The friendly "dumb" bike questions thread
Discussion
Gibonz said:
How dangerous are manholes covers or wet manholes covers in corners?
Recommended tactics for dealing with them when they cant be avoided?
Cheers
They are slippery, best case is be as upright as possible relax and do nothing, you pass over them in a fraction of a second at speed, if you have to brake then the abs will deal with the locked wheel, if you don't have abs don't touch the brakes.Recommended tactics for dealing with them when they cant be avoided?
Cheers
Gibonz said:
When a bike doesnt have ABS, and when performing hard braking/emergency stops, why does the front wheel not lock up?
It will if you brake hard enough/suddenly enough, depends what you're doing.Most of the time the brakes are applied slowly enough that the weight transfer squashes the front tyre and increases the available grip massively.
Krikkit said:
Gibonz said:
When a bike doesnt have ABS, and when performing hard braking/emergency stops, why does the front wheel not lock up?
It will if you brake hard enough/suddenly enough, depends what you're doing.Most of the time the brakes are applied slowly enough that the weight transfer squashes the front tyre and increases the available grip massively.
And the reverse on the back, so if you're braking hard at the front, go steady with the back brake. The extra weight at the front, resulting in extra braking grip at the front, is being 'borrowed' from the rear tyre, which is getting lighter and lighter the harder you brake.
anonymous said:
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Unless it's wet or slippery, it's exactly the opposite for most folks - even in an emergency. Many just don't realise just how hard you can BRAKE; it's difficult to learn unless you have ABS and pull to the max to see when it kicks in, or without ABS get ready to release the BRAKE as soon as it locks before landing on your ear. Quite a few cars now have some sort of emergency BRAKE assist, where if the car thinks you're braking hard it actually applies more pressure because what the driver thinks is 'braking hard' actually isn't. I did a massive involuntary stoppie on a non ABS bike some years ago. I went to overtake an old dear, who decided to turn right at the very last moment - no indicators.... How I avoided going over the bars I have no idea!
I am now a fan of ABS - I have tried braking from 60mph as hard as possible. It is astonishing how quickly you can come to a halt, particularly with decent rubber, nice new pads & a fluid change!
I am now a fan of ABS - I have tried braking from 60mph as hard as possible. It is astonishing how quickly you can come to a halt, particularly with decent rubber, nice new pads & a fluid change!
I was at the MCN show at Peterborough years ago, and BMW were doing test rides on F650GS, with Simon Pavey instructing. Not many people showing up so we had a pretty long session with him , one of things was getting us to lock the front (on grass), and hold it as long as possible. It's amazing how long you can keep the bike upright with the front locked before you need to release it and straighten up. I can see why a lot people say learning some offroad skills is good for your road riding.
RizzoTheRat said:
I was at the MCN show at Peterborough years ago, and BMW were doing test rides on F650GS, with Simon Pavey instructing. Not many people showing up so we had a pretty long session with him , one of things was getting us to lock the front (on grass), and hold it as long as possible. It's amazing how long you can keep the bike upright with the front locked before you need to release it and straighten up. I can see why a lot people say learning some offroad skills is good for your road riding.
I can imagine it is. In a similar vein, how some scrambler experience as a junior is useful for top-level track racing. For example Casey Stoner.Krikkit said:
Gibonz said:
When a bike doesnt have ABS, and when performing hard braking/emergency stops, why does the front wheel not lock up?
It will if you brake hard enough/suddenly enough, depends what you're doing.Most of the time the brakes are applied slowly enough that the weight transfer squashes the front tyre and increases the available grip massively.
I had an old git pull out on me with no warning - I grabbed the brakes and locked the front - I'm unsure whether I released because it locked or whether I had braked enough by then but either way I'd slowed enough and stayed upright - it's the only time I've locked the front
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Not all non-ABS bikes will lift the rear before the front locks. Short wheelbase sports bikes will but longer wheelbase bikes will lock the front wheel in the dry, on a good surface, before the rear lifts off the ground.Some of the training I have done included finding a quiet section of road with a good, flat surface, then braking from about 40mph hard enough to lock the front wheel. This was on a non-ABS bike. The front wheel slide was "controlled" enough to allow a quick release of the brake. It showed just how much braking was actually available if/when it was needed in an emergency.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Is the risk of lifting the back wheel not an issue with ABS? It is something I've wondered despite never coming close to doing it. I was under the impression that some bikes can detect rear lifting, but thought that others will allow you to go straight over the handlebars if you try hard enough, but I've no idea how hard that is to do. ETA: The post above suggests you can reach maximum braking on some bikes without flipping.
Prof Prolapse said:
I would have thought, maximum front braking would only come about if the weight shifted massively to the front, i.e. rear wheel light, or even off the ground.
Assuming you had enough grip of course.
Guessing now, but maybe among the plethora of sensors on an ABS-equipped bike is something on the swing-arm that knows when full extension is reached.Assuming you had enough grip of course.
If the goal of ABS is maximum breaking without losing the ability to steer, then when it knows the rear wheel is unweighted, it backs off the front braking pressure a tad, to allow the rider to retain directional authority?
ETA: just realised I said 'retain directional authority' when I should have said 'steer'.
What a divvy.
Edited by SpeckledJim on Friday 9th July 12:37
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