Discussion
pgilc1 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Responded from my sons laptop downstairs - he was logged on as munky1275 and i didnt realise - he was watching you ignore direct questions again.dibbly_dobbler said:
pgilc1 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Responded from my sons laptop downstairs - he was logged on as munky1275 and i didnt realise - he was watching you ignore direct questions again.pgilc1 said:
Assuming you do actually accept that we are living in the 21st century now, care to comment on Autocars choice of the 330d as a top ten new car buy, over the 330i?
They've not roadtested an LCI E90 330i yet have they? Nobody seems to bother, because diesel is the default choice - which is back to the 'herd mentality' being discussed before.A small amount of people will chose diesel for sensible, logical reasons. You are obviously one of those. However an overwhelming majorty don't - they apply very little thought and even less logic to car purchases. They buy a diesel because, its a diesel, duh. this means it gets amazing mpgs, duh. Whereas petrol doesn't. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT, right?
The parents of somebody close to me have done just this - they bought a 1.4 TDCi Fiesta brand new just before the new model came out for popping into town and suchlike. Since then, they've covered a whole 1500 miles. Why diesel? It's cheaper to run, right? No amount of me pointing out it wasn't would be listened so, so the diesel it was..
Witness VW's press advertising campaign for the Golf TDI Match a few months back with the tagline 'Everyone knows diesels are cheaper to run'. They do, do they?
I didn't used to be bothered by the incessent domination of diesels for no good reason, it didn't affect me. But now it does affect me. I'm sorely tempted by an LCI E60/E90 530i/330i M Sport as my next car. A nice 1 year old AUC example will be lovely. But they don't exist. Nobody is buying them. Dealers don't even have them on their demo fleet. Nobody test drives the petrol, they just order the diesel.
BMW's current petrol range is absolutely stunning - better now than at any point in the past but nobody seems to care and it's a bloody shame.
330i M Sport - 272bhp and 40mpg combined - also lower company car tax than the diesel.
330d M Sport - 241bhp and 46mpg combined.
Why is nobody bothering to try a petrol?!
Interestingly, we worked out the running costs of the 02 530d v 02 530i (As we have both as you know) and figured that with current fuel price differentials they are pretty much costing the same to run...
Edited by Fox- on Sunday 11th January 17:49
Edited by Fox- on Sunday 11th January 18:02
Fox- said:
pgilc1 said:
Assuming you do actually accept that we are living in the 21st century now, care to comment on Autocars choice of the 330d as a top ten new car buy, over the 330i?
They've not roadtested an LCI E90 330i yet have they? Nobody seems to bother, because diesel is the default choice - which is back to the 'herd mentality' being discussed before.A small amount of people will chose diesel for sensible, logical reasons. You are obviously one of those. However an overwhelming majorty don't - they apply very little thought and even less logic to car purchases. They buy a diesel because, its a diesel, duh. this means it gets amazing mpgs, duh. Whereas petrol doesn't. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT, right?
The parents of somebody close to me have done just this - they bought a 1.4 TDCi Fiesta brand new just before the new model came out for popping into town and suchlike. Since then, they've covered a whole 1500 miles. Why diesel? It's cheaper to run, right? No amount of me pointing out it wasn't would be listened so, so the diesel it was..
Witness VW's press advertising campaign for the Golf TDI Match a few months back with the tagline 'Everyone knows diesels are cheaper to run'. They do, do they?
I didn't used to be bothered by the incessent domination of diesels for no good reason, it didn't affect me. But now it does affect me. I'm sorely tempted by an LCI E60/E90 530i/330i M Sport as my next car. A nice 1 year old AUC example will be lovely. But they don't exist. Nobody is buying them. Dealers don't even have them on their demo fleet. Nobody test drives the petrol, they just order the diesel.
BMW's current petrol range is absolutely stunning - better now than at any point in the past but nobody seems to care and it's a bloody shame.
330i M Sport - 272bhp and 40mpg combined - also lower company car tax than the diesel.
330d M Sport - 241bhp and 46mpg combined.
Why is nobody bothering to try a petrol?!
Interestingly, we worked out the running costs of the 02 530d v 02 530i (As we have both as you know) and figured that with current fuel price differentials they are pretty much costing the same to run...
Edited by Fox- on Sunday 11th January 17:49
Edited by Fox- on Sunday 11th January 18:02
pgilc1 said:
noumenon said:
Would it be fair to say that the diseasal is the head choice and the petrol is the heart choice (and leave it at that)? 
No not at all. Thats not how it is. I chose the 535d because its the best all round car in the range. My last one pushed around 340BHP, 500lb/ft of torque, 0-60 in 5.5s, and topped out at 174mph, yet it was an amazing cross country weapon. There is no 5 series this side of a £60K m5 that can beat that all round combination. If it had been a 'head choice' it would have been the 520d or a 523i.
Edited by pgilc1 on Sunday 11th January 13:32
pgilc1 said:
"Nobody wants petrols" when it comes to a 330 or 530 is because the diesels give a much better all round buying proposition
I really think it's more complex than that. Most people buy diesels because they PERCEIVE them to be a better buy, not neccesarily because they actually are. Most buyers don't do the requisite level of research into their purchases - they buy based on preconceptions a lot of the time, and popular opinion.How many new 330d buyers sat down, looked at the projected ownership costs of each, test drove a 330i and a 330d in the spec they wanted and then made an informed decision? Versus how many who simply walked in, drove a 330d because thats all they ever have on the demo fleet these days and remember, diesel = cheap to run, and ordered it without even knowing what the 330i costs to buy let alone how it stacks up against a 330d?
The example of the people mentioned in my previous post - they bought the diesel Fiesta because they wanted a car that was cheap to run. Obviously, then, they had to have a diesel. Thats it - it's that simple. It had to be diesel. The petrol Fiesta didn't even enter the running. They didn't ask for a price quote on it, they didn't ask for its fuel economy, they couldn't have been less interested.
So now they do about 40-50 miles a week in it, paying 95p a litre for fuel versus 82p a litre convinced they are saving money becuase 'its a diesel'.
Your opinions don't seem to recognise how prevelant this sort of person is in the market, pgilc.
Edited by Fox- on Sunday 11th January 18:29
hughjayteens said:
Am pondering a Luxo barge with a weekend toy (Elise maybe) when my lease expires, and whilst I know a 730D might be the sensible option, I can get a like for like 745i for about £3k less (£10k versus £13k ish for a 2003 65k mile car).
The saving in purchase price would cover the difference in my fuel bills I think (I only do 10k a year) so would the 745i be the better option?
Anyone owned or driven one?
Cheers
Chris
But going back to the OP, I'm sure he will be enthralled at knowing all this about the 3/5 series, or should he just go and buy a MX5 and be done with it?The saving in purchase price would cover the difference in my fuel bills I think (I only do 10k a year) so would the 745i be the better option?
Anyone owned or driven one?
Cheers
Chris
pgilc1 said:
hughjayteens said:
matt uk said:
Not all of lifes decisions should be made with an excel spreadsheet
A perfect motto for a credit crunch ridden world - love it!In answer to the credit crunch bit I'd say - that is not how I intended my post to be translated. I for one am not stupid enough to have created a false life-style by borrowing cheap money with no ideas how I'll pay it back - and I like to think that most of the intelligent people I chat and debate with on PH are similar in that respect.
My point is when a car decision goes down to a spreadsheet to work out the final variances, then for me, the head has done it's work to get close enough and the heart can now make the final choice.
Liking cars is an expensive hobby. I doubt any of us can claim that we are getting from A to B in the most cost efficient way possible - especially those of us chatting in the BMW forum. BMWs are not cheap - but they are good. We like the way they drive, the way they are made and the fact that they are still desirable when we want to sell them on. But there are cheaper ways of doing 'transport'.
I set up a spreadsheet between the 530d and 530i before I purchased - they are both great cars. Lots of variances on mpg, depreciation, services, fault repairs etc etc. Key point is that both were within budget. And I made the assumption that the OP was in a similar position.
I went for the 530i in the end - maybe it'll cost me a bit more to run than a d. Then again, maybe it won't. Ultimately I will never know the answer to that one - too may variables and life is too short. But even if it does, I'm willing to pay for the pleasures in life that I can afford and that make me smile. If I had have got the 530d, I would always have had the nagging doubt that I was in a position to afford what I really wanted, but didn't to try and save a few quid.
Edited by matt uk on Sunday 11th January 20:06
bmw2002 said:
hughjayteens said:
Am pondering a Luxo barge with a weekend toy (Elise maybe) when my lease expires, and whilst I know a 730D might be the sensible option, I can get a like for like 745i for about £3k less (£10k versus £13k ish for a 2003 65k mile car).
The saving in purchase price would cover the difference in my fuel bills I think (I only do 10k a year) so would the 745i be the better option?
Anyone owned or driven one?
Cheers
Chris
But going back to the OP, I'm sure he will be enthralled at knowing all this about the 3/5 series, or should he just go and buy a MX5 and be done with it?The saving in purchase price would cover the difference in my fuel bills I think (I only do 10k a year) so would the 745i be the better option?
Anyone owned or driven one?
Cheers
Chris
Well said!Nearest I've been is when a LWB 730d picks me up from the airport - and it's a lovely thing.
OP, I've not owed or driven either - I'm oowt! Good luck!
Cheers,
Matt
matt uk said:
bmw2002 said:
hughjayteens said:
Am pondering a Luxo barge with a weekend toy (Elise maybe) when my lease expires, and whilst I know a 730D might be the sensible option, I can get a like for like 745i for about £3k less (£10k versus £13k ish for a 2003 65k mile car).
The saving in purchase price would cover the difference in my fuel bills I think (I only do 10k a year) so would the 745i be the better option?
Anyone owned or driven one?
Cheers
Chris
But going back to the OP, I'm sure he will be enthralled at knowing all this about the 3/5 series, or should he just go and buy a MX5 and be done with it?The saving in purchase price would cover the difference in my fuel bills I think (I only do 10k a year) so would the 745i be the better option?
Anyone owned or driven one?
Cheers
Chris
Well said!Nearest I've been is when a LWB 730d picks me up from the airport - and it's a lovely thing.
OP, I've not owed or driven either - I'm oowt! Good luck!
Cheers,
Matt
Fox- said:
pgilc1 said:
Just to sink that boat, yes they have tested the very latest 330i.
Excellent please provide a link to the full road test of the LCI 330i M Sport. Thanks!matt uk said:
I went for the 530i in the end - maybe it'll cost me a bit more to run than a d. Then again, maybe it won't. Ultimately I will never know the answer to that one - too may variables and life is too short. But even if it does, I'm willing to pay for the pleasures in life that I can afford and that make me smile. If I had have got the 530d, I would always have had the nagging doubt that I was in a position to afford what I really wanted, but didn't to try and save a few quid.
All your post is fair comment, but just to particularly agree with you on your last paragraph, maybe its because i wanted a 535d in the firstplace moreso than say, a 540i / 545i and the reverse would have been true - any time i'd have seen a 535d i'd have had a nagging doubt in anything less.Edited by matt uk on Sunday 11th January 20:06
I guess there are those who cant grasp that people might want to drive the diesel variant.
By all means though if the 530i / 745i or whatever floats their boat then cool. Each to their own.
Edited by pgilc1 on Sunday 11th January 22:26
They didn't even road test the pre-LCI 330i - they only did a first drive on it.
Just to get a feel for the diesel economy saving, I estimated some figures for the 730D and 745i based on 10k miles a year (which is, of course, what the OP actually said):
730D, 40mpg average, £1.00/litre: £1,136.50 per year.
745i, 25mpg average, 90p/litre: £1,636.56 per year.
So £500 per annum, or just over £40 a month, is the difference. And that's based on optimistic consumption for the diesel and being generous on the fuel price (diesel's at least 12p/litre more expensive wherever I go currently), so the real difference will be smaller.
For the extra performance, initial cost saving and V8 engine, £40/month is well justified in my view.
Just to get a feel for the diesel economy saving, I estimated some figures for the 730D and 745i based on 10k miles a year (which is, of course, what the OP actually said):
730D, 40mpg average, £1.00/litre: £1,136.50 per year.
745i, 25mpg average, 90p/litre: £1,636.56 per year.
So £500 per annum, or just over £40 a month, is the difference. And that's based on optimistic consumption for the diesel and being generous on the fuel price (diesel's at least 12p/litre more expensive wherever I go currently), so the real difference will be smaller.
For the extra performance, initial cost saving and V8 engine, £40/month is well justified in my view.
SJobson said:
Just to get a feel for the diesel economy saving, I estimated some figures for the 730D and 745i based on 10k miles a year (which is, of course, what the OP actually said):
730D, 40mpg average, £1.00/litre: £1,136.50 per year.
745i, 25mpg average, 90p/litre: £1,636.56 per year.
So £500 per annum, or just over £40 a month, is the difference. And that's based on optimistic consumption for the diesel and being generous on the fuel price (diesel's at least 12p/litre more expensive wherever I go currently), so the real difference will be smaller.
For the extra performance, initial cost saving and V8 engine, £40/month is well justified in my view.
I run a fleet of 730d, the average across them is 31.7mpg. My 745s used to be 22.8mpg.730D, 40mpg average, £1.00/litre: £1,136.50 per year.
745i, 25mpg average, 90p/litre: £1,636.56 per year.
So £500 per annum, or just over £40 a month, is the difference. And that's based on optimistic consumption for the diesel and being generous on the fuel price (diesel's at least 12p/litre more expensive wherever I go currently), so the real difference will be smaller.
For the extra performance, initial cost saving and V8 engine, £40/month is well justified in my view.
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