Testing sensor on R1
Discussion
Mr OCD said:
bass gt3 said:
did you never fit a brand new replacement sensor? ??
No I didn't and with that in mind I've just bought a brand new genuine sensor from Yamaha. It will be here Friday.I have to rule it out for certain. If this doesn't work then I have no idea.
if its still throwing up the CIS code it can only be a couple of causes, most likely being a poked sensor.
if the wiring is free of damage it can only really be the sensor. an ecu fault would more than likely be constant and terminal.
For future reference, try to avoid replacing a suspect unit with an unknown u it. false economy
Had a look at parts fiche and strangely I cannot see any 'pickup' on the exhaust cam for the sensor to read from?
As mentioned I got the RAC to check the voltage at the coupler (good job I made sure it was easy to access this time round!) ... and the voltage was not switching as the engine turned over, but did as I stopped the starter and fired over again, also switching ignition on / off...
My understanding is that the voltage should switch between 0 - +4.8v as the engine turns over ?
As mentioned I got the RAC to check the voltage at the coupler (good job I made sure it was easy to access this time round!) ... and the voltage was not switching as the engine turned over, but did as I stopped the starter and fired over again, also switching ignition on / off...
My understanding is that the voltage should switch between 0 - +4.8v as the engine turns over ?
bass gt3 said:
ahhhhh. makes sense now
if its still throwing up the CIS code it can only be a couple of causes, most likely being a poked sensor.
if the wiring is free of damage it can only really be the sensor. an ecu fault would more than likely be constant and terminal.
For future reference, try to avoid replacing a suspect unit with an unknown u it. false economy
Indeed... lesson learned.if its still throwing up the CIS code it can only be a couple of causes, most likely being a poked sensor.
if the wiring is free of damage it can only really be the sensor. an ecu fault would more than likely be constant and terminal.
For future reference, try to avoid replacing a suspect unit with an unknown u it. false economy
New sensor was £82... hardly end of the world!
Wiring on the bike is A1 ... I've been over the entire loom on the bike (which to be fair isn't a great deal of it!) ...
I did wonder if the power commander was playing up but that would not cause a code 11 error.
Mr OCD said:
Had a look at parts fiche and strangely I cannot see any 'pickup' on the exhaust cam for the sensor to read from?
As mentioned I got the RAC to check the voltage at the coupler (good job I made sure it was easy to access this time round!) ... and the voltage was not switching as the engine turned over, but did as I stopped the starter and fired over again, also switching ignition on / off...
My understanding is that the voltage should switch between 0 - +4.8v as the engine turns over ?
Indeed but if the sensor is suspect it may not be triggering as the motor cranks. As mentioned I got the RAC to check the voltage at the coupler (good job I made sure it was easy to access this time round!) ... and the voltage was not switching as the engine turned over, but did as I stopped the starter and fired over again, also switching ignition on / off...
My understanding is that the voltage should switch between 0 - +4.8v as the engine turns over ?
Have a look at the cam and there'll either be a tooth or a gap/hole that will activate the sensor. So the sensor may either be on triggering off or vice versa
bass gt3 said:
Indeed but if the sensor is suspect it may not be triggering as the motor cranks.
Have a look at the cam and there'll either be a tooth or a gap/hole that will activate the sensor. So the sensor may either be on triggering off or vice versa
I'm measuring at the coupler back to the ECU though... so the ECU won't be able to tell if the sensor is triggering as it is unplugged during testing as per factory manual.Have a look at the cam and there'll either be a tooth or a gap/hole that will activate the sensor. So the sensor may either be on triggering off or vice versa
Frustrating
Mr OCD said:
bass gt3 said:
Indeed but if the sensor is suspect it may not be triggering as the motor cranks.
Have a look at the cam and there'll either be a tooth or a gap/hole that will activate the sensor. So the sensor may either be on triggering off or vice versa
I'm measuring at the coupler back to the ECU though... so the ECU won't be able to tell if the sensor is triggering as it is unplugged during testing as per factory manual.Have a look at the cam and there'll either be a tooth or a gap/hole that will activate the sensor. So the sensor may either be on triggering off or vice versa
Frustrating
with both sides of the connector together can you not see the cables where they enter either shell? if so, you should be able to get a meter probe onto the crimped part of the pins where the cable is crimped onto the pins or sockets.
from here you can test the sensor as the ecu sees it proving that the return trigger signal is coming from the sensor to the ecu
bass gt3 said:
which is why you need to be able to access either the pins or cables in the connected connector.
with both sides of the connector together can you not see the cables where they enter either shell? if so, you should be able to get a meter probe onto the crimped part of the pins where the cable is crimped onto the pins or sockets.
from here you can test the sensor as the ecu sees it proving that the return trigger signal is coming from the sensor to the ecu
I agree ... but why do Yamaha say otherwise in the factory manual?with both sides of the connector together can you not see the cables where they enter either shell? if so, you should be able to get a meter probe onto the crimped part of the pins where the cable is crimped onto the pins or sockets.
from here you can test the sensor as the ecu sees it proving that the return trigger signal is coming from the sensor to the ecu
No, both ends are fully sealed which is why last time I spliced into the sensor side of the loom and measured from there.
Mr OCD said:
I agree ... but why do Yamaha say otherwise in the factory manual?
No, both ends are fully sealed which is why last time I spliced into the sensor side of the loom and measured from there.
Yamaha probably want to check the ecu supply voltage only. No, both ends are fully sealed which is why last time I spliced into the sensor side of the loom and measured from there.
another tip is to get the part of the loom with the connector and place them in between the ecu side and sensor. you then have to twist the bare ends together to make it work but you then have a simple test point for all 3 wires. when you're finished, remove the couplers and rejoin the normal connection anx off you go.
you already have one side with the sensors you have, you only need the ecu side connector to make it work. make sense? ??
bass gt3 said:
Yamaha probably want to check the ecu supply voltage only.
another tip is to get the part of the loom with the connector and place them in between the ecu side and sensor. you then have to twist the bare ends together to make it work but you then have a simple test point for all 3 wires. when you're finished, remove the couplers and rejoin the normal connection anx off you go.
you already have one side with the sensors you have, you only need the ecu side connector to make it work. make sense? ??
That makes sense and explains why the readings only change on crank, not continous switching of voltage as the ECU won't know when to switch due to no sensor.another tip is to get the part of the loom with the connector and place them in between the ecu side and sensor. you then have to twist the bare ends together to make it work but you then have a simple test point for all 3 wires. when you're finished, remove the couplers and rejoin the normal connection anx off you go.
you already have one side with the sensors you have, you only need the ecu side connector to make it work. make sense? ??
Not a bad idea... I will have a spare sensor when the new one arrives so can make up a testing loom although if the new sensor doesn't fix the problem then I'm going to have to find someone in the NW who knows more than I do to investigate.
I don't want to get rid of the bike but it's seriously crossing my mind now after being recovered for the 2nd time on the back of a flat bed
Mr OCD said:
That makes sense and explains why the readings only change on crank, not continous switching of voltage as the ECU won't know when to switch due to no sensor.
Not a bad idea... I will have a spare sensor when the new one arrives so can make up a testing loom although if the new sensor doesn't fix the problem then I'm going to have to find someone in the NW who knows more than I do to investigate.
I don't want to get rid of the bike but it's seriously crossing my mind now after being recovered for the 2nd time on the back of a flat bed
I'm willing to bet the new sensor sorts it out. but maybe make the test connector for your own understanding. its really not that difficult Not a bad idea... I will have a spare sensor when the new one arrives so can make up a testing loom although if the new sensor doesn't fix the problem then I'm going to have to find someone in the NW who knows more than I do to investigate.
I don't want to get rid of the bike but it's seriously crossing my mind now after being recovered for the 2nd time on the back of a flat bed
bass gt3 said:
I'm willing to bet the new sensor sorts it out. but maybe make the test connector for your own understanding. its really not that difficult
How much you wanna bet? 
I appreciate the support though chap... I absolutely love this R1 but this issue is really killing my passion for the bike.
I'm currently browsing Fireblades and even the Wife has given me the go-ahead to trade it in if I can sort the finances. The annoying thing is the bike is spot on else... I've spent a lot of time and money in the last 12 months getting it how I want with the only outstanding thing to do is check the valves and balance the throttle bodies!
Mr OCD said:
How much you wanna bet?
I appreciate the support though chap... I absolutely love this R1 but this issue is really killing my passion for the bike.
I'm currently browsing Fireblades and even the Wife has given me the go-ahead to trade it in if I can sort the finances. The annoying thing is the bike is spot on else... I've spent a lot of time and money in the last 12 months getting it how I want with the only outstanding thing to do is check the valves and balance the throttle bodies!
It's a pleasure mate, no thanks necessary. I appreciate the support though chap... I absolutely love this R1 but this issue is really killing my passion for the bike.
I'm currently browsing Fireblades and even the Wife has given me the go-ahead to trade it in if I can sort the finances. The annoying thing is the bike is spot on else... I've spent a lot of time and money in the last 12 months getting it how I want with the only outstanding thing to do is check the valves and balance the throttle bodies!
So if you think about it logically, there's only a couple of possible culprits to this problem.
1. CIS sensor. The most likely suspect and with a brand new sensor going in, it'll prove it one way or another.
2. Wiring. You say that the wiring is A1 especially the connectors. Have you checked the connector where the loom connects to the ECU? It might be slightly corroded or loose, worth a check.
3. The ECU itself. Its possible there's a dry joint or something in the ECU causing the issue but if you eliminate the other 2 suspects first it becomes the logical conclusion.
As for the frustration, it's totally understandable but maybe consider that you didn't replace the CIS sensor with a known good unit so in fact, you're really only just beginning. And if the fault reappears, you'll know 100% it ISN'T the sensor. Then its time to measure cable resistances while joggling the loom to see if there's an intermittent issue.
Lastly, see if you can borrow a known good ECU if you've proven that the sensor AND loom including all connectors are 100%
Real issue is it being a sporadic fault which are always a sod to find.
Does is throw the code ONLY at cranking or when riding too?
bass gt3 said:
It's a pleasure mate, no thanks necessary.
So if you think about it logically, there's only a couple of possible culprits to this problem.
1. CIS sensor. The most likely suspect and with a brand new sensor going in, it'll prove it one way or another.
2. Wiring. You say that the wiring is A1 especially the connectors. Have you checked the connector where the loom connects to the ECU? It might be slightly corroded or loose, worth a check.
3. The ECU itself. Its possible there's a dry joint or something in the ECU causing the issue but if you eliminate the other 2 suspects first it becomes the logical conclusion.
As for the frustration, it's totally understandable but maybe consider that you didn't replace the CIS sensor with a known good unit so in fact, you're really only just beginning. And if the fault reappears, you'll know 100% it ISN'T the sensor. Then its time to measure cable resistances while joggling the loom to see if there's an intermittent issue.
Lastly, see if you can borrow a known good ECU if you've proven that the sensor AND loom including all connectors are 100%
Real issue is it being a sporadic fault which are always a sod to find.
Does is throw the code ONLY at cranking or when riding too?
So if you think about it logically, there's only a couple of possible culprits to this problem.
1. CIS sensor. The most likely suspect and with a brand new sensor going in, it'll prove it one way or another.
2. Wiring. You say that the wiring is A1 especially the connectors. Have you checked the connector where the loom connects to the ECU? It might be slightly corroded or loose, worth a check.
3. The ECU itself. Its possible there's a dry joint or something in the ECU causing the issue but if you eliminate the other 2 suspects first it becomes the logical conclusion.
As for the frustration, it's totally understandable but maybe consider that you didn't replace the CIS sensor with a known good unit so in fact, you're really only just beginning. And if the fault reappears, you'll know 100% it ISN'T the sensor. Then its time to measure cable resistances while joggling the loom to see if there's an intermittent issue.
Lastly, see if you can borrow a known good ECU if you've proven that the sensor AND loom including all connectors are 100%
Real issue is it being a sporadic fault which are always a sod to find.
Does is throw the code ONLY at cranking or when riding too?
1. I really hope so ... if only life would be that easy eh... I was hoping to run this bike up to a six figure mileage as it gets a relatively easy life to speak travelling up and down the motorway most days. It only has 33,000 miles on it now and is truly immaculate and doing 25,000 miles myself on it I'm somewhat rather fond of the old girl.
2. Yes, I have checked that connector... it connects the ignition loom to the ECU - the ignition loom I replaced... I actually checked every single plug in the wiring loom, cleaned it with contact cleaner and gave the pins a light coat of ACF50 for protection against corrosion
3. ECU, I really hope not ... but if I remember correctly from the wiring diagram several sensors run off the same signal wire and therefore logically you'd think I would be getting more error codes?
If it gets to measuring cable resistances I may have to throw it at someone who knows a bit more about bike electronics.
As for the ECU they are key coded ... so would be pretty involved to test it I would assume...
I do have a mate nearby who owns an R1 I can sabotage ...
Mr OCD said:
1. I really hope so ... if only life would be that easy eh... I was hoping to run this bike up to a six figure mileage as it gets a relatively easy life to speak travelling up and down the motorway most days. It only has 33,000 miles on it now and is truly immaculate and doing 25,000 miles myself on it I'm somewhat rather fond of the old girl.
2. Yes, I have checked that connector... it connects the ignition loom to the ECU - the ignition loom I replaced... I actually checked every single plug in the wiring loom, cleaned it with contact cleaner and gave the pins a light coat of ACF50 for protection against corrosion
3. ECU, I really hope not ... but if I remember correctly from the wiring diagram several sensors run off the same signal wire and therefore logically you'd think I would be getting more error codes?
If it gets to measuring cable resistances I may have to throw it at someone who knows a bit more about bike electronics.
As for the ECU they are key coded ... so would be pretty involved to test it I would assume...
I do have a mate nearby who owns an R1 I can sabotage ...
As for the wires, whilst the 5vdc and ground will be used by several other components like tps, baro sensor etc, the return to the ecu is dedicated, so its possible this has a fault. It's a remote possibility however and I'd be pretty confident that the new sensor will sort it out.
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff