Potentially lethal oil filter
Discussion
moto_traxport said:
On another subject - be careful / wear gloves if the drive chain has been affected by the fire. Some o-ring chains produce some horrible flesh eating ooze (technical term) if they've been on fire for some time. Not just red mark on skin type horribleness but finger amputation type stuff.
No they don't.That's a new version of the old myth about o rings producing hydrofluoric acid when heated.
They don't.
Only filter I've ever had an issue with was a K and N (last year). I did the usual hand tight, but after a short trip noticed oil dripping from under engine which turned out to be the filter. I had to tighten it using the nut, but felt I was going to break something in order to get a seal. Fortunately it sealed, but doing my research on line, it appeared there have been similar issues especially in the US. This wasn't on a bike, but my V8 Chevy Morris Minor, but principle is the same.
On my bikes I only use genuine filters. I think there must be a relatively recent quality issue with K and N as I've used them in the past, but won't again.
Pete
On my bikes I only use genuine filters. I think there must be a relatively recent quality issue with K and N as I've used them in the past, but won't again.
Pete
Rubin215 said:
moto_traxport said:
On another subject - be careful / wear gloves if the drive chain has been affected by the fire. Some o-ring chains produce some horrible flesh eating ooze (technical term) if they've been on fire for some time. Not just red mark on skin type horribleness but finger amputation type stuff.
No they don't.That's a new version of the old myth about o rings producing hydrofluoric acid when heated.
They don't.
A million (i.e. 25) years ago a report went out (by race marshalls I think) to respect fire damaged bikes in this respect, if it's since proved to be b
ks then apologies.Wasn't aware that it allegedly (doesn't - clearly) involve production of hydro-flouric acid. Ironically, I've just installed an emergency shower for people machining aircraft parts who do actually use this stuff and chatting to their H&S chap it's almost comically dangerous so no wonder people get excited if they think it might be produced by accident.
moto_traxport said:
Rubin215 said:
moto_traxport said:
On another subject - be careful / wear gloves if the drive chain has been affected by the fire. Some o-ring chains produce some horrible flesh eating ooze (technical term) if they've been on fire for some time. Not just red mark on skin type horribleness but finger amputation type stuff.
No they don't.That's a new version of the old myth about o rings producing hydrofluoric acid when heated.
They don't.
A million (i.e. 25) years ago a report went out (by race marshalls I think) to respect fire damaged bikes in this respect, if it's since proved to be b
ks then apologies.Wasn't aware that it allegedly (doesn't - clearly) involve production of hydro-flouric acid. Ironically, I've just installed an emergency shower for people machining aircraft parts who do actually use this stuff and chatting to their H&S chap it's almost comically dangerous so no wonder people get excited if they think it might be produced by accident.
The o-ring myth comes from an experiment in the early 80's where viton (what o-rings are made of) was heated up under pressure; they discovered that it releases hydrogen fluoride gas (which, can combine with water to produce the acid).
When the experiment was being dismantled, something leaked out onto someone's hands and they ended up with a bad burn and some dead kittens so the knee-jerk reaction was to warn everyone not to touch vehicle components that had been burnt .
If o-rings, seals etc are involved in fire, the hydrogen fluoride gas simply escapes into the atmosphere.
Bordtea said:
Well I've got a K&N oil filter sat next to me at the moment waiting to go on the Speed Triple this week... this has certainly given me second thoughts! Although I have one on there currently and all has been well, I'll be very careful not to overtighten!
Just fit a genuine one, they're only £13 off eBay Rubin215 said:
If o-rings, seals etc are involved in fire, the hydrogen fluoride gas simply escapes into the atmosphere.
On my Guzzi the link pipe under the engine, between the cans is sealed into each can with a large 'O' ring. I had a problem that the flange broke off the header pipe so after welding it back I replaced the 'O' rings with Nitrile rings as the originals were burnt up but, due to the repair failing again shortly afterwards I had to remove it for a 'proper' repair (fitted new flange rather than welding back the jagged, cracked one) and one of the two 'O' rings had completely burnt out, the other had just traces remaining.Looking into 'O' ring material temperature resistance it appears that Viton is the best, withstanding double the temperature that Nitrile will, so I've now fitted Viton 'O' rings in there.
Will see how they hold up at next removal unless, of course it gets all breaking bad on me...
Well I would like to thank the OP for posting this as my GSXR is due for an oil and oil filter change this year and I have been eyeing up the K&N filter with attached nut as I have become a torque wrench wh0re, and I have also seen the torque settings quote in service manuals. Will be using an OEM one to be safe.
Fortunately for me all previous oil filter changes I have done have been done by hand. The last on my Honda required so much force to get the old one off I buckled the outer casing using a removal tool.
Fortunately for me all previous oil filter changes I have done have been done by hand. The last on my Honda required so much force to get the old one off I buckled the outer casing using a removal tool.
HustleRussell said:
Well I'm just saying I'd buy OEM, or an OEM supplier and quality aftermarket such as Mahle or Fram. In my industry filtration equipment is big business, we send tenders out for highly specialist filters and scrubbers which utilise complex technologies and exotic materials, Mahle and Fram are the big players, it is what they do.
I'd happily buy a Mahle filter (pretty much all I use on the cars), but my experience with FRAM is that they are very much built to a tight budget and it shows in the overall quality e.g. less filter media, cardboard end caps, very thin cans etc. They probably work ok in the vast majority of cases, but for me a top quality part is well worth the the minimal cost difference.EagleMoto4-2 said:
Well I would like to thank the OP for posting this as my GSXR is due for an oil and oil filter change this year and I have been eyeing up the K&N filter with attached nut as I have become a torque wrench wh0re, and I have also seen the torque settings quote in service manuals. Will be using an OEM one to be safe.
Fortunately for me all previous oil filter changes I have done have been done by hand. The last on my Honda required so much force to get the old one off I buckled the outer casing using a removal tool.
And you're not the first one to have come across idiotically tight filters. Unlikely to have been fitted by hand.Fortunately for me all previous oil filter changes I have done have been done by hand. The last on my Honda required so much force to get the old one off I buckled the outer casing using a removal tool.
Gunk said:
I can't understand why anyone fits an aftermarket oil filter, a Genuine filter is not exactly expensive.
Lower pressure drop than stock (upto 30%) plus lots of aftermarket ones contain magnets that collect fine metallic particles which would otherwise circulate through the system and cause wear.I don't really rate K&N, their air filters cause so many issues when it comes to the oil coating fouling the MAF.
It's not exactly convenient pulling all the lower fairings off your sportsbike, draining the oil and sending back a dirty old oil filter that costs about a tenner, I can't see many bothering.
But their website states
IF YOU HAVE VERIFIED THAT YOU HAVE A KN-204 OIL FILTER INSTALLED ON YOUR MOTORCYCLE OR POWERSPORT MACHINE THAT HAS ONE OF THE SEVEN LISTED DATE CODES, THEN DO NOT OPERATE IT, UNTIL THE OIL FILTER IS REPLACED.
So are K&N going to pay for 3 litres of oil and an hours labour, so you can safely ride your bike without their ste substandard part fitted? I doubt it.
But their website states
IF YOU HAVE VERIFIED THAT YOU HAVE A KN-204 OIL FILTER INSTALLED ON YOUR MOTORCYCLE OR POWERSPORT MACHINE THAT HAS ONE OF THE SEVEN LISTED DATE CODES, THEN DO NOT OPERATE IT, UNTIL THE OIL FILTER IS REPLACED.
So are K&N going to pay for 3 litres of oil and an hours labour, so you can safely ride your bike without their s
te substandard part fitted? I doubt it.Edited by Gunk on Wednesday 13th September 20:59
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