Labour - how much is too much?
Discussion
theshrew said:
The funny bit is the f
kers in the garages wont know how to fix it anymore than a independent 
I agree with pretty much all of what was said in this post, especially the bits about training and special tools (based on what I know of the car industry rather than bikes)... but surely this is the one area where a dealer has an advantage over an indie? A link to the manufacturer and therefore the support of their technical dept? kers in the garages wont know how to fix it anymore than a independent £80 per hour will most likely have a 55% margin. So £44 of every hour goes towards such things as:-
Paying for 2060 hrs per year but only being able to charge for 1485 due to sickness holidays training diagnostics pushing in and out of workshops. Cleaning bike etc etc. Then contribution towards tooling rent rates and exorbitant insurance.
Reality is that sales will contribute almost nothing to a bike business. Parts will contribute about 15% Accessories have big margins but a lot avoid stocking g them as everyone haggle some nick stuff and the Internet drives prices down making it less worthwhile than it used to be.
So that only leaves the workshop to throw in 20% or so meaning that the total business ends up with about 5 to 7% Roce.
Generally most do it because they cannot sell up it is a really low return business model
A
Paying for 2060 hrs per year but only being able to charge for 1485 due to sickness holidays training diagnostics pushing in and out of workshops. Cleaning bike etc etc. Then contribution towards tooling rent rates and exorbitant insurance.
Reality is that sales will contribute almost nothing to a bike business. Parts will contribute about 15% Accessories have big margins but a lot avoid stocking g them as everyone haggle some nick stuff and the Internet drives prices down making it less worthwhile than it used to be.
So that only leaves the workshop to throw in 20% or so meaning that the total business ends up with about 5 to 7% Roce.
Generally most do it because they cannot sell up it is a really low return business model
A
Superhoop said:
I had a quote from P&H for a 2nd year service, including belts and valve clearances, they came out with an eye watering number of £950 but said that I should expect it to me closer to £1100 by the time they'd finished - it was done by Laguna in Ashford for £670 including a fuel pipe that had been rubbing and wasn't in stock, so they happily kept my bike for a further 14 days whilst I went on holiday...
Wow, that's some difference!! I haven't much to benchmark my experience with this dealer, but costs, for me, seem there or thereabouts. I had a major service on Honda IL4, including valve clearances, fluids, plugs, brake pads & new tyres for some £750.anonymous said:
[redacted]
I know the other costs involved for employing someone... but my best mate is a self employed mechanic (not motorbikes) and charges £35/hr. He has a workshop which would put any motorcycle dealer to shame with the range and cost of his gear, keeps quite a lot stock and will do callouts for no extra above his hourly rate. Another mate is a sparky and charges £20/hr or £160/day, no workshop but all the tools for the job in his van. They all pay tax, NI, etc. I think £35-40hr is fine, but once you get to £80+hr then thats a lot to find for the average man. If a business needs £80hr income and is paying his mechanic £12/hr then it needs its cost structure looking at.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I used to run a main dealership workshop, albeit for cars. We used to employ four technicians plus an apprentice, two service advisors, a driver and of course, me in the department. A valetor was paid for as a fixed cost to a valeting company, again out of our bottom line. Wages made up the bulk of our monthly cost of running the business.Other significant costs were;
-Cost of renting the building we were in (although this was shown in the overall dealership's accounts, not the department's specifically)
-A fleet of courtesy cars, changed at a year old (manufacturer's standard!)-these were bloody expensive when the depreciation write down was taken into account. Of course, main dealer customers demand such niceties!
-Diagnostic equipment rental (paid to the manufacturer) and a subscription to the manufacturer's training program to send our tech's & SA's on
-Energy costs of heating, lighting and electricity
-Contact centre-something I disagree with but could do nothing about; a subscription paid to our head office for the dealer group's contact centre. I'd much rather have done the bookings in house!
-The manufacturer's franchise fee
We made on average a profit of £10k per month. This was then nibbled at by more often than not the sales department making a loss/just breaking even in months such as December (of course they brought it in big time in March and September!). Overall across the year our small dealership all told probably made about £100k profit.
That is not a great deal considering the amounts of capital investment and stock the motor industry runs on-it's pretty highly geared.
Not saying labour costs are right or wrong but merely trying to explain why they are-an independent won't have some of these significant costs. However, where a main dealer needs to provide value is a higher quality of experience for the customer; from a knowledgeable customer advisor, to a clean and tidy building, well equipped waiting area and a highly trained technician who produces exceptionally accurate and consistent work. Unfortunately, quite a few don't provide this experience, which makes £80 p/hour look a rip off.
James 33 said:
A mate took his Harley to the local dealers today. £96 an hour they charge! Fitted 2 tyres that he supplied and rebuilt his front master cylinder. £300 that cost him.
Ouch!!This sort of hourly rate is presumably H-D standard(??), similar to BMW. Seems just too much to me.
Biker 1 said:
James 33 said:
A mate took his Harley to the local dealers today. £96 an hour they charge! Fitted 2 tyres that he supplied and rebuilt his front master cylinder. £300 that cost him.
Ouch!!This sort of hourly rate is presumably H-D standard(??), similar to BMW. Seems just too much to me.
Works out cheap after you f#ck it you yourself or pay someone incompetent
Biker 1 said:
James 33 said:
A mate took his Harley to the local dealers today. £96 an hour they charge! Fitted 2 tyres that he supplied and rebuilt his front master cylinder. £300 that cost him.
Ouch!!This sort of hourly rate is presumably H-D standard(??), similar to BMW. Seems just too much to me.
In the time it took you make this post, £96/hour actually became a very good rate to pay a main dealer mechanic, and H-D actually released some "modern" engines which may genuinely require specialist knowledge to work on.
"Time [usually] makes fools of us all", but in your case it actually made you correct.
"Time [usually] makes fools of us all", but in your case it actually made you correct.
Let's get this straight
Price is hardly related to cost.
Price is related to what the customer is happy to pay, given that its a free market. Also includes the intellectual property of knowing what to do and how to do it. Nobody argues about solicitors rates much do they. Because... Can you do it yourself?
Price is hardly related to cost.
Price is related to what the customer is happy to pay, given that its a free market. Also includes the intellectual property of knowing what to do and how to do it. Nobody argues about solicitors rates much do they. Because... Can you do it yourself?
Pit Pony said:
Let's get this straight
Price is hardly related to cost.
Price is related to what the customer is happy to pay, given that its a free market. Also includes the intellectual property of knowing what to do and how to do it. Nobody argues about solicitors rates much do they. Because... Can you do it yourself?
That sounds like one of those arguments put forward by dodgy tradesmen who spend their days ripping off old people.Price is hardly related to cost.
Price is related to what the customer is happy to pay, given that its a free market. Also includes the intellectual property of knowing what to do and how to do it. Nobody argues about solicitors rates much do they. Because... Can you do it yourself?
Depends if they adhere to book times.
The headline hourly rate isn't the be all and end all if someone is charging 3hrs labour despite the job taking half an hour in reality.
Thank god I do my own work. Not sure how everyone else affords stuff if they have to pay a man to do everything for them.
The headline hourly rate isn't the be all and end all if someone is charging 3hrs labour despite the job taking half an hour in reality.
Thank god I do my own work. Not sure how everyone else affords stuff if they have to pay a man to do everything for them.
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Wednesday 22 March 18:51
fred bloggs said:
Biker 1 said:
James 33 said:
A mate took his Harley to the local dealers today. £96 an hour they charge! Fitted 2 tyres that he supplied and rebuilt his front master cylinder. £300 that cost him.
Ouch!!This sort of hourly rate is presumably H-D standard(??), similar to BMW. Seems just too much to me.
Works out cheap after you f#ck it you yourself or pay someone incompetent
Sorry I think over £60 is too much considering most owners won't be on anywhere near themselves.
Fine that there's staffing etc costs but it could ultimately contribute to a shrinking motorbike market.
Why? Mote complexity, more electronics in new bikes equals less self spannering equals people just not bothering further down the line as the bikes age.
I was quoted £55 to change a headlight bulb on my old 1200RT by the local bmw garage. How is hobby motorbiking affordable?
I've no issue is BMW mechanics are paid a premium over say Honda etc which are lower Per hour rates.
Good to see Honda rates at reasonable prices.
Fine that there's staffing etc costs but it could ultimately contribute to a shrinking motorbike market.
Why? Mote complexity, more electronics in new bikes equals less self spannering equals people just not bothering further down the line as the bikes age.
I was quoted £55 to change a headlight bulb on my old 1200RT by the local bmw garage. How is hobby motorbiking affordable?
I've no issue is BMW mechanics are paid a premium over say Honda etc which are lower Per hour rates.
Good to see Honda rates at reasonable prices.
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