RE: Turbo Beemer is on its way
Discussion
Carbon Black said:
If the n/a M3 CSL can put out 350bhp, then i am sure a fettled turbocharged 330 can put out 450bhp.
Why bother with a V8 M3 or V10 M5?
450bhp in a 'sleeper' would be a scream.
>> Edited by Carbon Black on Friday 10th February 09:49
It would be worth getting a 318 badge for the back just to really hack people off.
Carbon Black said:
If the n/a M3 CSL can put out 350bhp, then i am sure a fettled turbocharged 330 can put out 450bhp.
Why bother with a V8 M3 or V10 M5?
450bhp in a 'sleeper' would be a scream.
>> Edited by Carbon Black on Friday 10th February 09:49
That's why the weight of the M3 might come into play. Looking at all the spy shots of the E92 Coupe, it looks to be around 4.6-4.7m long (the E90 saloon is 4.5m) and unless BMW have used some trick lightweight materials I can see the coupe being 1600+kg and the Convertible (with it's folding metal top) being nearer 1800kg. Which is frankly ridiculous for a 3-series. I hope I'm proved wrong. That would hamper it's performance. If they used some of the CSLs build appraoches for the M3 then perhaps this could stay around the same weight as the current M3.
They may use this 335i to satisfy 'most' of the aspirational buyers looking for a top 3-series, then make the M3 more driver focused and pricey to allow them to be clearly differentiated in terms of performance and dynamics. They need to do something like this, otherwise they've shot themselves in the foot.
r988 said:
Hmmmm... Chipped 335i Sport vs. impending M3 V8 - which will be faster ?
We can then have a 20 page "turbo petrol" vs. "N/A petrol" thread.
Similar to the Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo vs XR8 arguments, Turbo wins every time really unless you bolt on a blower to the V8, only thing the V8 really has in its advantage is that it sounds better.
With a V8 M3 though it will be a bit different as the whole car will have been tweaked by the M boys into a finley tuned beast in comparison to a standard production 335Ci which will probably be more straight line hero in comparison.
A turbo M3 on the other hand
More interesting would be seeing this engine in the 5 series as a new 535i where it could provide and interesting alternative the the V8 models, still has the power if you need it, but without all the extra capacity if you are cruising along at low rpms or stuck in traffic.
The whole ereason the XR6 Turbo flogs the XR8 is weight and that damn rev limiter. If the XR8s engine was lighter, not only would it go faster in a straight line, but handle better too. The Boss V8 is tall and cast iron, not to mention the heavy quad-cam heads, so it is very front heavy. add to that it's low-revving undersquare dimensions and that hard-cut limiter, and it is a really difficult car to drive. The reason people buy the XR8 over the faster and cheaper XR6T is because of the sound. Though I must say the F6 is an awesome car. And it's got more torque than the 290kW GT...
astrsxi77 said:
DIESEL IS NOT THE REAL DRIVER'S CHOICE.....END OF DISCUSSION.
It amazes my how people are prepared to pay X-Thousand pounds for a badge (see X5/A6/5-series/3-series blah blah) and yet spec a Diesel because of the minmal economy gains. Do you really care? By buying a diesel, you certainly aren't bothered about how the car drives. I care becasue I have to breath in the shite coming out of the other end!!! Who thesaid Diesels are cleaner than petrol? And who really gives a monkies about C02, an unproven cause of "global warming." There's nothing unproven about Carcinogens and Cancer!
Diesels don't rev, are heavy and noisier..."Yes, but my 535d is whisper quiet and I don't have to change gear to overtake you!"
Yeh, that's because it's carrying 200kgs of sound proofing in addtion to hefty engine, thus negating a good slug of the potential economy gains. And why don't you just get a bleeding auto if you don't like changing gear! Plus your Status Badge sounds like a TRACTOR.....
Oh yeh, the 330i Turbo? Whoopee; sounds like BM have finally succumed (sp?) to the fasion for Turbo everything.
Well said
fnegroni said:
I too despise the diesel technology in anything other than trains and lorries.
My neighbour is a BMW engineer, usually comes home at the weekend with something new or not yet released (new facelifted 7 series a year ago, an M6 two weeks ago).
Maybe I'll ask him when he comes home with the 335i.
Will post some pictures when he does! :-)
I wasn't aware that BMW had any ENGINEERS at Berkshire......
Very poorly put, actually, in the main.
Certainly the new 3-series petrol turbo could turn out to be a real sleeper, once the tuners get their hands on it. Quite frankly, the new M5 could have a real fight on it's hands if the engine is easily and cheaply tweaked to around 450 bhp, more than possible with a turbocharged engine of 3000cc capacity.
As far as the derv point goes, that is just feeble forumming and ranks alongside trolling, quite frankly.
Largely incorrect musings and somewhat outdated thinking.
Certainly the new 3-series petrol turbo could turn out to be a real sleeper, once the tuners get their hands on it. Quite frankly, the new M5 could have a real fight on it's hands if the engine is easily and cheaply tweaked to around 450 bhp, more than possible with a turbocharged engine of 3000cc capacity.
As far as the derv point goes, that is just feeble forumming and ranks alongside trolling, quite frankly.
Largely incorrect musings and somewhat outdated thinking.
m12_nathan said:
The alternative is to say that it is absolutely bang on, diesel is not the entusiasts choice of fuel as it is not as much fun to drive. (and I have driven them, give me a nice revvy na engione any day).
Runs away from a potential 40 pager
Don't start.
For what it's worth, I think it's a good thing that BMW have developed this Bi-turbo six since it will force them to make the next M3 'even better'.
m12_nathan said:I think we've had enough from the last thread. You might not enjoy them, but plenty of enthusiasts do. So give it a rest...
The alternative is to say that it is absolutely bang on, diesel is not the entusiasts choice of fuel as it is not as much fun to drive. (and I have driven them, give me a nice revvy na engione any day).
Runs away from a potential 40 pager
I said this earlier in the thread, but the new V8 M3 is going to have to be a stonker if it's not going to be blown away by a chipped 335i.
Pricing speculation:
Delta between 530d and 535d is 4K for going one turbo to 2, so you'd expect delta from 330i to 335i to be more since you're going from no turbos to 2.
330i M-sport saloon is about 32K list, so surely that's going to put the 335Ci at, what, 37-38K ? That's a lot for a 3-er without the real M- "cachet".
The new M3 has to be considerably more or they wouldn't sell any 335Cis, so I wonder if the V8 M3 will be pitched at the new RS4, somewhere around 48-50K
Re 535d being 4k more than 530d - it also includes auto gearbox and some other stuff as standard, so not really a fair comparison for the twin turbo only. Besides, the petrol twin turbo looks a lot simpler (cheaper) than the diesel sequential since it's just two little turbos in parallel.
danny
danny
You need to remind yourself of why BMW said they were making the 335i. At the time they were looking to fill the gap between 330i and M3, which was too big a gap. Also mentioned was the intention to move the M3 up-market and specifically distance the 3 series Coupe (originally planned to be called 4 series) upwards from the 3 series saloon, as BMW already do with the 6-series and the 5-series. For all these reasons it would be easy to imagine the 330 Coupe being somewhere in the £37-39k range (remember it has 330bhp and around 320lb/ft). The M3 will then most likely be priced just above the Audi RS4, with Coupe being slightly higher (so perhaps £53-53k). I've got an order down for an E92 CSL which will only be made in Coupe guise, and I expect that will be somewhere in the early £60ks.
BMW are determined to take their established models further up market to create room for the higher volume 1 and 2 series models.
BMW are determined to take their established models further up market to create room for the higher volume 1 and 2 series models.
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