old 3 series (2003 E46 325i) and it has plenty of "soul", all the touch points are nicely weighted, no iDrive, no fancy tech to go wrong (plenty of old tech to go wrong though
)
I do know that the interiors on the E46's were better than the later F30's. Haven't been in a later G20 though.
Does the new Gran Coupe have the "soul" that you were looking for? I know this seems to be a complaint on a lot of modern cars, they are too insulated and electric steering can be a bit wooden.
Hopefully the G20 has put some of the soul back in, as it does make all the difference between a good car and a bad car.
I have an old 3 series (2003 E46 325i) and it has plenty of "soul", all the touch points are nicely weighted, no iDrive, no fancy tech to go wrong (plenty of old tech to go wrong though
)I do know that the interiors on the E46's were better than the later F30's. Haven't been in a later G20 though.
Olivergt said:
OP,
Does the new Gran Coupe have the "soul" that you were looking for? I know this seems to be a complaint on a lot of modern cars, they are too insulated and electric steering can be a bit wooden.
Hopefully the G20 has put some of the soul back in, as it does make all the difference between a good car and a bad car.
I have an old 3 series (2003 E46 325i) and it has plenty of "soul", all the touch points are nicely weighted, no iDrive, no fancy tech to go wrong (plenty of old tech to go wrong though )
I do know that the interiors on the E46's were better than the later F30's. Haven't been in a later G20 though.
I still have my ex-husbands E46 330ci!!! So I totally agree with the comments on the E46. Yes I think with a bit of TLC the GC can be a great car. May be ACS RS. Let’s see. Out of the box it’s not bad at all. Does the new Gran Coupe have the "soul" that you were looking for? I know this seems to be a complaint on a lot of modern cars, they are too insulated and electric steering can be a bit wooden.
Hopefully the G20 has put some of the soul back in, as it does make all the difference between a good car and a bad car.
I have an old 3 series (2003 E46 325i) and it has plenty of "soul", all the touch points are nicely weighted, no iDrive, no fancy tech to go wrong (plenty of old tech to go wrong though
)I do know that the interiors on the E46's were better than the later F30's. Haven't been in a later G20 though.
The G20 is so numb. The acoustic glass reduces noise. It just feels boring though. Then I thought gosh if all these bits are going wrong now imagine life out of warranty. It’s a shame. It’s great to look at. Might not be to everyone’s taste but it’s an example of too many electric nannies taking away from a true experience.
I read on here a while ago and it was quite true... BMW fans always kick up a stink when a new model comes out. How it’s not as good as the previous gen. Then people come around to the idea. Certain cars can get overhyped. The G20 had a lot of media for its Lexus design queues. Anyhow time to eat tea. Must dash.
Super_G said:
I made a really tough decision yesterday. Decided to throw in the towel on the G20. Personally for me I don’t think it’s the game changer it is made out to be. First year (and first world) problems aside, it’s not a massive leap forward. The suspension is a marked improvement but as said the iDrive is needlessly complicated, the dash cluttered, it feels numbing to drive and, soulless. If I could sum it up in a word it has no soul and feels anything but BMW. It’s good BMW have managed to keep handling and fun in mind for a car of this shape/size but I don’t jive with it and I think BMW performance is amiss. That’s what people may want in a car of this class. Something that can rival a C class for comfort. Had it since new and never really connected to it. No matter how hard I tried. It never excited me. I never felt happy to see it parked on the driveway. It’s a boring car. Period. Yesterday, the left active grill stopped working. The replacement? A 4 gran coupe, 440i. It will be nice to have electric memory seats as I forgot to tick the box on those. May be if the G20 was in manual guise I may have felt different. It’s a great car but not the car for me I am afraid. The sequential turbo trick of the old E series works well to a point. May be I just have a syndrome about 4 pots being lesser than 6. Typical BMW woman driver that I am about how size matters.
You’re going to love the B58 motor of the 440i. It’s pretty special. Edited by Super_G on Tuesday 16th February 10:53
Super_G said:
Less electronic gremlins too. In the span of 1 year... my virtual live dash has died... cured with a software update... my keys stopped working... receiver and ring antenna replaced... two new keys provided... the auto hold had a mind of it’s own and was coming on even when not selected... a drivers mirror refused to unfold... the air con feels weak... the HK amp (RAM) was replaced under a PUMA as the bass cut out. I have had many BMW’s in the past but this takes the biscuit. The following day I had a medical appointment but couldn’t use the car and had to ask a neighbour for help. We don’t have Uber in rural Devon.
The virtual Live dash was down to a bad OTA update that could brick the cars. The mirrors are super common but bmw refuse to provide both are replaced until they are broken. One owner had his break on day 1, another got the driver side replaced only for the passenger to break the following day.
The amp issue seems common as well.
It is staggering that these basic fundamentals seem to be getting worse not better. As an owner of 640D I even find the G30 5 series penny pinching in some areas and the recent G20 I had I must admit I thought it was a step back from the F30's I had driven. In pure tech, it was a step on, but in so many ways it was a highly frustrating experience to drive around in the hvac system in particular for me the designer(s) should try to use whilst on the move.
As for the laser lights I honestly did not notice much rwal world difference.
Enjoy the 4 series GC driven a few and whilst the interior was not quite a 6 I enjoyed the smaller dimensions and slightly less weight than the 6.
Ninja59 said:
Super_G said:
Less electronic gremlins too. In the span of 1 year... my virtual live dash has died... cured with a software update... my keys stopped working... receiver and ring antenna replaced... two new keys provided... the auto hold had a mind of it’s own and was coming on even when not selected... a drivers mirror refused to unfold... the air con feels weak... the HK amp (RAM) was replaced under a PUMA as the bass cut out. I have had many BMW’s in the past but this takes the biscuit. The following day I had a medical appointment but couldn’t use the car and had to ask a neighbour for help. We don’t have Uber in rural Devon.
The virtual Live dash was down to a bad OTA update that could brick the cars. The mirrors are super common but bmw refuse to provide both are replaced until they are broken. One owner had his break on day 1, another got the driver side replaced only for the passenger to break the following day.
The amp issue seems common as well.
It is staggering that these basic fundamentals seem to be getting worse not better. As an owner of 640D I even find the G30 5 series penny pinching in some areas and the recent G20 I had I must admit I thought it was a step back from the F30's I had driven. In pure tech, it was a step on, but in so many ways it was a highly frustrating experience to drive around in the hvac system in particular for me the designer(s) should try to use whilst on the move.
As for the laser lights I honestly did not notice much rwal world difference.
Enjoy the 4 series GC driven a few and whilst the interior was not quite a 6 I enjoyed the smaller dimensions and slightly less weight than the 6.
Ninja59 said:
Super_G said:
Less electronic gremlins too. In the span of 1 year... my virtual live dash has died... cured with a software update... my keys stopped working... receiver and ring antenna replaced... two new keys provided... the auto hold had a mind of it’s own and was coming on even when not selected... a drivers mirror refused to unfold... the air con feels weak... the HK amp (RAM) was replaced under a PUMA as the bass cut out. I have had many BMW’s in the past but this takes the biscuit. The following day I had a medical appointment but couldn’t use the car and had to ask a neighbour for help. We don’t have Uber in rural Devon.
The virtual Live dash was down to a bad OTA update that could brick the cars. The mirrors are super common but bmw refuse to provide both are replaced until they are broken. One owner had his break on day 1, another got the driver side replaced only for the passenger to break the following day.
The amp issue seems common as well.
It is staggering that these basic fundamentals seem to be getting worse not better. As an owner of 640D I even find the G30 5 series penny pinching in some areas and the recent G20 I had I must admit I thought it was a step back from the F30's I had driven. In pure tech, it was a step on, but in so many ways it was a highly frustrating experience to drive around in the hvac system in particular for me the designer(s) should try to use whilst on the move.
As for the laser lights I honestly did not notice much rwal world difference.
Enjoy the 4 series GC driven a few and whilst the interior was not quite a 6 I enjoyed the smaller dimensions and slightly less weight than the 6.
RammyMP said:
Ninja59 said:
Super_G said:
Less electronic gremlins too. In the span of 1 year... my virtual live dash has died... cured with a software update... my keys stopped working... receiver and ring antenna replaced... two new keys provided... the auto hold had a mind of it’s own and was coming on even when not selected... a drivers mirror refused to unfold... the air con feels weak... the HK amp (RAM) was replaced under a PUMA as the bass cut out. I have had many BMW’s in the past but this takes the biscuit. The following day I had a medical appointment but couldn’t use the car and had to ask a neighbour for help. We don’t have Uber in rural Devon.
The virtual Live dash was down to a bad OTA update that could brick the cars. The mirrors are super common but bmw refuse to provide both are replaced until they are broken. One owner had his break on day 1, another got the driver side replaced only for the passenger to break the following day.
The amp issue seems common as well.
It is staggering that these basic fundamentals seem to be getting worse not better. As an owner of 640D I even find the G30 5 series penny pinching in some areas and the recent G20 I had I must admit I thought it was a step back from the F30's I had driven. In pure tech, it was a step on, but in so many ways it was a highly frustrating experience to drive around in the hvac system in particular for me the designer(s) should try to use whilst on the move.
As for the laser lights I honestly did not notice much rwal world difference.
Enjoy the 4 series GC driven a few and whilst the interior was not quite a 6 I enjoyed the smaller dimensions and slightly less weight than the 6.
I started a separate conversation in general gassing how technology is taking away from driver experience.
The A6 is nice. Shame you have problems with that.
Good luck with your decision when you do change.
By the time the lci model is out most issues would have been ironed out one hopes.
Edited by Super_G on Sunday 21st February 21:16
Super_G said:
I think if you know a decent service department and have time/patience to get things fixed then the findings seem to be that once things are fixed they generally don’t seem to be going wrong again.
I started a separate conversation in general gassing how technology is taking away from driver experience.
The A6 is nice. Shame you have problems with that.
Good luck with your decision when you do change.
By the time the lci model is out most issues would have been ironed out one hopes.
The LCI cars will get the new ix drive screen and setup, in fact lci x6 prototypes are already around, 2 years since production began, I suppose the X5 will at least be 3 into before lci.I started a separate conversation in general gassing how technology is taking away from driver experience.
The A6 is nice. Shame you have problems with that.
Good luck with your decision when you do change.
By the time the lci model is out most issues would have been ironed out one hopes.
Edited by Super_G on Sunday 21st February 21:16
What is scary is how short lived each version of drive is getting, combine this with the haphazard interiors, it is just disappointing. I never use half the gimmicks bmw has integrated so why bother? Yet a bloody essential system like an actual functioning mirror...well.
I would agree once things are fixed, but by god are you right time, money, stress sometimes makes me think twice and getting another, but all recent BMW's seem to have the same or different levels of problems.
I do wonder when the BMW model cull begins though the 8 series and Z4 have already been pretty much been said to have no replacements.
I just got rid of my G20 320i after barely 4 months. To be fair, I was coming from an M car, so saying it was slow is stating the obvious.
Likes - looks, interior, build quality, handling and balance
Dislikes - slow, gearbox was very jerky, a god awful ride (19”s with adaptive suspension and Michelin PS4). Perhaps it’s just because we seem to have incredibly bad roads around where we are, but it really wasn’t comfortable at slow speeds.
My old F gen 340i rode much much better. (18”s, adaptives and Michelin PS4).
So, I thought the newer car was better in most areas, but ride comfort for me is a big one if it’s a daily. I am sure if you had a six cylinder, that would help with the gearbox ‘issue’.
I like the idea of a new 340i/d. But after this experience, I won’t bother - the suspension will most likely be even worse than the cooking version.
Likes - looks, interior, build quality, handling and balance
Dislikes - slow, gearbox was very jerky, a god awful ride (19”s with adaptive suspension and Michelin PS4). Perhaps it’s just because we seem to have incredibly bad roads around where we are, but it really wasn’t comfortable at slow speeds.
My old F gen 340i rode much much better. (18”s, adaptives and Michelin PS4).
So, I thought the newer car was better in most areas, but ride comfort for me is a big one if it’s a daily. I am sure if you had a six cylinder, that would help with the gearbox ‘issue’.
I like the idea of a new 340i/d. But after this experience, I won’t bother - the suspension will most likely be even worse than the cooking version.
I understand your dilemma
To the point where I’m considering keeping by 335d with 100+k as a beater, as I’m going back to petrol since the 340d is PMHEV and requires pig p*ss - both of which can be problematic.
The G20 tech and high quality interior beat the F30 hands down, but maybe not the performance and 50+mpg - particularly with a light tune.
I’m not totally convinced the ride with both on adaptive is noticeably any better, and certainly the handling is as numb as ever.
Styling wise, at least in my eyes, it’s not an improvement; more something different.
If you can get past the now low rent interior and aging tech, the 335d is a very comfortable mile muncher and real hoot on track while able to keep nailed to back of most sporty machinery - especially in the wet.
To the point where I’m considering keeping by 335d with 100+k as a beater, as I’m going back to petrol since the 340d is PMHEV and requires pig p*ss - both of which can be problematic.
The G20 tech and high quality interior beat the F30 hands down, but maybe not the performance and 50+mpg - particularly with a light tune.
I’m not totally convinced the ride with both on adaptive is noticeably any better, and certainly the handling is as numb as ever.
Styling wise, at least in my eyes, it’s not an improvement; more something different.
If you can get past the now low rent interior and aging tech, the 335d is a very comfortable mile muncher and real hoot on track while able to keep nailed to back of most sporty machinery - especially in the wet.
People think the F30 is low rent need to look at other manufacturers.
Additionally and honestly, whilst I think some elements of the interior feel nice I do wonder and having driven one round more creaks in the new g20 than the old f30.
Add the same note to G30's and F10's the build quality and parts in places feel better but long term I doubt it.
Additionally and honestly, whilst I think some elements of the interior feel nice I do wonder and having driven one round more creaks in the new g20 than the old f30.
Add the same note to G30's and F10's the build quality and parts in places feel better but long term I doubt it.
Ninja59 said:
People think the F30 is low rent need to look at other manufacturers.
Additionally and honestly, whilst I think some elements of the interior feel nice I do wonder and having driven one round more creaks in the new g20 than the old f30.
Add the same note to G30's and F10's the build quality and parts in places feel better but long term I doubt it.
I’m clearly in the minority, bit I don’t have an issue with the F series interiors. Yes the latest ones are nicer, but I don’t sit on my car and think it’s poor or really dated. The tech is fine for what I need (pro nav, CarPlay etc).Additionally and honestly, whilst I think some elements of the interior feel nice I do wonder and having driven one round more creaks in the new g20 than the old f30.
Add the same note to G30's and F10's the build quality and parts in places feel better but long term I doubt it.
The only bit of my F31 that seems 'cheap' (compared to the rest of the interior) is the scratchy sun visors.
Everywhere else is either leather or alcantara.
Yes, the storage bins on the doors are hard plastic, but they'll get kicked a bit so understand the cheaper materials there...although my Z4MC has leather over those too (even though they're only large enough to hold a spliff).
Everywhere else is either leather or alcantara.
Yes, the storage bins on the doors are hard plastic, but they'll get kicked a bit so understand the cheaper materials there...although my Z4MC has leather over those too (even though they're only large enough to hold a spliff).
I had a G30 touring as a rental in a couple of years ago and all of this discussion applied to that too, it was very competent and comfortable, but nothing about it was driver focussed or fun. It was numb, heavy and with the 20d engine not that quick either.
I had an E90 335i at the time and I was happy to get back into that, despite it being the older tech (CIC idrive etc) it was fine for me.
I now have CCC idrive in the M6 and that is properly dated and slow, but still useable enough and at least the car is quite interesting to drive. Just goes to show, if it's driving you like, the quality of the tech is just fluff that doesn't really make too much difference.
I had an E90 335i at the time and I was happy to get back into that, despite it being the older tech (CIC idrive etc) it was fine for me.
I now have CCC idrive in the M6 and that is properly dated and slow, but still useable enough and at least the car is quite interesting to drive. Just goes to show, if it's driving you like, the quality of the tech is just fluff that doesn't really make too much difference.
I don't understand why people are so focussed on quickly aging "tech" or things like soft vs hard plastic around the cabin as indications of "better". But aspects such as comfort / vibrations / noise are not brought into the mix.
And on this note, isn't one of the main improvements in G20 vs F30 the rolling refinement? From my (4hrs) experience a pre-LCI F31, it had a lot of road and wind noise making conversation even at ~70mph difficult front to rear.
From what I've read this is much improved in the G20/1? Genuine question, as I'd love an F31 but would be very dissapointed if its noisier than my E39. I do long road-trips where, over many hours driving, noise is one of the large elements of fatigue.
And on this note, isn't one of the main improvements in G20 vs F30 the rolling refinement? From my (4hrs) experience a pre-LCI F31, it had a lot of road and wind noise making conversation even at ~70mph difficult front to rear.
From what I've read this is much improved in the G20/1? Genuine question, as I'd love an F31 but would be very dissapointed if its noisier than my E39. I do long road-trips where, over many hours driving, noise is one of the large elements of fatigue.
RiccardoG said:
I don't understand why people are so focussed on quickly aging "tech" or things like soft vs hard plastic around the cabin as indications of "better". But aspects such as comfort / vibrations / noise are not brought into the mix.
And on this note, isn't one of the main improvements in G20 vs F30 the rolling refinement? From my (4hrs) experience a pre-LCI F31, it had a lot of road and wind noise making conversation even at ~70mph difficult front to rear.
From what I've read this is much improved in the G20/1? Genuine question, as I'd love an F31 but would be very dissapointed if its noisier than my E39. I do long road-trips where, over many hours driving, noise is one of the large elements of fatigue.
I think part of the issues around plastic quality is the rattles that come from it. The softer stuff absorbs a lot of this, especially if you have something hard in the door pockets or glove box. If the pocket is softer/rubbery/lined plastic then this is muted somewhat.And on this note, isn't one of the main improvements in G20 vs F30 the rolling refinement? From my (4hrs) experience a pre-LCI F31, it had a lot of road and wind noise making conversation even at ~70mph difficult front to rear.
From what I've read this is much improved in the G20/1? Genuine question, as I'd love an F31 but would be very dissapointed if its noisier than my E39. I do long road-trips where, over many hours driving, noise is one of the large elements of fatigue.
Also 'noise' is very subjective. I don't find my Z4MC with aftermarket exhausts particularly noisy/creaky/rattly, but other owners bemoan their unmodified Z4s. Nor do I find the lower mileage F30 any noisier/quieter than the e46 it replaced - except for some the cabin rattles from harder plastics in the F30 where the e46 had more leather - but that would probably be down to spec differences rather than a model difference.
RiccardoG said:
From what I've read this is much improved in the G20/1? Genuine question, as I'd love an F31 but would be very dissapointed if its noisier than my E39. I do long road-trips where, over many hours driving, noise is one of the large elements of fatigue.
My girlfriend has a F30 330d and I have a F11 530d, same engine, same generation of car. The wind noise in the F30 above 50mph is quite noticeable and actually annoying above 70mph. Even the engine noise is harsher at lower speeds. The F11 is very very quiet and refined in comparison. I had an E39 540i and I know you'd be disappointed in the F30\31 if that's what you're hoping for. 330d is still a great car and wish my F11 had X-Drive. No experience of the G20/21, but have driven a few G30's and they are very similar to the F10/F11 in terms of refinement, not much in it, but I'd think\hope the new G20/21 is a jump above the F30, much like the F10\11 was to the E60/61 (and I had two of those).
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