Ban on cars only?
Discussion
As you say, it is a smokescreen to distract from the lack of legislation to remedy the immediate hazard caused by localised pollution. We in the UK are pathetically bad at remedying this, and it is a real issue.
For that reason no one could possibly know how it would work, as no one has any real current intention of implementing it.
We can always have fun speculating though.
For that reason no one could possibly know how it would work, as no one has any real current intention of implementing it.
We can always have fun speculating though.
I thought it was banning "conventional" fossil fuel cars, So anything with a hybrid or something will be allowed I would imagine - that's assuming that what are considered conventional cars in 2040 are the same as today. They've got over 20 years to sort it out though, which is a long time.
electric bikes are already available...http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/eu/motorcycles and the dev is going into them; look at the mugen at the IOM TT this year - cool bit of kit: not sure i could be swayed yet though . Petrol stations will close if the demand isn't there and there aren't enough bikers to keep them open so we might not get a choice.. long way off yet - i don't like it but we should probably bring the ban in earlier...
Prof Prolapse said:
As you say, it is a smokescreen to distract from the lack of legislation to remedy the immediate hazard caused by localised pollution. We in the UK are pathetically bad at remedying this, and it is a real issue...
Is it?Talk Radio said:
Sadiq Khan's figure on pollution deaths is a "zombie statistic and it's simply not true," according to a respiratory physician.
Figures have been released claiming pollution causes almost 40,000 premature deaths a year in the UK. Air pollution is also said to cause a total 340,000 years of lost life in the UK.
Figures originated from a Royal College of Physicians report, and Mr Khan has cited the figures in announcing measures to cut pollution in London.
But Tony Frew, respiratory physician at the University of Brighton, told Julia Hartley-Brewer this is merely an example of a "zombie statistic", meaning "however much you try to kill it it comes back and it's simply not true."
He explained that the 340,000 life years figure doesn't equate to real life, and in reality each person loses only about three days from their lifespan as a result of pollution.
Frew also said that the 40,000 deaths a year figure is "a guess" using information about two pollutants which overlap.
He added that pollution levels are "illegal because we made it illegal, not because it's dangerous."
Read more at http://talkradio.co.uk/news/sadiq-khans-40000-poll...
Figures have been released claiming pollution causes almost 40,000 premature deaths a year in the UK. Air pollution is also said to cause a total 340,000 years of lost life in the UK.
Figures originated from a Royal College of Physicians report, and Mr Khan has cited the figures in announcing measures to cut pollution in London.
But Tony Frew, respiratory physician at the University of Brighton, told Julia Hartley-Brewer this is merely an example of a "zombie statistic", meaning "however much you try to kill it it comes back and it's simply not true."
He explained that the 340,000 life years figure doesn't equate to real life, and in reality each person loses only about three days from their lifespan as a result of pollution.
Frew also said that the 40,000 deaths a year figure is "a guess" using information about two pollutants which overlap.
He added that pollution levels are "illegal because we made it illegal, not because it's dangerous."
Read more at http://talkradio.co.uk/news/sadiq-khans-40000-poll...
Edited by gareth_r on Thursday 27th July 14:54
I don't need to read more. I'm fairly well read in the basics and just because one bloke disputes where a number has come from doesn't undermine the argument that this stuff is toxic and we should do something about it.
Years ago I remember some
lecturer at university saying, "You keep saying X00,000 smokers a year die a year, but you've not taken it account other respiratory diseases, so it could be as low as X0,000", as if it disproved the entire argument that smoking will probably fking kill you. You know what he was fking right, the estimates were, surprise surprise, estimates, but what did that mean with regards to the toxicity of smoking? fk all.
Exhaust emissions are very toxic. Particularly DEP and NOx. I can cite papers if you like, but for the former, Donaldson et al would be my first google. Then things like PM10 and other air quality measures, you can see why it's used, and why London is so fking st. There's a wealth of evidence out there, and it's been there since about the 90's. The science is pretty settled by this point but as usual no one gives a st. They'd rather rely on opinion.
In fact if people realised quite how toxic they were, rather than keep fking complaining that we can't precisely measure how many are effected, they would fully understand why the need to reduce the effect is much more important.
But as I say, if the government actually fking wanted to do something they would instead encourage greater numbers of "congestion charges" and the like as it is actually a much more effective means of reducing localised pollution, instead of angrying up retards everywhere. That said, in fairness a number of major cities in the UK will be introducing them soon.
Years ago I remember some
lecturer at university saying, "You keep saying X00,000 smokers a year die a year, but you've not taken it account other respiratory diseases, so it could be as low as X0,000", as if it disproved the entire argument that smoking will probably fking kill you. You know what he was fking right, the estimates were, surprise surprise, estimates, but what did that mean with regards to the toxicity of smoking? fk all.Exhaust emissions are very toxic. Particularly DEP and NOx. I can cite papers if you like, but for the former, Donaldson et al would be my first google. Then things like PM10 and other air quality measures, you can see why it's used, and why London is so f
king st. There's a wealth of evidence out there, and it's been there since about the 90's. The science is pretty settled by this point but as usual no one gives a st. They'd rather rely on opinion.In fact if people realised quite how toxic they were, rather than keep f
king complaining that we can't precisely measure how many are effected, they would fully understand why the need to reduce the effect is much more important. But as I say, if the government actually f
king wanted to do something they would instead encourage greater numbers of "congestion charges" and the like as it is actually a much more effective means of reducing localised pollution, instead of angrying up retards everywhere. That said, in fairness a number of major cities in the UK will be introducing them soon.I came home yesterday to find out my neighbour has bought an electric car, or had one anyway.
I've never met him really, I get no bother from him, he's never there, but I was tempted like fk to unplug it just to be a . If I was pished this would have happened without a seconds thought.
Now I live in a flat (two up and two down), he ran an extension cable down his stairs, through his letter box, across our entrance and to parking bay 20m easy. wtf is he going to do if someone steals his space and he has to park across the road.
I've never met him really, I get no bother from him, he's never there, but I was tempted like f
k to unplug it just to be a . If I was pished this would have happened without a seconds thought. Now I live in a flat (two up and two down), he ran an extension cable down his stairs, through his letter box, across our entrance and to parking bay 20m easy. wtf is he going to do if someone steals his space and he has to park across the road.
Don't people remember that battery technology has moved on in leaps & bounds over the years? Not so long ago, all our power tools ran on Nickel Cadmium batteries, that had to be completely depleted before recharging, & had the dreaded 'memory effect'. They could only be recharged x amount of times until they were useless, & were big, bulky, weak affairs. Today's technology is Lithium Ion, with charge times rapidly coming down, affordability getting better & size decreasing.
I'm no expert, but I wager that battery technology in 22 years will allow us to keep a battery of say, the size of a briefcase, light enough to be carried into the house to recharge, or swap-out at a recharge facility for a full one, & it'll be powerful enough to power a car.
Pie in the sky?? Just look at the pace in development of mobile phones over the past 20-odd years....
I'm no expert, but I wager that battery technology in 22 years will allow us to keep a battery of say, the size of a briefcase, light enough to be carried into the house to recharge, or swap-out at a recharge facility for a full one, & it'll be powerful enough to power a car.
Pie in the sky?? Just look at the pace in development of mobile phones over the past 20-odd years....
gareth_r said:
Leaving aside the fact that there is zero chance of the necessary infrastructure changes being made in time, I expect they are assuming that the motorcycle driving test regime will have had the desired effect by 2040. 
Indeed, plus old farts like me will likely have faded away by then so it probably won't matter to me (us?) anyway...moanthebairns said:
I came home yesterday to find out my neighbour has bought an electric car, or had one anyway.
I've never met him really, I get no bother from him, he's never there, but I was tempted like fk to unplug it just to be a . If I was pished this would have happened without a seconds thought.
Now I live in a flat (two up and two down), he ran an extension cable down his stairs, through his letter box, across our entrance and to parking bay 20m easy. wtf is he going to do if someone steals his space and he has to park across the road.
I thought about the full electric car practicality wise and laughed to myself ages ago. If I needed to drive and had no choice living outside of London a hybrid would be as far as I'd consider full stop.I've never met him really, I get no bother from him, he's never there, but I was tempted like f
k to unplug it just to be a . If I was pished this would have happened without a seconds thought. Now I live in a flat (two up and two down), he ran an extension cable down his stairs, through his letter box, across our entrance and to parking bay 20m easy. wtf is he going to do if someone steals his space and he has to park across the road.
Where I live in London it would be an extension lead out my 3rd floor flat again assuming I could get the space closest to my flat in the carpark! There is zero infrastructure to support electric vehicles in pretty much all private flatblock developments round where I live and I suspect pretty much elsewhere too - it would need to be added after approval of the idea at the direct cost to the owners.
I guess I could hotwire something off the lampost next to my parking space LOL
I do note the nice new council flats/houses (tower hamlets london borough) round the corner have bloody electric charging points installed in the carpark lol The ultimate irony there somewhere - the people that could afford reasonably the current prices of electric vehicles don't necessarily live somewhere the charging infrastructure is or can easily be installed. BTW there is not a single electric vehicle parked there, in most cases there are empty spaces because generally if you qualify in london for a council house you can't afford to run a decent 2nd hand car let alone new or new electric one, esp also where there is little point given public transport!
Central London's pollution issues from vehicles are predominately from diesel engines and they have stats to prove it. The fact you'll need a euro 6 diesel min to drive it into central london by 2019 says it all!
sjtscott said:
I do note the nice new council flats/houses (tower hamlets london borough) round the corner have bloody electric charging points installed in the carpark lol
Just a thought: why not stick a 'Hybrid' decal on your car, park it in the empty space, & plug a fake cable in for good measure. Free parking anywhere there is a charging point....sjtscott said:
...Central London's pollution issues from vehicles are predominately from diesel engines and they have stats to prove it....
The same people wanting to ban all HC engines are the same s that made everyone drive diesels these days... They really shat down their leg there didn´t they??? Except they didn´t really - they´re just stting on us...Biker 1 said:
sjtscott said:
I do note the nice new council flats/houses (tower hamlets london borough) round the corner have bloody electric charging points installed in the carpark lol
Just a thought: why not stick a 'Hybrid' decal on your car, park it in the empty space, & plug a fake cable in for good measure. Free parking anywhere there is a charging point....The whole thing is a con.
Somebody is always making money off the back of it.
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