My bike handling skills are rubbish

[Dick Seaman]

Prof Prolapse said:

With only 7 months experience and 5,000 miles, I would expect the vast majority to be pretty st to be honest.

Whilst tuition helps, it just takes practice mate. Same as learning anything else.

Fair point

[Birky_41]

As already said...

Track day, as you'll be amazed how fast a bike will go round a corner and lean

Ride ride ride but with people that are confident as you watch and learn. One of the guys who often rides with me started off on one of them limited edition CBR600's and crashed it 3 weeks after passing his test. We met him by fluke 3 years ago and he had been riding 3 weeks then crashed from a panic moment on his own going into a corner, not leaning and falling off on the gravel. Since then hes done IOM TT with us twice. Two euro trackday trips and approx 6000 road miles a year. CBR is now a track bike and road bike is an MT10 and he rides really well. Not the fastest but very confident and a good mid inters track day rider

My brother is the same and funny enough Im going to a quiet road where there are a few roundabouts to help him move about on the bike better and get his knee down for Donni Sunday and Cadwell next Friday

One thing my brother said he learnt from his first track couple weeks back was just how hard a bike will brake (when upright) and how fast a bike can go round a corner. Dont be scared to give it a go. This was him and hes not a great rider. Hes also fat, short and unfit and I can say all this as Im his big brother >>> https://youtu.be/_eGkWFkKg5I watch a lap or two and you'll get the idea

Damn I wrote alot...sorry got carried away haha

[Dick Seaman]

Thanks for all the responses, much appreciated. Will read through when I have time this evening.

[Kawasicki]

Dick Seaman said:

Kawasicki said:

What do you mean by things go wrong? Hitting gravel? Car pulling out on you? Riding a poor line through corner?

All of those. I think anything that compromises the balance and grip of the bike, especially when cornering. Could be change in surface, running wide, sudden need to change line or slow down. That sort of thing.

I'm not an expert, but I recommend spending some time on the bike riding far under the limit, but aiming for absolute precision of line, and adjustment of line. You can only be precise when you look up and as far down the road as you can. After a while you begin to relax, and there comes a point where the precision and changing of line becomes second nature. I spent evenings just braking deep in corners, learning how to keep to my chosen line....

At this point I would do some limit training, or at least a track day...you will learn that the limits are high, and that freaking about every little loss of grip makes no sense...

Confidence is important, practise looking far ahead, calm down...enjoy learning.

[leighz]

highly recommend reading the police roadcraft book to improve your road roading abilities

[RizzoTheRat]

Kawasicki said:

I'm not an expert, but I recommend spending some time on the bike riding far under the limit, but aiming for absolute precision of line, and adjustment of line. You can only be precise when you look up and as far down the road as you can. After a while you begin to relax, and there comes a point where the precision and changing of line becomes second nature. I spent evenings just braking deep in corners, learning how to keep to my chosen line....

An interesting variation on this is to find your favorite stretch of twisty road, and practice riding it without touching the brakes. This helps force you to think ahead and make sure you're in the right gear and on the right line.

[308mate]

Generally I think your high speed corners will get better when your low speed ones are good. So if you're worried about high speed corners, your low speed corners probably aren't as good as you hope.

A good start is a big car park and some witches hats, getting really good at tight figure 8s etc. Sounds simple because largely, it is.

[cbmotorsport]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'll echo this. I bet looking far ahead and 'through' corners is something you do in a car without thinking about it. It's no different on a bike, and will make your riding so much smoother.

[Ho Lee Kau]

Dick Seaman said:

Hello. Passed my test late last year and bought a '06 CBR600RR just before Christmas.
Have ridden 5000 miles since then, all conditions, here and in Europe. Loving it, best thing I've done, should have done it years ago etc.

In that time my general riding has improved significantly, however, my bike handling skills are rubbish. I'm not a driving god but I've learnt enough about car control to realise that I'm on the nursery slopes with the bike. I'm not quite a liability to myself but almost.

I've absorbed plenty of theory, read lots of articles, Twist of the Wrist, YouTube videos, and tried to put the advice into practice. Some has undoubtedly been very helpful, though I don't feel particularly comfortable experimenting on the road.

What is the best/safest/fastest way to improve my skills? Ride more? On road training? Track days? Race schools? All of them?
I'm based in Winchester, can anyone recommend anything nearby?

Thanks

I am the same as you.

I LOVE biking and do loads of miles every year for the last almost 4 years.... Unfortunately I am not an inborn talent and I am older, which means less hot-headed / more careful.

I've read the Twist book/watched Twist video and read a lot of other things...this is of only limited use, you need to RIDE.

You need to do two things:

1. Take a leaning course ASAP! It will help you stay away from bad habits (like not looking far ahead, not relaxing upper body in braking etc) that build up very quickly and are very hard to get rid of later.
2. Go on track with good instructor (=someone who is much better than you and can watch you in corners and later can debrief you and give you good advice).


P.S. My gf has 2009 CBR600RR, I really like that bike, looks great, sounds great, goes really well. I only do not like the abrupt on-off throttle response, riding CBR back-to-back with my Daytona 675, this jerky throttle is really confidence-sapping in corners. Even my 2002 CBR600F4i is better at this.

Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Thursday 27th July 18:28

[Ho Lee Kau]

cmaguire said:

Dick Seaman said:

I'm fairly comfortable with the slow control stuff. That's probably the area that has improved the most since passing. I've ridden quite a lot through London and it's really helped.

My main concern is cornering faster and how to react when things start to go wrong.

Experience and increasing confidence are probably the main things.

But entry into biking has changed a lot since I started. We started on 50's and worked our way up. The bikes were slower but also handled worse, with bad brakes and iffy tyres.
Nowadays people often start out on bigger bikes, but do have the benefit of those bikes being far more capable than what I rode (X7's and Gs550's etc).
Back then throwing it down the road was almost inevitable if you had any enthusiasm ( the wet was my favoured time to jump off), whereas nowadays nobody wants to do that and the bikes don't stand up to it quite as well either (a club hammer sorted out a lot of problems then).

First thing would be to get your bike a clean bill of health, so you have no doubts about the machinery.
Then maybe a novice trackday or some road riding with someone quick but considerate.

Maybe the Ron Haslam day would be good for you as you get tuition on basically the same bike you have so there is direct crossover into confidence on your own bike afterwards.

This is THE best way to start. While I was on track I talked to a professional racer who told me he started on a 1000cc bike and then had to unlearn lots of bad habits, which took him years. On the other hand, his friend, he told me, started on a small bike and went full-throttle right off the bat while learning the cornering skills. Within a year he was a professional rider participating in 1000cc competitions, ok, maybe a bit of a natural talent, but still he had the right start.
But it's hard to start on something small when one is older. :-)

[kurt535]

sounds like you struggle assimilating and acting on information from the near/middle/distance. suggests speed too high for your current level of information processing.

id probably get you to drive your car and talk to yourself what you see and what your actions are in response to the hazard/corner, etc.

it reads as if you know you should set up braking/gear/speed for corner but are doing it late so you end up scaring yourself and are still actioning one of these in the corner to make it ok.

so, all things being equal, get it right in your car and then transfer to your bike but go slowly.

hopefully, over time, your tunnel vision will expand to take on more information you can act on rather than suffering overload and brain lock-down which you are currently experiencing. just be gentle with yourself and don't force the speed.

[Ho Lee Kau]

cbmotorsport said:

Track days will give you heaps of confidence. You'll be able to explore what the bike can do, which helps in the real world. For example, if you know the bike will grip and you can lean it further, you'll be much better equipped on the road if you every come into a corner too quick. A classic rookie mistake.

You'll find yourself breaking much later than you ever thought possible which will prove to you how quickly you can stop when out on the road should you ever need to.

Your bike is also a perfect track tool, good out of the box. Go and do some track days, novice group, take your time, nothing to prove and enjoy it.

Though normally track asphalt is grippier and cleaner than road asphalt.
Some professional riders died on the road, probably because they treated much more dangerous road riding like track riding.

[Ho Lee Kau]

Dick Seaman said:

Kawasicki said:

What do you mean by things go wrong? Hitting gravel? Car pulling out on you? Riding a poor line through corner?

All of those. I think anything that compromises the balance and grip of the bike, especially when cornering. Could be change in surface, running wide, sudden need to change line or slow down. That sort of thing.

Courses and track days are great, but for overall good road riding you need experience doing road riding. I lost my bike on the road twice, both times without any injuries and with minimal damage to the bike, thankfully. I had close calls many times. I learned a lot from my own experience, no book of video will help you with road riding, really.
I think the best way on the road is not to be too hot-headed and not assume anything, especially that car drivers see you (even if they look you straight in the face, I had that experience!)

[Kawasicki]

Ho Lee Kau said:

Courses and track days are great, but for overall good road riding you need experience doing road riding. I lost my bike on the road twice, both times without any injuries and with minimal damage to the bike, thankfully. I had close calls many times. I learned a lot from my own experience, no book of video will help you with road riding, really.
I think the best way on the road is not to be too hot-headed and not assume anything, especially that car drivers see you (even if they look you straight in the face, I had that experience!)

I agree with advice regarding car drivers being unpredictable, but from my experience a lot of motorbike riders suffer from having limited knowledge how to actually corner. Cornering skills are even more important on the road than they are on track...

[bogie]

Police Roadcraft is really useful to learn all about the riding system that is taught by both schools, RoSPA and IAM. Another good practical book is Total Control by Lee Parks. Its great to get your head around the theory of how a bike works. There are some simple practise drills in there too. Its road biased. You may find it easier to learn and grasp some concepts once you understand the "why" :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Total-Control-Performance...

[cmaguire]

OBJ 683P Suzuki AP50. My first bike, stopped by plod riding it to school at 15 years old. The first indiscretion in my illustrious career on the road, and a sign of my total disregard for authority.
Long may it last.

[Dick Seaman]

Harry H said:

Training wise do a search for Hopper Rider Training.

Their track training days are focused towards mere mortals and not wanna be riding gods.

It's all about smooth lines and getting your weight right with them and not a track prepared R1 in sight. One bloke last year turned up on a Honda Silverwing scooter which was interesting although I wouldn't recommend it, but he did have a smile on his face.

You will need to travel, but a great day out and you will learn a lot.

That looks ideal too. Caldwell is miles away but probably worth the trip. 7x30 min on track training sessions for £250 doesn't sound too bad.

[Dick Seaman]

feef said:

Have a go at motogymkhana

Looks great. Will consider that in the future. First I want to get some high speed corner experience and training.

[Dick Seaman]

RizzoTheRat said:

IAM and RoSPA tend to operate as clubs these days, it's not for everyone but most offer a free assessed ride before you commit to joining, so got to be worth a punt. It's not all blokes with beards and BMWs, my local IAM lot do quite a few track days and usually a trip the 'ring once a year too.

Bikesafe could be worth a look too, 1 day event run by the police.

Riding on a road and a track are obviously very different, track based stuff will improve your control of, and trust in, the machine, but road based training might ultimately be more useful to you on the road.

There's an IAM club nearby, Solent Advanced Motorcyclists. However, your point about track training helping to develop trust in the machine is probably what I need at this stage.

[Dick Seaman]

cbmotorsport said:

Track days will give you heaps of confidence.

This feels like the route I need to take initially. It worked for me driving a car. I need to experience first hand what these things are capable of.