The friendly "dumb" bike questions thread
Discussion
Berty3000 said:
If going on a tour, do you guys take the tools to adjust the drive train? Or would you just drop into garages and have them do it along the way. Do garages charge much for that?
The bikes basic toolkit will hold the tools for adjusting your chain. Or if not, take them with you, adjust the chain at your leisure instead of running around finding and paying a shop to do it.Gavia said:
You’re new to riding, it’s very relaxing and easy once you get some experience under your belt it’s exactly the same as it was when you learned to drive and used to drive tense until the experience kicked in.
The weirdest thing is why someone in rural Scotland would be considering buying a bike on one of the coldest evenings of the year. I reckon he’d struggle to get more than 8 months a year out of riding in that locality, so would need to keep and maintain a car as well.
I can't agree with that when it comes to normal day to day riding around town/commuting I've been riding for just over 3 years and do over 10k miles a year and it's certainly much more draining and requires more concentration than driving. Going out for a nice blast on some quiet roads in the sunshine is different though and I agree quite relaxing.The weirdest thing is why someone in rural Scotland would be considering buying a bike on one of the coldest evenings of the year. I reckon he’d struggle to get more than 8 months a year out of riding in that locality, so would need to keep and maintain a car as well.
King Herald said:
Berty3000 said:
If going on a tour, do you guys take the tools to adjust the drive train? Or would you just drop into garages and have them do it along the way. Do garages charge much for that?
The bikes basic toolkit will hold the tools for adjusting your chain. Or if not, take them with you, adjust the chain at your leisure instead of running around finding and paying a shop to do it.Correctly adjusted, you barely have to adjust the chain between services.
Rubin215 said:
King Herald said:
Berty3000 said:
If going on a tour, do you guys take the tools to adjust the drive train? Or would you just drop into garages and have them do it along the way. Do garages charge much for that?
The bikes basic toolkit will hold the tools for adjusting your chain. Or if not, take them with you, adjust the chain at your leisure instead of running around finding and paying a shop to do it.Correctly adjusted, you barely have to adjust the chain between services.
Don't those scotoilers cause sprayed oil to go all over the place?
It's a ball ache to have to adjust the drive train so often, but I need to learn so I'll pay a mechanic to show me for the first one, which will be due soon. I'll need to buy a torque wrench.
Edited by Berty3000 on Thursday 28th December 21:20
Berty3000 said:
Rubin215 said:
King Herald said:
Berty3000 said:
If going on a tour, do you guys take the tools to adjust the drive train? Or would you just drop into garages and have them do it along the way. Do garages charge much for that?
The bikes basic toolkit will hold the tools for adjusting your chain. Or if not, take them with you, adjust the chain at your leisure instead of running around finding and paying a shop to do it.Correctly adjusted, you barely have to adjust the chain between services.
Don't those scotoilers cause sprayed oil to go all over the place?
It's a ball ache to have to adjust the drive train so often, but I need to learn so I'll pay a mechanic to show me for the first one, which will be due soon. I'll need to buy a torque wrench.
Edited by Berty3000 on Thursday 28th December 21:20
A Scotoiler produces a constant drip of oil onto the rear sprocket which then works it's way inside the rollers to where it's really needed; chain spray doesn't really do this unless the chain is hot when you spray it.
Some people complain that Scotoilers throw lube all over the back wheel, but then some people either don't know how to read instructions properly or just blindly repeat what someone else wrote on the internet...
Rubin215 said:
Chains don't stretch, they wear, and as they wear they become longer; a properly lubricated chain wears much less than a dry one so lasts longer and needs less adjustment.
A Scotoiler produces a constant drip of oil onto the rear sprocket which then works it's way inside the rollers to where it's really needed; chain spray doesn't really do this unless the chain is hot when you spray it.
Some people complain that Scotoilers throw lube all over the back wheel, but then some people either don't know how to read instructions properly or just blindly repeat what someone else wrote on the internet...
On a good quality O ringed chain no lube will get inside the chain, past the seals, they are there to keep the factory grease in, and much and water out. The Scotoiler merely keeps the outside lubed. Metal on dry metal is nasty horrible stuff, so keeping the outside protected is a good thing. A Scotoiler produces a constant drip of oil onto the rear sprocket which then works it's way inside the rollers to where it's really needed; chain spray doesn't really do this unless the chain is hot when you spray it.
Some people complain that Scotoilers throw lube all over the back wheel, but then some people either don't know how to read instructions properly or just blindly repeat what someone else wrote on the internet...
King Herald said:
Rubin215 said:
Chains don't stretch, they wear, and as they wear they become longer; a properly lubricated chain wears much less than a dry one so lasts longer and needs less adjustment.
A Scotoiler produces a constant drip of oil onto the rear sprocket which then works it's way inside the rollers to where it's really needed; chain spray doesn't really do this unless the chain is hot when you spray it.
Some people complain that Scotoilers throw lube all over the back wheel, but then some people either don't know how to read instructions properly or just blindly repeat what someone else wrote on the internet...
On a good quality O ringed chain no lube will get inside the chain, past the seals, they are there to keep the factory grease in, and much and water out. The Scotoiler merely keeps the outside lubed. Metal on dry metal is nasty horrible stuff, so keeping the outside protected is a good thing. A Scotoiler produces a constant drip of oil onto the rear sprocket which then works it's way inside the rollers to where it's really needed; chain spray doesn't really do this unless the chain is hot when you spray it.
Some people complain that Scotoilers throw lube all over the back wheel, but then some people either don't know how to read instructions properly or just blindly repeat what someone else wrote on the internet...
The rollers are outside the bushes and need lubricated to stop them wearing on the bushes and the teeth of the sprocket; that is why we lubricate chains.
tom_e said:
I can't agree with that when it comes to normal day to day riding around town/commuting I've been riding for just over 3 years and do over 10k miles a year and it's certainly much more draining and requires more concentration than driving. Going out for a nice blast on some quiet roads in the sunshine is different though and I agree quite relaxing.
It may be a very personal thing. I've been riding now for ~28 years (:-() and I think averaged a bit over 10,000 miles a year over that time.Given good conditions I find country roads more stressful than London commuting - the speeds/energies can be so much higher if I make a mistake.
In bad conditions I find London worse - you can't slow down as much without drowning in traffic wanting (not unreasonably) to get past, so there's no way to use speed to make space and there's extra workload of other vehicles in close proximity.
Driving in good conditions I find more draining but that's partly a practice thing (I ride much more than I drive) and partly my "style" is based around using acceleration to manage a bubble of space, and that's tricky in the vehicles I drive. Bad conditions certainly start to favour the 4 wheelers, simply due to better confidence/stability when hard on the brakes.
Berty3000 said:
If going on a tour, do you guys take the tools to adjust the drive train? Or would you just drop into garages and have them do it along the way. Do garages charge much for that?
Unless your chain's knacked or it's a long tour I highly doubt you would need to adjust it before you get back.I check/adjust the chain tension when servicing or tyre changing, so probably annually. I can't recall needing to adjust in between, I tend to run slightly on the loose side anyway, to allow for any tight spots that all chains will get sooner or later, regardless of how well you care for it.
Thanks for the responses re chain.
A bloke at a bike shop, when I went to view a bike, said the chain needs to be checked and adjusted every 500 miles. I asked, what if I don't? And he said "you'll f
k it up". My bike's user manual says chain should be checked/adjusted every 600 miles.
I've done about 600 since getting it. So don't want to cause damage to chain or anything else, or end up in a nasty situation. So how many miles do you guys leave it before adjusting? I have to admit, 500 seems a bit of a pain.
A bloke at a bike shop, when I went to view a bike, said the chain needs to be checked and adjusted every 500 miles. I asked, what if I don't? And he said "you'll f
k it up". My bike's user manual says chain should be checked/adjusted every 600 miles. I've done about 600 since getting it. So don't want to cause damage to chain or anything else, or end up in a nasty situation. So how many miles do you guys leave it before adjusting? I have to admit, 500 seems a bit of a pain.
After a chain is worn in I probably adjust it when i change tyres which is usually a few thousand miles, on a few occasions i've adjusted it as it's been little looser than i like but they really don't need adjusting that often.
Checking is something else though, i usually always have a look at the chain before i take the bike out as it takes merely a second.
In your manual it will give to a measurement of how much movement you should have on your chain, this measurement will be taken in the middle between the two sprockets, usually you'll be looking at the measurement of the difference between the lowest and highest point in the slack. Usually this is around 10-30mm but IS make and model dependant so check your manual.
Checking is something else though, i usually always have a look at the chain before i take the bike out as it takes merely a second.
In your manual it will give to a measurement of how much movement you should have on your chain, this measurement will be taken in the middle between the two sprockets, usually you'll be looking at the measurement of the difference between the lowest and highest point in the slack. Usually this is around 10-30mm but IS make and model dependant so check your manual.
Edited by MrGman on Thursday 28th December 23:23
MrGman said:
After a chain is worn in I probably adjust it when i change tyres which is usually a few thousand miles, on a few occasions i've adjusted it as it's been little looser than i like but they really don't need adjusting that often.
Checking is something else though, i usually always have a look at the chain before i take the bike out as it takes merely a second.
In your manual it will give to a measurement of how much movement you should have on your chain, this measurement will be taken in the middle between the two sprockets, usually you'll be looking at the measurement of the difference between the lowest and highest point in the slack. Usually this is around 10-30mm but IS make and model dependant so check your manual.
Yeah, mine is 45-55mm high to low when on that centre stand. Guess I'll just keep checking then. I'll be chuffed if adjustments are as infrequent as you guys are saying. Checking is something else though, i usually always have a look at the chain before i take the bike out as it takes merely a second.
In your manual it will give to a measurement of how much movement you should have on your chain, this measurement will be taken in the middle between the two sprockets, usually you'll be looking at the measurement of the difference between the lowest and highest point in the slack. Usually this is around 10-30mm but IS make and model dependant so check your manual.
Edited by MrGman on Thursday 28th December 23:23
Rubin215 said:
King Herald said:
Rubin215 said:
Chains don't stretch, they wear, and as they wear they become longer; a properly lubricated chain wears much less than a dry one so lasts longer and needs less adjustment.
A Scotoiler produces a constant drip of oil onto the rear sprocket which then works it's way inside the rollers to where it's really needed; chain spray doesn't really do this unless the chain is hot when you spray it.
Some people complain that Scotoilers throw lube all over the back wheel, but then some people either don't know how to read instructions properly or just blindly repeat what someone else wrote on the internet...
On a good quality O ringed chain no lube will get inside the chain, past the seals, they are there to keep the factory grease in, and much and water out. The Scotoiler merely keeps the outside lubed. Metal on dry metal is nasty horrible stuff, so keeping the outside protected is a good thing. A Scotoiler produces a constant drip of oil onto the rear sprocket which then works it's way inside the rollers to where it's really needed; chain spray doesn't really do this unless the chain is hot when you spray it.
Some people complain that Scotoilers throw lube all over the back wheel, but then some people either don't know how to read instructions properly or just blindly repeat what someone else wrote on the internet...
The rollers are outside the bushes and need lubricated to stop them wearing on the bushes and the teeth of the sprocket; that is why we lubricate chains.
Berty3000 said:
Thanks for the responses re chain.
A bloke at a bike shop, when I went to view a bike, said the chain needs to be checked and adjusted every 500 miles. I asked, what if I don't? And he said "you'll fk it up". My bike's user manual says chain should be checked/adjusted every 600 miles.
I've done about 600 since getting it. So don't want to cause damage to chain or anything else, or end up in a nasty situation. So how many miles do you guys leave it before adjusting? I have to admit, 500 seems a bit of a pain.
You can check it as often as you like. But you only adjust it when it needs it. Nobody can give you a mileage when to adjust it, because it might not need it. A bloke at a bike shop, when I went to view a bike, said the chain needs to be checked and adjusted every 500 miles. I asked, what if I don't? And he said "you'll f
k it up". My bike's user manual says chain should be checked/adjusted every 600 miles. I've done about 600 since getting it. So don't want to cause damage to chain or anything else, or end up in a nasty situation. So how many miles do you guys leave it before adjusting? I have to admit, 500 seems a bit of a pain.
It should ideally be checked when the bike is on its wheels, with you sat on it at ride height. You’ll need someone to help you do it like that. On the centre stand it may well be different tension to when it is actually being used, but once you get an idea you can work out how much slack it needs and then check it in a couple of minutes on the stand.
Every time you wash the bike is an easy simple way to go. Also inspect it in several positions, turn the wheel and check it in a half dozen places for tight spots.
King Herald said:
Berty3000 said:
Thanks for the responses re chain.
A bloke at a bike shop, when I went to view a bike, said the chain needs to be checked and adjusted every 500 miles. I asked, what if I don't? And he said "you'll fk it up". My bike's user manual says chain should be checked/adjusted every 600 miles.
I've done about 600 since getting it. So don't want to cause damage to chain or anything else, or end up in a nasty situation. So how many miles do you guys leave it before adjusting? I have to admit, 500 seems a bit of a pain.
You can check it as often as you like. But you only adjust it when it needs it. Nobody can give you a mileage when to adjust it, because it might not need it. A bloke at a bike shop, when I went to view a bike, said the chain needs to be checked and adjusted every 500 miles. I asked, what if I don't? And he said "you'll f
k it up". My bike's user manual says chain should be checked/adjusted every 600 miles. I've done about 600 since getting it. So don't want to cause damage to chain or anything else, or end up in a nasty situation. So how many miles do you guys leave it before adjusting? I have to admit, 500 seems a bit of a pain.
It should ideally be checked when the bike is on its wheels, with you sat on it at ride height. You’ll need someone to help you do it like that. On the centre stand it may well be different tension to when it is actually being used, but once you get an idea you can work out how much slack it needs and then check it in a couple of minutes on the stand.
Every time you wash the bike is an easy simple way to go. Also inspect it in several positions, turn the wheel and check it in a half dozen places for tight spots.
Gavia said:
The whole chain thing is stuck in the 70s.
I’ve run bikes for 3-4 years putting 15000 miles per annum on them and never replaced the chain, or adjusted it, other than servicing. Ditto on my race bikes.
Stop fretting.
I'm new here, but I get the impression you prefer riding in decent weather (fair enough!) - what I've found causes chain wear is riding in bad weather, especially something like a long motorway run in heavy rain so you've no hope of keeping any lubricant in place.I’ve run bikes for 3-4 years putting 15000 miles per annum on them and never replaced the chain, or adjusted it, other than servicing. Ditto on my race bikes.
Stop fretting.
Berty3000 said:
Thanks. User manual says to use centre stand, so I assume that is how it must be done on my bike. How much pressure do you apply when pushing the chain up and down? Is it as hard as you can make it go, or or just until the chain resists going further?
Unless the chain is worn (so it slides in and out of the "peaks" on the sprockets) for a properly lubricated chain there's remarkably little difference between how far it moves under varying forces.Chain tend to wear unevenly - you want the correct tension when the chain is in the tightest part of its rotation.
Berty3000 said:
Thanks. User manual says to use centre stand, so I assume that is how it must be done on my bike. How much pressure do you apply when pushing the chain up and down? Is it as hard as you can make it go, or or just until the chain resists going further?
It will only move a certain distance then stop pretty firmly. If the manual says check it on the stand, and tells you how far it should move, then that makes life easier.
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