Discussion
dr.pepper said:
265?
Imagine dropping that thing on your foot. I guess in these early days, this kind of tech will carry a bit of weight.
Even the best experimental batteries only have a fraction of the energy density of petrol, so unless there is a sudden huge leap on battery technology there's going to be no significant reduction in weight for quite some time.Imagine dropping that thing on your foot. I guess in these early days, this kind of tech will carry a bit of weight.
Mr2Mike said:
Even the best experimental batteries only have a fraction of the energy density of petrol, so unless there is a sudden huge leap on battery technology there's going to be no significant reduction in weight for quite some time.
Better f
k off the whole idea and sit around hoping someone pulls the perfect solution out of their arse then.BMW are talking about 'leasing' the batteries to cut costs. There is some underseat storage, the pillion seat lifts and the space is big enough for a full face lid. Not as much as other scooters but there is some storage. Weight-wise, it is only a few Kg heavier than the C650 petrol version and it doesn't feel overly heavy to ride
Mr2Mike said:
dr.pepper said:
265?
Imagine dropping that thing on your foot. I guess in these early days, this kind of tech will carry a bit of weight.
Even the best experimental batteries only have a fraction of the energy density of petrol, so unless there is a sudden huge leap on battery technology there's going to be no significant reduction in weight for quite some time.Imagine dropping that thing on your foot. I guess in these early days, this kind of tech will carry a bit of weight.
The Tesla Model S battery is twice as energy dense as the GM Volt battery for example. In fact scaling from the Model S battery Tesla could supply an 8kwh battery for a weight of only 50kg, less than the weight of most motorcycle engines.
dapearson said:
Vectrix have had something very similar available for a few years now. I test rode one a couple of years ago in Cambridge. Great fun. Regenerative braking by twisting the throttle grip forwards was the best bit.
They haven't sold well though.
The AA tried using the vectrix scooters as response vehicles in central london instead of pan euros and other big bikes. they ditched them in the end as they had to run 2 bikes per operator per shift and the operator spent most of his shift going back to base to swap his bike over. The blokes riding them weren't too keen either. one i spoke to said he was always watching the charge meter and worrying if he'd get back to base.....They haven't sold well though.
ALSO, the pro electric brigade always seem to conveniently forget how we get electricity. That socket doesn't have a windmill on the other end....
dapearson said:
Vectrix have had something very similar available for a few years now. I test rode one a couple of years ago in Cambridge. Great fun. Regenerative braking by twisting the throttle grip forwards was the best bit.
They haven't sold well though.
The AA tried using the vectrix scooters as response vehicles in central london instead of pan euros and other big bikes. they ditched them in the end as they had to run 2 bikes per operator per shift and the operator spent most of his shift going back to base to swap his bike over. The blokes riding them weren't too keen either. one i spoke to said he was always watching the charge meter and worrying if he'd get back to base.....They haven't sold well though.
ALSO, the pro electric brigade always seem to conveniently forget how we get electricity. That socket doesn't have a windmill on the other end....
Of course the "Greens" think all this electric powered stuff is wonderful but I've never read any informed, educated comments as to the impact on the National grid when all these feckers are plugged in (mostly overnight-but some bound to be daytime)
Even without them a lot of comments exist about the risk of our future that involves the likelihood of regular power cuts.
Typical lack of long term, joined up thinking by the powers that be if you ask me.
Even without them a lot of comments exist about the risk of our future that involves the likelihood of regular power cuts.
Typical lack of long term, joined up thinking by the powers that be if you ask me.
sprinter1050 said:
Of course the "Greens" think all this electric powered stuff is wonderful but I've never read any informed, educated comments as to the impact on the National grid when all these feckers are plugged in (mostly overnight-but some bound to be daytime)
Even without them a lot of comments exist about the risk of our future that involves the likelihood of regular power cuts.
Typical lack of long term, joined up thinking by the powers that be if you ask me.
I don't understand. What impact on the national grid? There's quite a lot of overage at night time. Even without them a lot of comments exist about the risk of our future that involves the likelihood of regular power cuts.
Typical lack of long term, joined up thinking by the powers that be if you ask me.
If supply begins to outstrip demand we build more means of producing low carbon energy?
Not many companies fail when demand for their product increases.
Prof Prolapse said:
I don't understand. What impact on the national grid? There's quite a lot of overage at night time.
If supply begins to outstrip demand we build more means of producing low carbon energy?
Not many companies fail when demand for their product increases.
I don't believe it's a simple as you suggest. Nor do I believe that we have yet cracked the solution to "low carbon energy". You're surely not suggesting more wind farms are you ? If supply begins to outstrip demand we build more means of producing low carbon energy?
Not many companies fail when demand for their product increases.
They are so heavily subsidised and inefficient that they alone will not meet existing demand -let alone at a cost effective rate. There are no adequate Zero carbon energy solutions that can cope with the demands (other than the politically/Green -sensitive nuclear option) Imagine the sheer demand if electric vehicles became the norm. I don't believe that anybody can conceive, nor has anticipated the demand for, an appropriate all-round solution.
Prof Prolapse said:
I don't understand. What impact on the national grid? There's quite a lot of overage at night time.
If supply begins to outstrip demand we build more means of producing low carbon energy?
Not many companies fail when demand for their product increases.
If you want to get technical, it's not the impact on the grid that's an issue, but on the local Distribution Network - the cables that go from the grid, via. a substation or three, to your house. The worry is that much of the local networks were designed in the days when the most drain the average property had was a few 100W light bulbs and a TV, maybe some overnight storage heaters. The networks are already struggling in some cases to deal with the increased demand as the average household of 2.4 children now has 4-6 laptops (parents work ones as well as personal ones), 4-6 mobile phones (same), 4 ipod/MP3 players, 4 ipod docks, 4 TVs, maybe a family desktop computer and a couple of tablet computers. This isn't much on its own, but spread over the whole country it adds up. If all of a sudden this average family needed to charge 2 or 3 cars overnight as well, the networks would struggle to cope and start to suffer from faults, regardless of the spare capacity in the grid.If supply begins to outstrip demand we build more means of producing low carbon energy?
Not many companies fail when demand for their product increases.
This, combined with the cost of building sources of "green" energy, is one of the - admitidly very small - things that push all our bills so high. Distribution Network Operators are having to spend a fortune on upgrading their networks just to keep up with demand, never mind future proofing.
sprinter1050 said:
I don't believe it's a simple as you suggest. Nor do I believe that we have yet cracked the solution to "low carbon energy". You're surely not suggesting more wind farms are you ?
Nah, I'm into the green stuff but I'm not mental. Definately nuclear. JaguarsportXJR said:
If you want to get technical, it's not the impact on the grid that's an issue, but on the local Distribution Network - If all of a sudden this average family needed to charge 2 or 3 cars overnight as well, the networks would struggle to cope and start to suffer from faults, regardless of the spare capacity in the grid.
.... having to spend a fortune on upgrading their networks just to keep up with demand, never mind future proofing.
Well they're guaranteed a massive revenue increase. So they can invest in a better infrastructure just like any other company. .... having to spend a fortune on upgrading their networks just to keep up with demand, never mind future proofing.
If need be they can get loaned by the government then pay them back. Everybody wins.
Talksteer said:
The Tesla Model S battery is twice as energy dense as the GM Volt battery for example. In fact scaling from the Model S battery Tesla could supply an 8kwh battery for a weight of only 50kg, less than the weight of most motorcycle engines.
That's just the battery (equivalent to a fuel tank). If you are comparing to an engine you have to include the motor, transmission and drive electronics etc. FWIW, just 0.61 kg of petrol contains the equivalent of 8kWh. Obviously petrol engines are pretty inefficient, so you'll need to burn 3-4 times that amount to get the same shaft power, but the difference in energy density is still huge.Prof Prolapse said:
Better fk off the whole idea and sit around hoping someone pulls the perfect solution out of their arse then.
Yes, that's just the kind of attitude we need to help secure our future energy requirements k off the whole idea and sit around hoping someone pulls the perfect solution out of their arse then.
I don't get the hatred towards electric/alternative energy vehicles. As far as I'm concerned, what's left of a non-renewable fuel source should be used for my/our enjoyment, not for some old dot to totter into town in her Fiesta. Get people like that into leccy cars (or something) and leave the fossil fuel for us!
All journeys start with a step, and whilst this isn't a perfect solution, it's all got to start somewhere.
All journeys start with a step, and whilst this isn't a perfect solution, it's all got to start somewhere.
Prof Prolapse said:
Well they're guaranteed a massive revenue increase. So they can invest in a better infrastructure just like any other company.
If need be they can get loaned by the government then pay them back. Everybody wins.
Agreed. The only issue is that although everybody wants a more secure supply, no-one wants their power off for the day while the cables are replaced or to sit in traffic due to the road works. I'm not for an instant saying it can't be done - I know it can - just suggesting it's not as easy as some think.If need be they can get loaned by the government then pay them back. Everybody wins.
Size of the battery pack dictates the range/speed mix, so you can only ever have two out of the three reasons for buying a maxi scooter, if we accept that they are range, speed and comfort. With a big battery pack you can have range and comfort, or speed and comfort, but for range, speed and comfort you need IC (until battery tech moves on).
srob said:
I don't get the hatred towards electric/alternative energy vehicles. As far as I'm concerned, what's left of a non-renewable fuel source should be used for my/our enjoyment, not for some old dot to totter into town in her Fiesta. Get people like that into leccy cars (or something) and leave the fossil fuel for us!
All journeys start with a step, and whilst this isn't a perfect solution, it's all got to start somewhere.
Trouble is it appears that Electric solutions are barely a "solution". I just raised a question to Neil SpaldingAll journeys start with a step, and whilst this isn't a perfect solution, it's all got to start somewhere.
(he of MotoGP tech fame) on Twitter & according to Cambridge Uni info there is in fact V. little difference (in the big picture) between modern Ic engines & Electric vehicles. He seems to favour super-efficient petrol.
I remain convinced that the "Nil carbon/Green energy" push is a combination of Green lobbying & commercial interests being used to sway our thinking to suit "higher interests"
sprinter1050 said:
I remain convinced that the "Nil carbon/Green energy" push is a combination of Green lobbying & commercial interests being used to sway our thinking to suit "higher interests"
I am also of this view. I see ‘green issues’ on a daily basis due to the practice having a very keen eco-friendly bias.I remain unconvinced that wind farms produce more energy than they use in production. I remain unconvinced that charging an electric vehicle has less impact on the environment than using fossil fuel, after all, how is the power produced to charge the battery?
It does nothing more than tick boxes to appease lentil eaters
My thoughts could be deemed negative by those i work with, but I'm a realist. When power efficiency products become cheaper than the traditional equivalent I may change my view. Until then, this Green buzz has been a terrific money spinner for some
Whilst I'm not exactly happy at the thought of the duty on petrol/diesel being so high, I can see the logic of taxing it and then letting everyone choose their transport accordingly. I choose an SL55 on a limited mileage policy, my siblings and parents efficient euroboxes.
What I'm somewhat less happy about are the subsidies paid to alternative energy interests. If petrol is made expensive enough in the long term, there will be demand for alternatives. Asking the government to pick the "winners" to subsidise reminds me of 1970's industrial policy.
What about incentivising R&D through tax breaks and then seeing what the market comes up with? Not enough lobby groups profit from that me thinks
What I'm somewhat less happy about are the subsidies paid to alternative energy interests. If petrol is made expensive enough in the long term, there will be demand for alternatives. Asking the government to pick the "winners" to subsidise reminds me of 1970's industrial policy.
What about incentivising R&D through tax breaks and then seeing what the market comes up with? Not enough lobby groups profit from that me thinks
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