Harley Davidson fined $12 million for Emissions avoidance
Discussion
If your company sold more "crap" bikes of a single model, like the Street Glide, than every other bike manufacturer big bike sales combined, in the largest market for these goods in the world, would you change it and do the same as the competition ? thats what Harley do most years. One model outsells all other "big bike" sales on the market put together. When they have tried something different, it has not been such a success...
It might seem crazy to us, but that's reality in the USA; HD really are that dominant in their home market, hence the aftermarket tuning industry for Harley bits is huge too....
It might seem crazy to us, but that's reality in the USA; HD really are that dominant in their home market, hence the aftermarket tuning industry for Harley bits is huge too....
Turn7 said:
Unless things have changed, when I was selling Termis for 999's ect, they all came in a Duc Perf box with an ecu clearly labelled Ducati.
This was clearly a few years back, but I bet its not much differnce now.
Don't know about the deal with Termi from days gone by, last I heard Akrapovic were their "offical" exhaust supplier (hence that's why the Panigale R comes with road legal Akrapovics. They're Italian anyway, so probably eeeeessssss ok. This was clearly a few years back, but I bet its not much differnce now.
The only one that jumps to mind currently for sale is the RCV213S with it's race kit.....
Wildfire said:
Would this encroach into the "race kits" sold with some limited edition bikes?
No, not like what you get with top end MVs etc, they are all in boxes "not for road use " anywayWhat has tripped HD up is they sell their own brand tuning stuff as "options" from dealers. So you see an emissions legal bike in the showroom, test ride it, but the one you pick up could have a stage III big bore kit, straight through pipes and custom map
...HD dealers have been offering these "options" for years. Some of the test bikes at my local dealer had non legal pipes on them....
Crafty_ said:
Last year they made $752m off $6bn revenue, over 260,000 bikes sold. Thats pretty impressive for a "s
t line up" is it not ?
The line up isn't "st", its just not what you think they should sell.
Good post!t line up" is it not ?The line up isn't "s
t", its just not what you think they should sell.I've said on here before, who's daft; Honda who redesign the Fireblade/CBR600 etc from the ground up every four years (or whatever) or Harley who redesign their [insert name of Harley derivative here] every 70 years but sell as many?
Whatever their faults, they're marketing geniuses!
Max5476 said:
They already did, unsurprisingly it didn't particularly hold up in court.
Why's it unsurprising?If you buy a track vehicle it doesn't have to pass any road or regulatory tests. There's many cars that are exported to the U.S. specifically for track use (believe me, I know!) and aren't allowed on the roads. If someone chooses to put that car on the road out there then it's the individuals responsibility to face the consequences, I can't see how a part of a vehicle is any different to a whole vehicle?
srob said:
Why's it unsurprising?
If you buy a track vehicle it doesn't have to pass any road or regulatory tests. There's many cars that are exported to the U.S. specifically for track use (believe me, I know!) and aren't allowed on the roads. If someone chooses to put that car on the road out there then it's the individuals responsibility to face the consequences, I can't see how a part of a vehicle is any different to a whole vehicle?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-harley-david...If you buy a track vehicle it doesn't have to pass any road or regulatory tests. There's many cars that are exported to the U.S. specifically for track use (believe me, I know!) and aren't allowed on the roads. If someone chooses to put that car on the road out there then it's the individuals responsibility to face the consequences, I can't see how a part of a vehicle is any different to a whole vehicle?
It says in that article that the EPA decided it will illegal for anyone to modify any vehicle regardless of it was being used for competition/off road use or not.
Crafty_ said:
Prof Prolapse said:
A lay view but what if HD took this as an opportunity to start producing engines that didn't sound like a wet fart producing less power than a lawnmower?
Harley aren't in the superbike market and nor are their customers, suggesting they dump the v-twin is a bit like saying Ferrari should make diesel supercars, its just not going to happen.I don't see they have anything to gain by making an engine to compete with japanese pocket rockets.
WaferThinHam said:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-harley-david...
It says in that article that the EPA decided it will illegal for anyone to modify any vehicle regardless of it was being used for competition/off road use or not.
So how does that work then?It says in that article that the EPA decided it will illegal for anyone to modify any vehicle regardless of it was being used for competition/off road use or not.
I work for a company that makes cars. Most cars are for the road, but we also make racing cars which are versions of the road cars. If someone chooses to buy, say, a straight through exhaust with no catalysts from a racing car and fit it to their road car (once it's away from site), how can the manufacturer be held responsible?
I get that the individual could be held responsible and charged, but the manufacturer?!
Mastodon2 said:
Because their current line up is exactly what the customers want, perhaps? If they made their engine line more like Victory or Indian selection they'd still sell more because of the HD brand power, but the air-cooled, 45 degree V engines are HD's signature, even if they're not as powerful or efficient as they could be. Buyers don't care, they want potato potato.
If they are so good then why do punters have to change the exhaust, install some new 'tuning device' or whatever it is called, stage whatever kits, cams and so on?Hugo a Gogo said:
never heard of the VROD? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_VRSC
Not a fan of HDs in general but I know a guy with a Night Rod and they're beautiful machines that can happily embarrass a lot of sports bike riders.srob said:
WaferThinHam said:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-harley-david...
It says in that article that the EPA decided it will illegal for anyone to modify any vehicle regardless of it was being used for competition/off road use or not.
So how does that work then?It says in that article that the EPA decided it will illegal for anyone to modify any vehicle regardless of it was being used for competition/off road use or not.
I work for a company that makes cars. Most cars are for the road, but we also make racing cars which are versions of the road cars. If someone chooses to buy, say, a straight through exhaust with no catalysts from a racing car and fit it to their road car (once it's away from site), how can the manufacturer be held responsible?
I get that the individual could be held responsible and charged, but the manufacturer?!
That's X million Harley owners who won't be voting for Hillary...
Edited by gareth_r on Thursday 1st September 13:00
tom_e said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
never heard of the VROD? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_VRSC
Not a fan of HDs in general but I know a guy with a Night Rod and they're beautiful machines that can happily embarrass a lot of sports bike riders.I can see the joy in a HD, friends have them and for touring and cruising they're definitely an interesting option.
rodericb said:
Mastodon2 said:
Because their current line up is exactly what the customers want, perhaps? If they made their engine line more like Victory or Indian selection they'd still sell more because of the HD brand power, but the air-cooled, 45 degree V engines are HD's signature, even if they're not as powerful or efficient as they could be. Buyers don't care, they want potato potato.
If they are so good then why do punters have to change the exhaust, install some new 'tuning device' or whatever it is called, stage whatever kits, cams and so on?Imagine asking your friendly Honda dealer to supply your new CBR1000 with a race can, air filter, and remap (aka stage 1 kit) from new and they add £1500 to the bill and your new CBR1000 arrives with a pipe with no baffles in it. Thats what Harley do, with their "Screamin Eagle" aftermarket parts business .....
George111 said:
tom_e said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
never heard of the VROD? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_VRSC
Not a fan of HDs in general but I know a guy with a Night Rod and they're beautiful machines that can happily embarrass a lot of sports bike riders.I can see the joy in a HD, friends have them and for touring and cruising they're definitely an interesting option.
but z1000s and sports bikes are apples and oranges compared to a big cruiser like a vrod
it's like saying an R1 wouldn't keep up with a CR250 off road, obvious, but meaningless
srob said:
Turn7 said:
Unless things have changed, when I was selling Termis for 999's ect, they all came in a Duc Perf box with an ecu clearly labelled Ducati.
This was clearly a few years back, but I bet its not much differnce now.
Yep, but did it say for track use only?This was clearly a few years back, but I bet its not much differnce now.
If Ducati were to fit them on new bikes then they would be in contravention of something but Ducati Performance is aftermarket kit not OEM so I would imagine that a Ducati dealer fitting them to a customer bike is not doing so on behalf of Ducati and therefore not doing anything wrong?
Maybe HD are too closely linked to their performance parts division?...
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