RE: PH2 ridden: Yamaha TMAX

[3doorPete]

Fleegle said:

Life looks very different through rose tinted specs

says the man with the collection of old Yams

[spareparts]

redtwin said:

spareparts said:

Ok, so all this criticism seems leveled at the price. 8.5k new.
Is that an unreasonable amount for arguably the best handling and equipped 500cc clutchless bike that does 50mpg?

Yes, when a better performing and better equipped (ABS, radial Brembos etc) 850cc clutchless bike that does 50+mpg is a grand less.

I get the impression you refuse to accept the Mana exists.

I do. I looked at it before I considered the TMax. But you will soon realise when looking at it up close, that it is $HIT. Really. All the downside of a geared bike, and none of the practical upsides of a maxiscooter apart from the gearbox.

Their proliferation on the streets attest to this

[redtwin]

I have seen the exact same amount of TMaxes on the street as I have seen Manas, the grand total of zero.

Joking aside, what were the downsides vs the TMax?. What does the T-Max do that the Mana doesn't?. I can't say I have seen anything wrong with the quality when I looked one over at the dealer, but then I haven't checked out a Tmax so couldn't honestly compare them.

I may be wrong here, but could it just be down to styling?. The TMax will appeal to those who want a scooter and will gravitate to the machine that most looks like one, despite the Mana being nothing more than a scooter (powertrain of the Mana is lifted straight from the Gilera GP800), albeit with 17" wheels and traditional motorcycle styling.

In fact now that I have mentioned the GP800, it is available for £2K less than the T-Max and it has all the scooterish essence the Mana may lack. Another nail in the T-Max's UK coffin?.

Edited by redtwin on Thursday 15th December 21:35

[spareparts]

redtwin said:

I have seen the exact same amount of TMaxes on the street as I have seen Manas, the grand total of zero.

Joking aside, what were the downsides vs the TMax?. What does the T-Max do that the Mana doesn't?. I can't say I have seen anything wrong with the quality when I looked one over at the dealer, but then I haven't checked out a Tmax so couldn't honestly compare them.

I may be wrong here, but could it just be down to styling?. The TMax will appeal to those who want a scooter and will gravitate to the machine that most looks like one, despite the Mana being nothing more than a scooter (powertrain of the Mana is lifted straight from the Gilera GP800), albeit with 17" wheels and traditional motorcycle styling.

In fact now that I have mentioned the GP800, it is available for £2K less than the T-Max and it has all the scooterish essence the Mana may lack. Another nail in the T-Max's UK coffin?.

Edited by redtwin on Thursday 15th December 21:35

The TMax has storage - under seat, and 2 storage cubbies.
It has very comfortable couch-like seating.
It carries 2-up in equal comfort.
It has a full fairing that provides exceptional weather protection.
It has a full screen.
It has a lower CoG for easier slow speed handling.
It has better mirrors that are perfectly placed and do not move with the handlebars.
It provides better economy.
It has a zero maintenance sealed drive unit, no chain.
You don't have to climb over the bike to get on it.
It's a Yamaha which means easier servicing compared to an Aprilia.

The Mana has none of the above: all valuable factors when looking for a daily urban commuter.

There are numerous TMaxes around London. Zero Manas. There is even a TMax race series.

You mention the GP800. Yes there are a few around. But it tries to emphasise power over balanced utility and performance. And sales suggest that people would rather the looks and balanced utility of the TMax over the engine-oriented GP800.

Edited by spareparts on Thursday 15th December 22:30

[spareparts]

Bottom line: I've ridden numerous geared bikes and scooters as an everyday commuter in/out/across London (M4 -> City of London), 25-30 miles everyday, rain/shine/snow. None have provided the comfort, practicality, handling, or all round performance of the TMax. It is the best 'scooter' out there, bar none. Simples.

Edit to add my final word on this >
Quite frankly don't get people who knock scooters. Millions around the world scoot as it's a practical affordable form of transport, and it plays a vital role in getting people from A-B, have fun whilst at it, and it certainly beats struggling with a geared bike in traffic, or looking like a power ranger idiot in traffic (I've been there, done it before, so am equally guilty). Scooters are fantastic bikes designed for a specific purpose, and manufacturers clearly know a thing or two to be developing them more and more for real world biking. Sure, maybe not pleasure biking, but for everyday getting between the home and office - fantastic machines. I'm a fan, as much as I am a fan of superbikes, tourers, and nakeds. Admire them all for what they are designed to excel at. At the end of the day, biking is about enjoying and having fun on 2 wheels...

Have fun everyone, and enjoy the ride

Edited by spareparts on Thursday 15th December 23:02

[off_again]

Seen one Mana on the road - a bloke uses one for to / from the local train station! Somewhat out classes every other bike parked there, but it was this one that got me thinking - having heard it and it sounds a little odd.

But yes, sold in virtually non-existent numbers.

[ZesPak]

spareparts said:

I do. I looked at it before I considered the TMax. But you will soon realise when looking at it up close, that it is $HIT. Really. All the downside of a geared bike, and none of the practical upsides of a maxiscooter apart from the gearbox.

Their proliferation on the streets attest to this

Not to defend the mana, but you know that that way of thinking says that a toyota is better than anything Merc, BMW or Alfa have to offer...

[Fleegle]

spareparts said:

Bottom line: I've ridden numerous geared bikes and scooters as an everyday commuter in/out/across London (M4 -> City of London), 25-30 miles everyday, rain/shine/snow. None have provided the comfort, practicality, handling, or all round performance of the TMax. It is the best 'scooter' out there, bar none. Simples.

Edit to add my final word on this >
Quite frankly don't get people who knock scooters. Millions around the world scoot as it's a practical affordable form of transport, and it plays a vital role in getting people from A-B, have fun whilst at it, and it certainly beats struggling with a geared bike in traffic, or looking like a power ranger idiot in traffic (I've been there, done it before, so am equally guilty). Scooters are fantastic bikes designed for a specific purpose, and manufacturers clearly know a thing or two to be developing them more and more for real world biking. Sure, maybe not pleasure biking, but for everyday getting between the home and office - fantastic machines. I'm a fan, as much as I am a fan of superbikes, tourers, and nakeds. Admire them all for what they are designed to excel at. At the end of the day, biking is about enjoying and having fun on 2 wheels...

Have fun everyone, and enjoy the ride

Edited by spareparts on Thursday 15th December 23:02

If its so fking good then you will have no issue putting your other bikes n the market!

Its a fat fking scooter that pisses off city riders because it takes more than one space in the ever decreasing spaces we are alloted.

your justification is laughable

Call me small penis man, but if I met MR TMAX LOOK AT ME on nmy travels, rightly or wrongly, he would run out of road long before i did

[Mr Gear]

Fleegle said:

If its so fking good then you will have no issue putting your other bikes n the market!

Its a fat fking scooter that pisses off city riders because it takes more than one space in the ever decreasing spaces we are alloted.

your justification is laughable

Call me small penis man, but if I met MR TMAX LOOK AT ME on nmy travels, rightly or wrongly, he would run out of road long before i did

I hope this is a joke post, because if it's not, it doesn't make you look like a very nice or well balanced person.

[ZesPak]

Mr Gear said:

Fleegle said:

If its so fking good then you will have no issue putting your other bikes n the market!

Its a fat fking scooter that pisses off city riders because it takes more than one space in the ever decreasing spaces we are alloted.

your justification is laughable

Call me small penis man, but if I met MR TMAX LOOK AT ME on nmy travels, rightly or wrongly, he would run out of road long before i did

I hope this is a joke post, because if it's not, it doesn't make you look like a very nice or well balanced person.

Well, he isn't, you should see him park, very inconsiderate use of perfectly good scooter parking places.

[Mr Gear]

ZesPak said:

Well, he isn't, you should see him park, very inconsiderate use of perfectly good scooter parking places.

Ha ha, yes, I am aware of that little incident.

[Harry H]

I tried the GP 800 when I was getting bored of the Tmax. It is incredibly fast for a scooter. The problem with it is that to get the stability required to keep it stable at the 125mph top speed it looses all it's agility as a scooter when going slower.

Great in theory but not a good scooter and not a good motorbike. So it's a fail from me.

[spareparts]

Harry H said:

I tried the GP 800 when I was getting bored of the Tmax. It is incredibly fast for a scooter. The problem with it is that to get the stability required to keep it stable at the 125mph top speed it looses all it's agility as a scooter when going slower.

Great in theory but not a good scooter and not a good motorbike. So it's a fail from me.

Agree. This is why the GP800 is such a poorly placed product. It tries to answer questions that no one ever asked for and no one actually wants. If you want to go 125mph (Autobahn/track), then the physical dynamics of a regular geared motorbike is a much safer/better way to do it.

[NAS]

And it's very heavy indeed. And don't forget the chain which needs constant attention. Scoot riders hate that.

[Fleegle]

Mr Gear said:

Fleegle said:

If its so fking good then you will have no issue putting your other bikes n the market!

Its a fat fking scooter that pisses off city riders because it takes more than one space in the ever decreasing spaces we are alloted.

your justification is laughable

Call me small penis man, but if I met MR TMAX LOOK AT ME on nmy travels, rightly or wrongly, he would run out of road long before i did

I hope this is a joke post, because if it's not, it doesn't make you look like a very nice or well balanced person.

Look at the time it was posted


It's a scooter at the end of the day. Large or small, fast or slow.....doesn't matter. It's a scooter!

He can wax lyrical all day long about the merits HE considers strong enough to persuade us all that we have the wrong bike in our garage. The thing he's forgot to consider is that a lot of people DON'T WANT a scooter. This years sales figures will probably show that the Blade has sold more than the TMax. That says it all. People buying bikes will generally buy what they like the look of and take it warts and all.

If you like the scooter, fine. I'm really happy for you. But you know when you are riding along and those people are staring and pointing.........

[NAS]

Fleegle said:

the Blade has sold more than the TMax. That says it all.

Only in the UK and some countries in the nordics. The big PTW markets of Europe are a *tad* different. This is why there's so much focus on developing these type of bikes whilst supersport development has slowed down dramatically for instance (esp. for the Japanese).

[Mr Gear]

Fleegle said:

Look at the time it was posted

Gotcha.

[Fleegle]

And you know the development of supersport bikes have slowed down because....?

[NAS]

Fleegle said:

And you know the development of supersport bikes have slowed down because....?

I used to -help- develop them. And scoots. And MX bikes.

And then I sold them Europe-wide.

[Fleegle]

Don't you think they are wasting their time in the UK? I do actually get why they sell well in Europe

BTW - who did you help?