Do you use an airbag? D-Air, Tech Air?
Discussion
It's just over a year since I asked the original question so a quick update: I got the Tech Air I think it's great. No falls but I feel a little bit safer seeing the green LED on my forearm.
The vest has spent all year in my Oscar Charlie jacket but gets used in Missile leathers on the odd track day. I don't have too many criticisms but one thing that needs improved is the method of switching from race to street: at the minute it's via a windows-only updater which takes a few minutes. Moving the vest between jackets takes all of about twenty seconds.
Fingers crossed the likes of Rukka adopt the system.
The vest has spent all year in my Oscar Charlie jacket but gets used in Missile leathers on the odd track day. I don't have too many criticisms but one thing that needs improved is the method of switching from race to street: at the minute it's via a windows-only updater which takes a few minutes. Moving the vest between jackets takes all of about twenty seconds.
Fingers crossed the likes of Rukka adopt the system.
Good to hear, I've done about 5k road and track in my misano jacket and love it. So much easier having all the kit built in so I can just bung on the jacket and ride. It's been so dry this year I've barely worn my standard textile jacket but the misano is great, the system is easy to use and the charge lasts ages. No idea how it performs in a crash but happy to have it on. I think alpinestars has the edge in terms of portability but it sounds a right faff at the moment so I can't say I'd use it if I had it. That's why I went with the misano it's an agressive road jacket so happy on track too zipped in to my leathers. Either system has to be better than normal armour (90% impact reduction) so now I'm looking at fancy Bell/6D helmets to match it...
graeme4130 said:
I hear that Alpinestars have made an open patent for 2019 with their Tech-Air vest, so that now other manufactures can make Tech-Air compatible products.
I'm not sure if any are planned for the road market, but there's a few brands that will have 1 piece race suits Tech-Air ready mid 2019
I was looking at both the D-air and Tech air suits at Motorcycle live last week. Was on the MCA stand and got talking to one of the guys from 4SR. He said by April they will have an airbag suit, when I pressed him on it he didn't say it would use Tech-air but did say that it will be a suit that utilises an airbag vest rather than one that has it built in like Dainese.I'm not sure if any are planned for the road market, but there's a few brands that will have 1 piece race suits Tech-Air ready mid 2019
magpie21 said:
graeme4130 said:
I hear that Alpinestars have made an open patent for 2019 with their Tech-Air vest, so that now other manufactures can make Tech-Air compatible products.
I'm not sure if any are planned for the road market, but there's a few brands that will have 1 piece race suits Tech-Air ready mid 2019
I was looking at both the D-air and Tech air suits at Motorcycle live last week. Was on the MCA stand and got talking to one of the guys from 4SR. He said by April they will have an airbag suit, when I pressed him on it he didn't say it would use Tech-air but did say that it will be a suit that utilises an airbag vest rather than one that has it built in like Dainese.I'm not sure if any are planned for the road market, but there's a few brands that will have 1 piece race suits Tech-Air ready mid 2019
I've had mine a couple of months now, and I've not crashed in it yet, but it's good to know it's there for when I do
tjlazer said:
Good to hear, I've done about 5k road and track in my misano jacket and love it. So much easier having all the kit built in so I can just bung on the jacket and ride. It's been so dry this year I've barely worn my standard textile jacket but the misano is great, the system is easy to use and the charge lasts ages. No idea how it performs in a crash but happy to have it on. I think alpinestars has the edge in terms of portability but it sounds a right faff at the moment so I can't say I'd use it if I had it. That's why I went with the misano it's an agressive road jacket so happy on track too zipped in to my leathers. Either system has to be better than normal armour (90% impact reduction) so now I'm looking at fancy Bell/6D helmets to match it...
I really liked the Misano. Just to expand on what I tried to describe: the Tech Air wears like an integrated part of whatever jacket, held in place with anterior zips and half a dozen velcro patches around the shoulders and collar. It stays in all the time and only comes out when you want to stick it in different leathers. But you're right: the back plate does sit loose in the back of the jacket so it's not as neat as the Misano's.I spend 99% of my time in bike jeans and urban-style boots so the lazier looking Oscar jacket swayed it for me. It's all about the looks and trying to assure my unhappy family that I'm doing everything I can to avoid dying.
This has got to be the safest suit on the planet: BKS Leathers has now started offering its made-to-measure leathers with Tech-Air.
Graeme4130 was obviously right:
Graeme4130 was obviously right:
graeme4130 said:
I hear that Alpinestars have made an open patent for 2019 with their Tech-Air vest, so that now other manufactures can make Tech-Air compatible products.
I know a few guys who have the the Alpinestars system in tracks suits over here and are very happy with them.
Two of the things they like is that unless you are in fat b
d sizes you get two discharges / crashes before you need to send it off to be reset, and if you do need to send it you can just send the unit back not the entire suit.
Two of the things they like is that unless you are in fat b
d sizes you get two discharges / crashes before you need to send it off to be reset, and if you do need to send it you can just send the unit back not the entire suit. So... In Jan we were out in Almeria and my mate got cut off in the breaking zone by another rider and crashed by going over the bars just before coming into contact.
He was wearing a D-Air suit... end result he broke his collarbone and to top it off had the suit cut off him. So not too impressed, although we need to keep in mind nothing is 100%.
Dainese ran the telemetry and said the suit operated correctly. Even though it never deflated and it was cut off, meaning a ruined suit.
Many of my other friends have the Dainese suits and so far despite a number of low sides and tumbles they feel the suit has protected them. Personally I have got rid of my Dainese and purchased a Alpinestars Tech Air system. I also look at this as if you ruin you suit and two of my mates have mullered their Dainese suits meaning its actually cheaper to buy a new Dainese suit complete. If those were Alpinestars suits then they could get a tech air enabled suit for much cheaper as its separate to the air bag vest.
So I tested my suit after stupid lowside in Portimou and honestly the Alpinestars system went off and honestly I felt super protected, with the airbag covering most of my torso. Other than that top job and when I rode again the next day I knew I had another shot in my Tech Air suit left whereas the Dainese only gives one shot.
He was wearing a D-Air suit... end result he broke his collarbone and to top it off had the suit cut off him. So not too impressed, although we need to keep in mind nothing is 100%.
Dainese ran the telemetry and said the suit operated correctly. Even though it never deflated and it was cut off, meaning a ruined suit.
Many of my other friends have the Dainese suits and so far despite a number of low sides and tumbles they feel the suit has protected them. Personally I have got rid of my Dainese and purchased a Alpinestars Tech Air system. I also look at this as if you ruin you suit and two of my mates have mullered their Dainese suits meaning its actually cheaper to buy a new Dainese suit complete. If those were Alpinestars suits then they could get a tech air enabled suit for much cheaper as its separate to the air bag vest.
So I tested my suit after stupid lowside in Portimou and honestly the Alpinestars system went off and honestly I felt super protected, with the airbag covering most of my torso. Other than that top job and when I rode again the next day I knew I had another shot in my Tech Air suit left whereas the Dainese only gives one shot.
Revived to ask what’s new for 2019.
I spotted Dainese has brought out its third generation airbag in the Carve Master 2 D-Air jacket, which promises to be lighter than previous air bag jackets. However, has anyone seen or tried one?
I like the fact that the D-Air offers some neck protection, but the Tech Air’s ability to be swapped between jackets is a big plus too.
I spotted Dainese has brought out its third generation airbag in the Carve Master 2 D-Air jacket, which promises to be lighter than previous air bag jackets. However, has anyone seen or tried one?
I like the fact that the D-Air offers some neck protection, but the Tech Air’s ability to be swapped between jackets is a big plus too.
SVS said:
Revived to ask what’s new for 2019.
I spotted Dainese has brought out its third generation airbag in the Carve Master 2 D-Air jacket, which promises to be lighter than previous air bag jackets. However, has anyone seen or tried one?
I like the fact that the D-Air offers some neck protection, but the Tech Air’s ability to be swapped between jackets is a big plus too.
Nope but was considering getting this to complement my misano, as I figure leaving the protection at home because it's raining isn't exactly winning. Need to see how well it's integrated and then compare to the tech-air kit. I don't think either is a bad choice but for me I have a slight preference for dainese kit. Probably due to marketing than any hard data.I spotted Dainese has brought out its third generation airbag in the Carve Master 2 D-Air jacket, which promises to be lighter than previous air bag jackets. However, has anyone seen or tried one?
I like the fact that the D-Air offers some neck protection, but the Tech Air’s ability to be swapped between jackets is a big plus too.
Andybow said:
I like the idea of the ixon vest, can be worn with any jacket and gets very good reviews
For someone like me doing a 3 or 4 day european track day holiday ONCE a year ... I'd like to hire one of these .. ...be good if they did a contract hire .. or perhaps No Limits/Focused might like to offer it ?Edited by 3nduro on Wednesday 22 May 14:39
3nduro said:
For someone like me doing a 3 or 4 day european track day holiday ONCE a year ... I'd like to hire one of these .. ...be good if they did a contract hire .. or perhaps No Limits/Focused might like to offer it ?
True, I think some trackday companies will probs do that in future, if you buy one you have to pay a subscription to activate the airbag by gps, you can cancel it when not in useEdited by 3nduro on Wednesday 22 May 14:39
Prof Prolapse said:
Right you're either not reading what I said, or being intentionally obtuse now, so I'll wrap up.
Don't mistake any humility I have for a lack of knowledge of scientific method. Not knowing what is the best methodology is not the same as not knowing something is a logical fallacy. It is simply an admission of the complexity of the problem, and the constraints of my knowledge. I actually gave you two examples of similar methodologies which would be infinitely preferable to MotoGP anecdotes. So use either of them as you wish if you feel having an alternative method somehow demonstrates the limitations of reliance on anecdotal evidence alone.
Last point, but you are having the mother of all Epistemological failures. You're asserting that because I cannot disprove something, that it must be true. This is the classic "burden of proof argument". I am not making the claim that it works, so the onus is not on me to prove anything. The person making the claim, in this case "motorcycle airbags will provide additional protection on the road", must provide the evidence base before being taken seriously. This is my whole point, manufacturers (to the best of my knowledge) have failed to do this in any satisfactory way.
If that doesn't make sense google "Bertrand Russel's teapot".
On Top form I see prof. Don't mistake any humility I have for a lack of knowledge of scientific method. Not knowing what is the best methodology is not the same as not knowing something is a logical fallacy. It is simply an admission of the complexity of the problem, and the constraints of my knowledge. I actually gave you two examples of similar methodologies which would be infinitely preferable to MotoGP anecdotes. So use either of them as you wish if you feel having an alternative method somehow demonstrates the limitations of reliance on anecdotal evidence alone.
Last point, but you are having the mother of all Epistemological failures. You're asserting that because I cannot disprove something, that it must be true. This is the classic "burden of proof argument". I am not making the claim that it works, so the onus is not on me to prove anything. The person making the claim, in this case "motorcycle airbags will provide additional protection on the road", must provide the evidence base before being taken seriously. This is my whole point, manufacturers (to the best of my knowledge) have failed to do this in any satisfactory way.
If that doesn't make sense google "Bertrand Russel's teapot".
I would like to point out, purely as someone who has seen a fair few collarbone fractures that I am somewhat puzzled how an airbag would prevent it from happening.
Most clavicular fractures are as a result of someone falling onto an outstretched hand. Obviously you put your hand out to cushion your fall. The impact of that is transmitted through very big bones to a triangular shoulder girdle with a relatively thin clavicle which obviously is the weak link in the stress absorbtion process.
Unless you stop putting you hand out in a fall, I don't see how that changes with an inflatable body suit.
Obviously for a direct impact to the clavicle it would help but I don't think that's how most of them happen.
So I'm going to stand in the corner with the prof with this one.
I can see how an airbag jack mightn’t protect against a broken collarbone.
Equally, I can see how an airbag jacket could protect against torso damage. I think torso injuries are a major cause of fatalities or serious injuries on the road. (Though I’m happy to be corrected if someone knows better.) Both the D-Air and Tech Air airbags appear to offer significant protection against torso injuries.
Preventing neck injuries could be very important. The D-Air system offers some neck protection, but the Tech Air doesn’t. I’d like to see independent evidence as to how important this is. I notice Dainese is quite conservative about marketing claims in relation to neck protection - doubtless guided by the company’s lawyers - so the significance of its neck protection it hard to gauge. Independent testing would be good!
Equally, I can see how an airbag jacket could protect against torso damage. I think torso injuries are a major cause of fatalities or serious injuries on the road. (Though I’m happy to be corrected if someone knows better.) Both the D-Air and Tech Air airbags appear to offer significant protection against torso injuries.
Preventing neck injuries could be very important. The D-Air system offers some neck protection, but the Tech Air doesn’t. I’d like to see independent evidence as to how important this is. I notice Dainese is quite conservative about marketing claims in relation to neck protection - doubtless guided by the company’s lawyers - so the significance of its neck protection it hard to gauge. Independent testing would be good!
julian64 said:
On Top form I see prof.
I would like to point out, purely as someone who has seen a fair few collarbone fractures that I am somewhat puzzled how an airbag would prevent it from happening.
Most clavicular fractures are as a result of someone falling onto an outstretched hand. Obviously you put your hand out to cushion your fall. The impact of that is transmitted through very big bones to a triangular shoulder girdle with a relatively thin clavicle which obviously is the weak link in the stress absorbtion process.
Unless you stop putting you hand out in a fall, I don't see how that changes with an inflatable body suit.
Obviously for a direct impact to the clavicle it would help but I don't think that's how most of them happen.
So I'm going to stand in the corner with the prof with this one.
Clavicle fractures occur from fall onto outstretched arms/elbows, direct blows to tips of the shoulder and direct impact. Direct impact could be from the edge of the helmet when the neck flexes and the shoulder girdle rises up. I agree, I can't see how that the outstretched mechanism would be helped, but the other two mechanisms might benefit from reduced impact force spread and attenuated by the air cushion.I would like to point out, purely as someone who has seen a fair few collarbone fractures that I am somewhat puzzled how an airbag would prevent it from happening.
Most clavicular fractures are as a result of someone falling onto an outstretched hand. Obviously you put your hand out to cushion your fall. The impact of that is transmitted through very big bones to a triangular shoulder girdle with a relatively thin clavicle which obviously is the weak link in the stress absorbtion process.
Unless you stop putting you hand out in a fall, I don't see how that changes with an inflatable body suit.
Obviously for a direct impact to the clavicle it would help but I don't think that's how most of them happen.
So I'm going to stand in the corner with the prof with this one.
Update: Dainese have just announced this D-air smart that can be worn with any kit. Allegedly more features than the Ixon, dual charge and I was told around £550:
https://www.dainese.com/gb/en/smart-jacket.html
https://www.dainese.com/gb/en/smart-jacket.html
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