Dealer...large bill not covered by warranty
Discussion
Ok, I’ll try and keep this shortish. I purchased a bmw 330ci convertible in May this year, in august it was a due an oil service and mentioned that the drivers door didn’t close as easily as the passenger door, so adjustment made by the dealer. The door glass is one one of those frameless window type designs where it drops automatically and closes under the seal when the door is shut, I’ve always thought they look a bit of an alignment/long term relaibity nightmare and on occasion I’ve notice that the glass has caught on the edge of the roof seal and stopped rather than go under it. After fitting the hardtop for winter I notice that glass was pinching part of the windscreen/roof seal and dragging it under rather than sliding under it. So I booked into the dealer and reported this and also a strange bang/crack sound from the passenger door sometimes on closing.
On collecting the car they explained that they’d stripped both doors changed the window motor and regulator on the passenger door and adjusted / changed a part in the driver’s door. All under warranty, go out to car and see immediately that the seal is still being pinched and dragged under by the glass. Master tech comes out and says you need a new roof seal which runs all along the car from behind the drivers door along the sill, up and over the screen and down to behind the passenger door, one massive piece of rubber and velvet stuff, anyway we rebook the car in for a few days later, No Mention of Payment. Drop Car off for the seal, No Mention of Payment, collect car bill for £448 of which seal is £320 one hour ish to fit. Payment now required as dealer says seal is not covered by warranty. Pay but mark invoice as “paid under protest” go out to car and the driver door shut quality is a joke (passenger side slightly better) has to be shut REALLY hard to latch , no time to return but call and speak to service person to inform her of this, she is going to go for goodwill payment from BMW. The seal is now much better glass rides under it as would be expected.
I am peed off because a) not sure a piece of seal being pinched is a £448 problem and b) I’d have liked the chance to consider this before the work done …How would you play this I see several angles,
1. Cost of work if any was not advised prior to completion. Work came off the back of/extension to other warranty work and although not explicitly advised of as such I’ve always been asked on drop off how I intend to pay any bill and this time there was none of that so naturally I assumed it was covered. I’d expect any customer to be aware of an upcoming £500 bill.
2. Given the history on the windows/doors the damage to the seal stems from consequential damage from other (covered components) not functioning/diagnosed correctly. This probably goes back to poor presales preparation at (different) supplying dealer, although service dealer failed to pick it up on first attempt.
3. The repair quality was dire door needs to be slammed shut even the car wash man afterwards must have knew it was wrong!
4. BMW not covering a major/integral part of the whole roof/glazing sealing mechanism is cr*p, I know their warranty cover is decreasing year on year but I don’t expect to wear a £500 repair bill during the first year of ownership on an approved used car.
5. Does anyone else think that maybe dealer thought it was covered as well and only when BMW bounced it did they turn to me, hence the lack of prior notification? About 2 years ago this dealer once did some window work on my X5 under warranty …no charge on collection only to call me back an hour later and ask me to pay for the seal part of the job as BMW had refused to pay for it (I’d forgot this prior experience when booking the convertible in).
What do you think a reasonable settlement would be? It’s fixed the seal (and I presume the drivers door can be made better after yet another trip) but it really wasn’t a £448 problem nor do I believe it should be a £448 fix, moral of the story is check roof and seals on any bmw convertible prior to purchase and confirm who’s paying for work at drop off and use indie when warranty expired! thanks Ian
On collecting the car they explained that they’d stripped both doors changed the window motor and regulator on the passenger door and adjusted / changed a part in the driver’s door. All under warranty, go out to car and see immediately that the seal is still being pinched and dragged under by the glass. Master tech comes out and says you need a new roof seal which runs all along the car from behind the drivers door along the sill, up and over the screen and down to behind the passenger door, one massive piece of rubber and velvet stuff, anyway we rebook the car in for a few days later, No Mention of Payment. Drop Car off for the seal, No Mention of Payment, collect car bill for £448 of which seal is £320 one hour ish to fit. Payment now required as dealer says seal is not covered by warranty. Pay but mark invoice as “paid under protest” go out to car and the driver door shut quality is a joke (passenger side slightly better) has to be shut REALLY hard to latch , no time to return but call and speak to service person to inform her of this, she is going to go for goodwill payment from BMW. The seal is now much better glass rides under it as would be expected.
I am peed off because a) not sure a piece of seal being pinched is a £448 problem and b) I’d have liked the chance to consider this before the work done …How would you play this I see several angles,
1. Cost of work if any was not advised prior to completion. Work came off the back of/extension to other warranty work and although not explicitly advised of as such I’ve always been asked on drop off how I intend to pay any bill and this time there was none of that so naturally I assumed it was covered. I’d expect any customer to be aware of an upcoming £500 bill.
2. Given the history on the windows/doors the damage to the seal stems from consequential damage from other (covered components) not functioning/diagnosed correctly. This probably goes back to poor presales preparation at (different) supplying dealer, although service dealer failed to pick it up on first attempt.
3. The repair quality was dire door needs to be slammed shut even the car wash man afterwards must have knew it was wrong!
4. BMW not covering a major/integral part of the whole roof/glazing sealing mechanism is cr*p, I know their warranty cover is decreasing year on year but I don’t expect to wear a £500 repair bill during the first year of ownership on an approved used car.
5. Does anyone else think that maybe dealer thought it was covered as well and only when BMW bounced it did they turn to me, hence the lack of prior notification? About 2 years ago this dealer once did some window work on my X5 under warranty …no charge on collection only to call me back an hour later and ask me to pay for the seal part of the job as BMW had refused to pay for it (I’d forgot this prior experience when booking the convertible in).
What do you think a reasonable settlement would be? It’s fixed the seal (and I presume the drivers door can be made better after yet another trip) but it really wasn’t a £448 problem nor do I believe it should be a £448 fix, moral of the story is check roof and seals on any bmw convertible prior to purchase and confirm who’s paying for work at drop off and use indie when warranty expired! thanks Ian
I had a similar issues when fixing my 535d. The car was in for some work under warranty. I also asked the dealer to replace the sill plates, as the chrome plating had pealed off. I confirmed that this was under warranty. Dealer says yes, no problem. Work is done and I pick up the car. No request for payment is made.
About 5 weeks later I get a call saying "you owe us £238 (or thereabouts)". I say "no it was under warranty - this was agreed with the service manager". Service manager denies this, I get threatened with 'collections action'. I ask for a copy of the invoice - all items are shown at £0.0p. Cue more argument. In the end I pay up (mainly because the dealer was a mate of a mate).
Moral of the story - get everything in writing. And even if you haven't been asked to pay when you pick the car up, don't assume you won't get chased up later!!
UV
About 5 weeks later I get a call saying "you owe us £238 (or thereabouts)". I say "no it was under warranty - this was agreed with the service manager". Service manager denies this, I get threatened with 'collections action'. I ask for a copy of the invoice - all items are shown at £0.0p. Cue more argument. In the end I pay up (mainly because the dealer was a mate of a mate).
Moral of the story - get everything in writing. And even if you haven't been asked to pay when you pick the car up, don't assume you won't get chased up later!!
UV
Must be a good mate of a mate, If I'd spent the thick end of £40k and the chrome plate came off I wouldn't be paying for it! I have to say that whilst I love the way BMW's drive and the engines, lots of the other stuff leave a lot to be desired specifically long term trim durability and quality. another example is the pixel problem on the e39 and x53's, I've had the whole cluster done under warranty (£xxxx) and yet the same problem is back in 3 years, it's also gone on the X5, do they not feedback quality problems to the OEM supplier???
I doubt they care with the way sales are going but I doubt I'll replace any of my 3 current BMW's (330,528 x5) with another (other than another e39 5 series perhaps).
I doubt they care with the way sales are going but I doubt I'll replace any of my 3 current BMW's (330,528 x5) with another (other than another e39 5 series perhaps).
Hope I can help here...Im a BMW Master tech too..
Firstly they are bound by their own terms and conditions(as well as BMW's) to let you know of any impending work or costs that will incure-they have to have your authority first.
Secondly if there is a fault ith the door and has caused damage to the seal because of the fault then it is consiquential damage which is covered.Even if they say no then a goodwill claim is in order as you have only had the vehicle for a short time.
Thirdly it sounds like the glass is adjusted up too high or the General module is not allowing the window motor to operate for long enough,so the window doesnt drop far enough.
If they have a good service manager then it can be easily sorted via him/her.
If however they become awkward then contact customer services.
Where abouts in the world are you?
Firstly they are bound by their own terms and conditions(as well as BMW's) to let you know of any impending work or costs that will incure-they have to have your authority first.
Secondly if there is a fault ith the door and has caused damage to the seal because of the fault then it is consiquential damage which is covered.Even if they say no then a goodwill claim is in order as you have only had the vehicle for a short time.
Thirdly it sounds like the glass is adjusted up too high or the General module is not allowing the window motor to operate for long enough,so the window doesnt drop far enough.
If they have a good service manager then it can be easily sorted via him/her.
If however they become awkward then contact customer services.
Where abouts in the world are you?
Blackspider,
Thanks consequential damage is exactly how I see it as well I'm glad it's covered. I'm based in Solihull using the local BTCC dealership! I know dealers are warranty happy to do stuff I'm just peed off I had no prior notice. The funny thing is all the work on the passenger side for the noise I've realised is the sticking passenger door handle snapping shut against the body when the door is closed nothing to do with the motor/regulator they replaced!!
You're a mine of useful expert inside info on here by the way keep up the good posts, hope the indie set up goes well when you start it. Thanks Ian
Thanks consequential damage is exactly how I see it as well I'm glad it's covered. I'm based in Solihull using the local BTCC dealership! I know dealers are warranty happy to do stuff I'm just peed off I had no prior notice. The funny thing is all the work on the passenger side for the noise I've realised is the sticking passenger door handle snapping shut against the body when the door is closed nothing to do with the motor/regulator they replaced!!
You're a mine of useful expert inside info on here by the way keep up the good posts, hope the indie set up goes well when you start it. Thanks Ian
ian_cab28 said:
Blackspider,
Thanks consequential damage is exactly how I see it as well I'm glad it's covered. I'm based in Solihull using the local BTCC dealership! I know dealers are warranty happy to do stuff I'm just peed off I had no prior notice. The funny thing is all the work on the passenger side for the noise I've realised is the sticking passenger door handle snapping shut against the body when the door is closed nothing to do with the motor/regulator they replaced!!
You're a mine of useful expert inside info on here by the way keep up the good posts, hope the indie set up goes well when you start it. Thanks Ian
Thanks consequential damage is exactly how I see it as well I'm glad it's covered. I'm based in Solihull using the local BTCC dealership! I know dealers are warranty happy to do stuff I'm just peed off I had no prior notice. The funny thing is all the work on the passenger side for the noise I've realised is the sticking passenger door handle snapping shut against the body when the door is closed nothing to do with the motor/regulator they replaced!!
You're a mine of useful expert inside info on here by the way keep up the good posts, hope the indie set up goes well when you start it. Thanks Ian
Thats a common one-the rubber suround that the handle goes through tends to be the cause-a bit of lube is all thats needed...Also the lock mechanism tends to sieze..lube again
Yes I knew they were prone to sticking, I just find it funny that the dealer changes the guts of the electric window mechanism when (subsequently I realise) the fault is the handle snapping back I'd never seen anything to lead me to believe there was anything wrong with the passenger closing mechanism, I think the dealer just sees it as a cast iron warranty claim/occupation for the boys in the back! no wonder the extended costs have gone through the roof. I've left a letter for the service manager this morning so I'm awaiting his call. I'll keep you posted on developments.
Final result was a bill to me of £113 a mixture of goodwill parts reduction by BMW and the dealer fitting it for free. A fair outcome I feel as the seal has improved the glass fitting but a far cry from a few years back when the car was made right during the 1 year approved period whatever the problem. Thanks, Ian
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