Members racing thread

[George29]

stew-STR160 said:

Looking forward to seeing some reports from Graeme and anyone else who did the 10hr.


Mine from Donington...well, it was wet! Very wet.

Four races over the two days, three of which were truly wet. Qualy was dry on Saturday morning, until the last few minutes when the rain started. The second race on Saturday was a drying track. Races one, three, and four...see the picture below of Coppice...

I came away with my best race weekend yet, and some of the best battles I've ever had. Reinforcing my love for this racing stuff.
I scored, in order, 12th, 9th, 8th, 10th. My best finish ever in Golden Era Supersport being the 8th.

Absolutely gutted about the 10th in the last race as I'm sure I could have got 7th by my tyres were shot from the drying race on Saturday afternoon. So the two wet races on Sunday were hard. I lost the back end out of Mcleans in the last race so backed off and lost a place as I decided not to risk it, just get home in the points...

Good effort! Donington is horrible in the wet, don’t envy you being out in that!

[George29]

Lindun said:

Here’s one of the reports from Anglesey.

10 hours, 10 effing hours! It seemed like a good idea at the time and it turned out to be just that. We entered a team of four, with three of us being 50 or over, so we were a proper bunch of old farts.

The team was quite mixed as, although we’d been committed to it for a long time, a couple of the team had some issues over the early part of the year that were still being overcome. One had a new bike, that they simply can’t gel with, the other a fairly major crash (again on a new bike) so our aim was to finish, ideally without incident and see where that put us at the end.

We started out with a simple plan of doing 2 x 40 minute and 2 x 35 minute stints each and adapting that as the race unfolded with safety cars / fitness etc. I was amazed how quickly the 2 hour downtime between stints flew by. It seemed like there was no time to rest before you were out again.

One key part of our team brief was that no matter what you never, ever pit on a Safety Car. That turned out to be a surprisingly important rule, as 2 of the first 3 riders stints had a Safety Car come out on their in lap, so they stayed out.

My stints went by in what seemed like a flash and I was pleased with the times getting down to a decent amount of 1:34s and settling in to a consistent 1:35/36 run, all the while pushing through slower traffic and being overtaken by the faster guys. To put some of the speeds into perspective the team that won (which was full of current and ex SuperStock1000 riders) was doing a best of 1:27 and consistent 1:29/31, whereas there were other bikes out there doing nearer 2 minute laps. I did have a few moments, either where other riders were a bit erratic, or I was being slightly optimistic with a few overtakes, but managed to stay upright.

Concentration was the biggest challenge for me. I’ve worked hard on my fitness, so had no issues physically, but mental exhaustion was most definitely a factor for me. All the team managed to complete their stints without incident and we moved up from a qualifying position of P27 overall / P12 in class to an end result of P21 overall / P10 in class.

We did 352 laps in the end, I did 99 of them!

As an overall summary the riding out there was of a very high standard with only two Safety Cars, both of which were just for tidying up and could’ve been done under yellows and few other crashes. Given the whole race covered 31000 miles which is 1.25 times round the world it was very impressive. Only one team failed to finish and that was due to mechanical issues, with another team being disqualified for breaking the control tyre rule. Maybe something for the trackday people to consider when worrying about crashing when they do trackdays.

One or more of my teammates may add their own take on the race later on. I’ve not covered their views off as it’s up to them obviously and no point stealing their thunder.

A couple of gratuitous action shots.

Well done. Just finishing it is a good result but even better to make up places.

Looked hectic out there with the difference in pace, they should bring in some kind of 110% qualifying time rule per class, it’s almost dangerous having teams with 30 seconds per lap difference out together.

That and getting rid of the control tyre would be great!

[Lindun]

George29 said:

Well done. Just finishing it is a good result but even better to make up places.

Looked hectic out there with the difference in pace, they should bring in some kind of 110% qualifying time rule per class, it’s almost dangerous having teams with 30 seconds per lap difference out together.

That and getting rid of the control tyre would be great!

Thanks.

The tyre is a tough one as it’s a control tyre for the whole championship. Without it then the costs would increase, as it subsidises the costs a little and there is quite a spread of choice across the Pirelli / Metzeler range.

110% across classes would probably still be being achieved when you consider the twins class which was the one with the CB500s. Personally I don’t think they should be out there, as it was pretty mental at times.

Then there’s the challenges intra-team. We had quite a big spread, as did a few others. It’d be harsh to lose your £1000 entry fee by missing out on that. I think with endurance that’s part of the challenge and it does bring you on as a rider if you want to learn off the faster riders when they pass you.

[moanthebairns]

Lindun said:

George29 said:

Well done. Just finishing it is a good result but even better to make up places.

Looked hectic out there with the difference in pace, they should bring in some kind of 110% qualifying time rule per class, it’s almost dangerous having teams with 30 seconds per lap difference out together.

That and getting rid of the control tyre would be great!

Thanks.

The tyre is a tough one as it’s a control tyre for the whole championship. Without it then the costs would increase, as it subsidises the costs a little and there is quite a spread of choice across the Pirelli / Metzeler range.

110% across classes would probably still be being achieved when you consider the twins class which was the one with the CB500s. Personally I don’t think they should be out there, as it was pretty mental at times.

Then there’s the challenges intra-team. We had quite a big spread, as did a few others. It’d be harsh to lose your £1000 entry fee by missing out on that. I think with endurance that’s part of the challenge and it does bring you on as a rider if you want to learn off the faster riders when they pass you.

Surely using the international track instead of coastal would have been a better idea with that many riders.

[George29]

I don’t see how it would make any difference to the entry fees really, they’re about the same as any other club in the sprints which are also mainly Pirelli only. It doesn’t really benefit any of the racers, just no limits.

The twins class was part of the 600s wasn’t it? Or it was on live timing anyway. So they wouldn’t have qualified. I agree about the big mix in talent but that’s what the different classes are about and 110% is what’s put in on normal sprint races as a cut off (just not usually enforced but is less of an issue in a sprint race)

[graeme4130]

moanthebairns said:

Surely using the international track instead of coastal would have been a better idea with that many riders.

It was on the full international track
It wasn’t actually that busy as with only 42 teams, it was less riders on track than a typical trackday. The CB500’s we’re a bit of a pain as the approach speed is really high, but they were easy enough to spot as they had elbows out and upright, so you could see them a long way off
I used the new Pirelli SCX slicks (supposed to grip like sc1’s but last way longer), which were great for about 8-10 laps, but then started moving about a lot
1x45 min stint and the rear had had it down to the wear indicators

[Lindun]

George29 said:

I don’t see how it would make any difference to the entry fees really, they’re about the same as any other club in the sprints which are also mainly Pirelli only. It doesn’t really benefit any of the racers, just no limits.

The twins class was part of the 600s wasn’t it? Or it was on live timing anyway. So they wouldn’t have qualified. I agree about the big mix in talent but that’s what the different classes are about and 110% is what’s put in on normal sprint races as a cut off (just not usually enforced but is less of an issue in a sprint race)

Pirelli Chuck a fair bit of money into the pot apparently, so I’m assuming that goes some way to keeping entry costs a bit lower than they would be otherwise. However, I’m not “in the know”, so it’s more supposition than anything concrete.

The twins did have their own class, at least they all got trophies at the end.

110% is a bit tough though. We wouldn’t have been able to ride as three of our riders were outside that to start the day off Bear in mind that some of the Club riders are doing BSB support races this year and it means the level is very high indeed. A qualifying lap of 1:32 from the team in pole in Club means a min 1:41 required from all riders in all teams. That would mean most teams wouldn’t qualify and even graeme4130’s team wouldn’t have been allowed in and they finished 3rd!

Edited by Lindun on Tuesday 30th July 11:30

[George29]

graeme4130 said:

It was on the full international track
It wasn’t actually that busy as with only 42 teams, it was less riders on track than a typical trackday. The CB500’s we’re a bit of a pain as the approach speed is really high, but they were easy enough to spot as they had elbows out and upright, so you could see them a long way off
I used the new Pirelli SCX slicks (supposed to grip like sc1’s but last way longer), which were great for about 8-10 laps, but then started moving about a lot
1x45 min stint and the rear had had it down to the wear indicators

Exactly the reason I don’t want to do it with the control tyre! 1 rear tyre per session makes it seriously expensive. And if you want to be competitive I guess that’s what needs to be done

[George29]

Lindun said:

Pirelli Chuck a fair bit of money into the pot apparently, so I’m assuming that goes some way to keeping entry costs a bit lower than they would be otherwise. However, I’m not “in the know”, so it’s more supposition than anything concrete.

The twins did have their own class, at least they all got trophies at the end.

110% is a bit tough though. We wouldn’t have been able to ride as three of our riders were outside that to start the day off Bear in mind that some of the Club riders are doing BSB support races this year and it means the level is very high indeed. A qualifying lap of 1:32 from the team in pole in Club means a min 1:41 required from all riders in all teams. That would mean most teams wouldn’t qualify and even graeme4130’s team wouldn’t have been allowed in and they finished 3rd!

Edited by Lindun on Tuesday 30th July 11:30

Looking at qualifying pretty much all bar 5-6 teams would have qualified? It would have made it safer though as 1:40+ is more of a lap time suited to inters on a track day and you wouldn’t want to mix those groups?

[Lindun]

George29 said:

Looking at qualifying pretty much all bar 5-6 teams would have qualified? It would have made it safer though as 1:40+ is more of a lap time suited to inters on a track day and you wouldn’t want to mix those groups?

One rider in each team would have qualified but all teams had a mix of ability. Our team was running a low of 1:34 and a high of 1:52. If the 110% is applied then it would have to be to all riders in the team surely, otherwise it would serve no purpose.

Even my best times would’ve been considered slow for Adam and his team. I know what you’re saying about the higher times, but those people are easier to pass so less of a problem.

Times aren’t as important as the ability to hold a line and stick to it. That was the biggest issue for me with some riders having little to no concept of a racing line.

[Lindun]

Oh and tyres were a great example of the differentiator with some running a new set each session, others running lower spec and one set for the whole race. £1200 on tyres for one race is a bit steep for most people. Whereas a set of budget CompK slicks sufficed for quite a few.

[George29]

Lindun said:

One rider in each team would have qualified but all teams had a mix of ability. Our team was running a low of 1:34 and a high of 1:52. If the 110% is applied then it would have to be to all riders in the team surely, otherwise it would serve no purpose.

Even my best times would’ve been considered slow for Adam and his team. I know what you’re saying about the higher times, but those people are easier to pass so less of a problem.

Times aren’t as important as the ability to hold a line and stick to it. That was the biggest issue for me with some riders having little to no concept of a racing line.

I thought the qualifying in the dry was an average of each team members fastest time? So then you’d get your 110% from that?

[Lindun]

George29 said:

I thought the qualifying in the dry was an average of each team members fastest time? So then you’d get your 110% from that?

It’s just the fastest lap nowadays. I think it used to be aggregated but they seem to have stopped that. My point isn’t how the 110% is applied but it genuinely would rule out a lot of teams. You want the slower riders off the grid, then they would have to deliver 110% per rider to deliver that.

Using Graeme’s team their best times were 2 x 34s a 40 and a 49. That would give them an average of around 1:39 so inside the qualifying criteria. However they would still have one rider that you’d described as an Inters and a guy doing novice pace out there for half the race. The issue over slower riders would still be there. I’m using their team as they got a podium so at the sharp end of the class.

My team wouldn’t have been allowed to race despite me doing 1:34s during it. Other teams were similar to us.

Endurance racing is different to sprints in more ways than one and it would kill the series if they implemented really strict rules around qualifying. Look at Suzuka the ringer teams brought in to do a one-off race there destroyed the normal teams and half of them wouldn’t qualify for a race in a series that they race in for the whole season.

[George29]

Yeah fair point, 110% for each rider is the safest way to do it, maybe with a bit of common sense applied such as variable conditions, crash etc.

I can see why it seems a bit harsh but at the same time it’s a national championship surely those rules should be applied? The only thing that messes it up for club racers is when the BSB boys do wildcards there and make 110% hard to achieve! But then I guess that’s why theres the club and national classes

[Lindun]

I don’t think there’s an easy solution. For me it’s more about the erratic riders than the slow ones. I had a huge moment with one of the riders going massively off line to gesticulate to his team just as I was passing him on the inside.

They were the scary ones.

[graeme4130]

I wouldn't say it got overly busy on the circuit anyway, so the slower riders were no real issue. Like said above, it was the erratic riding that was the main issue - I had a couple of people come out of pit lane and straight onto the inside of the hairpin right hander in front of me
It's more of an issue with sprints as you're gunning it for a place, whereas in endurance, it's a bit more leisurely, so you can afford to sit up for a corner and take on the next straight
Like Lindum says, our team would've fallen outside the rules within ourself, as we had myself and James doing circa 32-34 during the race and Nathan doing 37's, but Dave was lucky to get under 40 on any of his stints
James did a 1:31 in the first stint at the start of the race and then realised he needed to chill the fk out if he was going to do 40mins
The the thing bugs me, but I totally get why they do it
I mainly did a rear per stint, but stretched one to a 40min and then another 30minute and it was all over the place and way past the wear indicators. I think it's only a matter of time before some that's racing on a tighter budget, pushes a tyre beyond it's life and it falls apart going at high speed. After that, I think they'd have to reconsider how they do it
The standalone events they've done previously (Doni 8hr and 1000km) have both had open tyre rules, but have been outside the championship, so not sure what changed this time

Edited by graeme4130 on Tuesday 30th July 16:00

[Lindun]

Totally agree on the tyres. I think the change was that they wanted a guaranteed sell out and by making it a championship round it pretty much guaranteed it. That then forced their hand on tyres.

I had two pairs of RacetecRR K1s put aside for this race. I used both sets and the rear from stints 1 & 2 is paper thin on the right. I’m guessing the second rear is simIlar. It was all over the place at the end of my last stint round Rocket Out and Peel, but it was pretty cold up there by then anyway. I certainly won’t be riding on it again though.

All in all I thought it was a brilliantly run round and really well ridden in general with minimal flags / Safety Cars and the riders deserve a lot of credit for that too as it was done at a fair old pace.

[moanthebairns]

I'm insanely jealous looking at the photos and reading the race reports. I loved doing it last year, wish I did this year. Well done.

[graeme4130]

Lindun said:

Totally agree on the tyres. I think the change was that they wanted a guaranteed sell out and by making it a championship round it pretty much guaranteed it. That then forced their hand on tyres.

I had two pairs of RacetecRR K1s put aside for this race. I used both sets and the rear from stints 1 & 2 is paper thin on the right. I’m guessing the second rear is simIlar. It was all over the place at the end of my last stint round Rocket Out and Peel, but it was pretty cold up there by then anyway. I certainly won’t be riding on it again though.

All in all I thought it was a brilliantly run round and really well ridden in general with minimal flags / Safety Cars and the riders deserve a lot of credit for that too as it was done at a fair old pace.

Yeah, it was a great event and Mark and the team at NLR should be very proud
The riding was on the whole really good, and I didn’t see half as many crashes as I expected
There’s were quite a few bikes on the side of the track towards the end (including one from my team), but the marshals got everyone back quickly to sort transponders out
I’m not sure how they’re going to beat it next year, maybe a 12hr somewhere

[Lindun]

graeme4130 said:

Yeah, it was a great event and Mark and the team at NLR should be very proud
The riding was on the whole really good, and I didn’t see half as many crashes as I expected
There’s were quite a few bikes on the side of the track towards the end (including one from my team), but the marshals got everyone back quickly to sort transponders out
I’m not sure how they’re going to beat it next year, maybe a 12hr somewhere

24 hour is on the cards! Now that will be a monster race. Apparently they’re working on packs to attach to bikes for lighting and some trackside stuff too!