Discussion
Last year I got to drive a 320d, 530d and 730d. I was pleasantly surprised by all of them, but only that they were relatively quick and quiet with the qualification: "for a diesel".
They weren't QUITE as economical when pushing along as I expected, and I suspect diesels economy advantage is greater when you drive slowly, and I find (with a diesel manual at least) that you can get much better figures than a petrol when trickling along in heavy traffic, but less benefit when you get your foot down. Diesel manuals also seem to fare much better than automatics, both on paper and in real life.
I've been swaying towards diesels recently, but have noticed all the talk of turbos, injectors, pumps, miss-fueling and swirl flaps. Thats the sort of thing that could wipe out the economy advantage in one swoop, and scares the hell out of me. The risk of major mechanical repairs hasn't been a buying factor for me for a long time, but it is now.
There were two new points I wanted to make, though. I think the 745i is one of most under-appreciated cars for a long time. It had a valvetronic engine and dynamic drive chassis, two enormous leaps in technology in one car, that few paid attention to, and then quickly forgot. Valvetronic used variable valve lift to control the engine load, doing away with the need for a throttle entirely. The media thought this was an advantage in itself, but no, the real benefit came from having the optimum valve lift AND duration for every engine speed AND load (rather than just for a single speed). This means the engine is smooth, clean, powerful and fuel efficient all the time, so that economy improves with gentle driving more than it does with other engines - which is one of the advantages of the diesel! Yes, its complicated, but I haven't heard any reliability horror stories; have you?
Dynamic Drive is the other big thing. I have a Lexus Soarer with active suspension, and it does an uncanny job or marrying great ride and handling together. While the Lexus system is very complex, expensive and power hungry, BMW's system is simple, cheap, light and effective. You don't need stiff springs and dampers for good handling, so the suspension still absorbs bumps while keeping the car upright. Another age-old compromise completely side-stepped by technology.
Thing is, its the 745i where you'll find these two compelling reasons to buy a 7 series, not the 730d.
BR, Nick
They weren't QUITE as economical when pushing along as I expected, and I suspect diesels economy advantage is greater when you drive slowly, and I find (with a diesel manual at least) that you can get much better figures than a petrol when trickling along in heavy traffic, but less benefit when you get your foot down. Diesel manuals also seem to fare much better than automatics, both on paper and in real life.
I've been swaying towards diesels recently, but have noticed all the talk of turbos, injectors, pumps, miss-fueling and swirl flaps. Thats the sort of thing that could wipe out the economy advantage in one swoop, and scares the hell out of me. The risk of major mechanical repairs hasn't been a buying factor for me for a long time, but it is now.
There were two new points I wanted to make, though. I think the 745i is one of most under-appreciated cars for a long time. It had a valvetronic engine and dynamic drive chassis, two enormous leaps in technology in one car, that few paid attention to, and then quickly forgot. Valvetronic used variable valve lift to control the engine load, doing away with the need for a throttle entirely. The media thought this was an advantage in itself, but no, the real benefit came from having the optimum valve lift AND duration for every engine speed AND load (rather than just for a single speed). This means the engine is smooth, clean, powerful and fuel efficient all the time, so that economy improves with gentle driving more than it does with other engines - which is one of the advantages of the diesel! Yes, its complicated, but I haven't heard any reliability horror stories; have you?
Dynamic Drive is the other big thing. I have a Lexus Soarer with active suspension, and it does an uncanny job or marrying great ride and handling together. While the Lexus system is very complex, expensive and power hungry, BMW's system is simple, cheap, light and effective. You don't need stiff springs and dampers for good handling, so the suspension still absorbs bumps while keeping the car upright. Another age-old compromise completely side-stepped by technology.
Thing is, its the 745i where you'll find these two compelling reasons to buy a 7 series, not the 730d.
BR, Nick
I didn't realise that the 745i had Dynamic Drive and the 730D didn't. Apart from the potential cost if it goes wrong (do you know if the 730D has EDC too as I would imagine new dampers will be ££££) then it does make a compelling case for the 745i. Just googled and found a glowing review in Evo too:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/1569...
Hmmmm this looks like a good price..
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/BMW+...
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/1569...
Hmmmm this looks like a good price..
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/BMW+...
Edited by hughjayteens on Friday 9th January 13:09
hughjayteens said:
Wow... thats serious value there... But it's not the cheapest on the trader! Wonder what these are going throught the auctions at if the dealers are selling them for < £9K
pgilc1 said:
hughjayteens said:
matt uk said:
Not all of lifes decisions should be made with an excel spreadsheet
A perfect motto for a credit crunch ridden world - love it!
gizlaroc said:
The other way of looking at it is this, buy the one you really, really like now as swapping cars is always the expensive bit of ownership, so get it wrong and it could cost your more in the long run.
True, thats why its important to do your homework upfront on 'can you afford it' moreso than buying with rose tinted glasses, only to find out you later cant afford to keep it and cant afford to sell it.anonymous said:
[redacted]
You are making the fatal mistake that people buy diesels only to save cash. Given i had the choice of pretty much any model of five series of 5, but bought the 535d, heres why i, and the majority of diesel buyers like me actually buy diesel cars, which you might want to pay attention to, because i notice you repeated bang the same (vastly outdated) drum about diesels = for the naive herd who dont know better.(a) i like the way they drive - very relaxing power yet acceleration there without having to exert yourself
(b) i like the way i'm not on first name terms with the staff in the local filling station like i would be if i'd bought a 540i
(c) I like the fact i can get 40mpg on long runs. It makes long journeys pleasurable rather than watching the petrol need go down before my eyes.
(d) I like the fact that i wont be treated like i have AIDS come trade in time - given how 'out of favour' big engined petrols are.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You could argue that most car buyers are 'misguided' with their choice of car. How many people buy vauxhalls because they've always bought them, or fords because its a ford?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
So diesels now outsell petrol cars across europe, but everyone is wrong?? I like that.My point was, maybe they ARE saving money. They pay a bit more for the car, get much better MPG, and sell it for a bit more.
Also, dont forget most of europe has much more preferential rates for diesel fuel than in the uk.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This always happens with you - circular arguements based on 1980s diesel stereotypesanonymous said:
[redacted]
Neither did i. Your arguement was (loving the logic)Diesels are popular
Mcdonalds is popular
Popular things are usually s
tTherefore diesels are s
tanonymous said:
[redacted]
Thats is your opinion, you have no evidence of that. I say a lot of people buy diesels for reasons other than economy. As a diesel buyer i know i do. You say 'no they dont they buy them for economy'. Again, unless you've done a poll that you're not telling us about across europe you have no evidence of that. Its your (prejudiced) opinion.anonymous said:
[redacted]
The bulk of people dont care. Show me a survey of reasons why the general public buy a car because 'it sounds nice' or has 'sharp throttle response'. Again thats a prejudice you cling to quite a lot.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Oh this is a good one. Loving the logic here.Diesels are worth more than petrols
All cars depreciate towards zero
There is a credit crunch so cars are depreciating faster
Therefore all cars will soon be worth zero therefore the diesel differential doesnt matter.
I've news for you - very few people keep their cars until its worthless. Most 18-24 months, maybe 3 years.
Also, loving the herd mentality logic
Sometimes people buy things because other people buy things
That makes things popular
Diesels are popular
Diesels are bought by people with a herd mentality.
Mate honestly - its 'ok' for people to buy diesels.
Edited by pgilc1 on Saturday 10th January 18:31
I have a 745i and can't fault it, if you push it hard it can drink like George Best but I dont really do a lot of miles and around town I get about 18mpg and between 25 and 30mpg on a run. The V8 is superb and constantly surprises me how well it propels such a big car. Id say overall its a bit underestimated its no B-road weapon but for the type of car it handles well and feels very composed 99% of the time whether it be a B road or Motorway.
Sure the diesel will command a higher price when you go to sell it(bearing in mind you'll pay more for it in the first place) however I'd say the V8 will be more enjoyable to own and still put a smile on your face!
Sure the diesel will command a higher price when you go to sell it(bearing in mind you'll pay more for it in the first place) however I'd say the V8 will be more enjoyable to own and still put a smile on your face!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The bulk of people dont care. Show me a survey of reasons why the general public buy a car because 'it sounds nice' or has 'sharp throttle response'. Again thats a prejudice you cling to quite a lot.I say people don't care about the finer points of an engine / powertrain.
You response is to say, "prove to me that people care about the finer points of an engine. If you can't you are prejudice."
The rest of your last post was riddled with similarly ineffectual attempts at cheap point scoring. All you do is make yourself look foolish and rather short on basic intellectual capacity. Give up.
Edited by caboosemoose on Saturday 10th January 20:54
I dont need to point score. The bulk of new cars are now diesel. Deal with it, and justify it how you like.
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