Any idea what this means?

[InitialDave]

Prof Prolapse said:

You can say it without speculation or slander

Fair enough then.

[Superhoop]

You've got to feel for the owners of the affected bikes though, many of which were supplied by said dealer with fake registration numbers..

MV (or the company that finance the bikes to the dealers) are apparently still looking for the bikes, as they are still owned by them..

I think adverts like this are just people who have run out of options trying to get around the issue trying to get out of a hole with some of their cash back. I know that the dealer I bought from (Bennett's for anyone that wants to deal with a great dealer) spent a lot of time trying to see if they could get bikes registered for customers, but just came up against a brick wall, as basically, MV Agusta were never paid for them by the dealer/s that pulled the scam.. I also read somewhere that this isn't the first manufacturer that this has been done to by the very same people..

[gareth_r]

This is why you should pay at least £100 by credit card.

https://www.moneysupermarket.com/store/credit-card...

Credit card protection provides you with a level of protection relating to anything you buy costing between £100 and £30,000. If a company that’s sold you something goes bust before the item is delivered, or if it’s broken and the supplier won’t sort things out, you can still get a refund from your credit card provider. This applies even if you pay a portion of the total cost of an item on your credit card. For example, if you put a £100 deposit down on your card for a £25,000 car and pay the rest via a loan, you can still claim the full amount on your card if you have a problem with your purchase.

Bad form if MV Agusta and their finance company accepted no responsibilty, though. After all, they appointed the dealers, sold the bikes to them, and advanced the credit.

Edited by gareth_r on Wednesday 20th September 15:32

[jamiebae]

gareth_r said:

Bad form if MV Agusta and their finance company accepted no responsibilty, though. After all, they appointed the dealers, sold the bikes to them, and advanced the credit.

Edited by gareth_r on Wednesday 20th September 15:15

I'm not so sure to be honest. MV supplied the bikes but not the paperwork to allow them to be registered, this should have been enough to ensure they aren't sold to customers until they were paid for. The dealer took the decision to fit them with fake plates and deliver them and that's not a 'normal' thing to do. I'd suggest what you're saying is like blaming Hertz when a car they rented out is fitted with fake plates and sold on by someone it was hired to.

I'm amazed this case didn't fall foul of some kind of criminal law actually, selling items which are not your property on fake plates must fall somewhere into the 'fraud' range?

[gareth_r]

jamiebae said:

... I'd suggest what you're saying is like blaming Hertz when a car they rented out is fitted with fake plates and sold on by someone it was hired to...

Not really, Hertz wouldn't have told me that the seller could be trusted.

I don't know about the legal position, but if I bought a bike from a dealer that had the manufacturer's approval (implied by the fact that MV provided the dealer with credit), I'd expect said manufacturer to take some responsibilty for their misjudgement.

[Superhoop]

jamiebae said:

gareth_r said:

Bad form if MV Agusta and their finance company accepted no responsibilty, though. After all, they appointed the dealers, sold the bikes to them, and advanced the credit.

Edited by gareth_r on Wednesday 20th September 15:15

I'm not so sure to be honest. MV supplied the bikes but not the paperwork to allow them to be registered, this should have been enough to ensure they aren't sold to customers until they were paid for. The dealer took the decision to fit them with fake plates and deliver them and that's not a 'normal' thing to do. I'd suggest what you're saying is like blaming Hertz when a car they rented out is fitted with fake plates and sold on by someone it was hired to.

I'm amazed this case didn't fall foul of some kind of criminal law actually, selling items which are not your property on fake plates must fall somewhere into the 'fraud' range?

This entire issue is also now affecting all MV dealer in the UK, because as a result of the underhand selling of bikes without paying for them, MV Agusta have removed the floor credit that was previously available to dealers, who now have to pay for the bike in full before MV will ship the bikes, meaning that dealers are now on the hook for any stock that they wish to hold, right up to the point that it is sold..

[3DP]

Note this wasn't the only scam a previously mentioned dealer was allegedly pulling. As part of winning a case and recovering money prior to them closing down, a gagging clause was allegedly put on my friend by the court (allegedly, allegedly). Ironically, not being able to publicise what they did allowed them to carry on with different and larger scale fraud - allegedly.

I guess from a criminal point of view it stays a civil case as it comes under "We were going to pay, we were trying to help customers, those were the reg plates they were likely to get as we had the list of available ones from DVLA. We just struggled for funds and went under so the CoCs were not released. Boo hoo. We definitely didn't pocket the money and send the business under, fking the finance company, MV's reputation and the customers"

So it stays a civil case unless evidence is uncovered for criminal fraud.

The truck theft thing absolutely does not stink of nasty smelly fish at all, whatsoever...

[Gavia]

3DP said:

Note this wasn't the only scam a previously mentioned dealer was allegedly pulling. As part of winning a case and recovering money prior to them closing down, a gagging clause was allegedly put on my friend by the court (allegedly, allegedly). Ironically, not being able to publicise what they did allowed them to carry on with different and larger scale fraud - allegedly.

I guess from a criminal point of view it stays a civil case as it comes under "We were going to pay, we were trying to help customers, those were the reg plates they were likely to get as we had the list of available ones from DVLA. We just struggled for funds and went under so the CoCs were not released. Boo hoo. We definitely didn't pocket the money and send the business under, fking the finance company, MV's reputation and the customers"

So it stays a civil case unless evidence is uncovered for criminal fraud.

The truck theft thing absolutely does not stink of nasty smelly fish at all, whatsoever...

Who won the case mentioned in the first paragraph? Was it the dealer or your friend?

[308mate]

3DP said:

The truck theft thing absolutely does not stink of nasty smelly fish at all, whatsoever...

Not at all. And if your trucks were only insured during transit (and not under any insurances covering the building they were in or business, for some reason), you cant make an insurance claim and therefore could never be found to have defrauded the insurance company. So no one would really care and you could use your sponsors as a proxy insurance cover. Wouldn't that be convenient?

[Andy XRV]

Gavia said:

3DP said:

Note this wasn't the only scam a previously mentioned dealer was allegedly pulling. As part of winning a case and recovering money prior to them closing down, a gagging clause was allegedly put on my friend by the court (allegedly, allegedly). Ironically, not being able to publicise what they did allowed them to carry on with different and larger scale fraud - allegedly.

I guess from a criminal point of view it stays a civil case as it comes under "We were going to pay, we were trying to help customers, those were the reg plates they were likely to get as we had the list of available ones from DVLA. We just struggled for funds and went under so the CoCs were not released. Boo hoo. We definitely didn't pocket the money and send the business under, fking the finance company, MV's reputation and the customers"

So it stays a civil case unless evidence is uncovered for criminal fraud.

The truck theft thing absolutely does not stink of nasty smelly fish at all, whatsoever...

Who won the case mentioned in the first paragraph? Was it the dealer or your friend?

Our friend won the case and ironically another friend of mine has ended up with the bike. Fortunately, he has the CoC and the registration documents. However, there are major problems with the bike and MV are not honouring the warrantee nor will they release any documentation associated with the limited edition number etc. Nice bike to look at but un-ridable and I would imagine it's almost worthless

[3DP]

Andy XRV said:

Gavia said:

3DP said:

Note this wasn't the only scam a previously mentioned dealer was allegedly pulling. As part of winning a case and recovering money prior to them closing down, a gagging clause was allegedly put on my friend by the court (allegedly, allegedly). Ironically, not being able to publicise what they did allowed them to carry on with different and larger scale fraud - allegedly.

I guess from a criminal point of view it stays a civil case as it comes under "We were going to pay, we were trying to help customers, those were the reg plates they were likely to get as we had the list of available ones from DVLA. We just struggled for funds and went under so the CoCs were not released. Boo hoo. We definitely didn't pocket the money and send the business under, fking the finance company, MV's reputation and the customers"

So it stays a civil case unless evidence is uncovered for criminal fraud.

The truck theft thing absolutely does not stink of nasty smelly fish at all, whatsoever...

Who won the case mentioned in the first paragraph? Was it the dealer or your friend?

Our friend won the case and ironically another friend of mine has ended up with the bike. Fortunately, he has the CoC and the registration documents. However, there are major problems with the bike and MV are not honouring the warrantee nor will they release any documentation associated with the limited edition number etc. Nice bike to look at but un-ridable and I would imagine it's almost worthless

It's great - you win the case and get the money, but can't tell anyone that you won the case or what happened!!

I thought the bike in question ended up in Jockland? Looking at the quality of fit of the carbon bodywork on the brand new one we saw in MV Portugal last year, I'm not surprised the bike has problems. I've seen £300 pre-painted Chinese fairings that fit better.

Then there is riding a near new £20k F4RR that felt like an early test mule it had so many obvious problems in fit, finish and design. That's before you even got to the comedy throttle map - getting an extra half second of 190bhp acceleration after fully closing the throttle, approaching a bend is always good fun. They are very pretty though.

What problems is your friend having and why won't they honour the warranty? Does it still owe money to MV or the Finance firm?

[Gavia]

3DP said:

Andy XRV said:

Gavia said:

3DP said:

Note this wasn't the only scam a previously mentioned dealer was allegedly pulling. As part of winning a case and recovering money prior to them closing down, a gagging clause was allegedly put on my friend by the court (allegedly, allegedly). Ironically, not being able to publicise what they did allowed them to carry on with different and larger scale fraud - allegedly.

I guess from a criminal point of view it stays a civil case as it comes under "We were going to pay, we were trying to help customers, those were the reg plates they were likely to get as we had the list of available ones from DVLA. We just struggled for funds and went under so the CoCs were not released. Boo hoo. We definitely didn't pocket the money and send the business under, fking the finance company, MV's reputation and the customers"

So it stays a civil case unless evidence is uncovered for criminal fraud.

The truck theft thing absolutely does not stink of nasty smelly fish at all, whatsoever...

Who won the case mentioned in the first paragraph? Was it the dealer or your friend?

Our friend won the case and ironically another friend of mine has ended up with the bike. Fortunately, he has the CoC and the registration documents. However, there are major problems with the bike and MV are not honouring the warrantee nor will they release any documentation associated with the limited edition number etc. Nice bike to look at but un-ridable and I would imagine it's almost worthless

It's great - you win the case and get the money, but can't tell anyone that you won the case or what happened!!

I thought the bike in question ended up in Jockland? Looking at the quality of fit of the carbon bodywork on the brand new one we saw in MV Portugal last year, I'm not surprised the bike has problems. I've seen £300 pre-painted Chinese fairings that fit better.

Then there is riding a near new £20k F4RR that felt like an early test mule it had so many obvious problems in fit, finish and design. That's before you even got to the comedy throttle map - getting an extra half second of 190bhp acceleration after fully closing the throttle, approaching a bend is always good fun. They are very pretty though.

What problems is your friend having and why won't they honour the warranty? Does it still owe money to MV or the Finance firm?

The bikes sound like an absolute nightmare and loss of sympathy all round, especially given the amount of money involved.

I’m confused about a gagging order though. If you win a case then it becomes a matter of public record. A court can only order one if that’s what is being applied for and the applicant wins it.

The only other way to have a gagging order in place is part of an out of court agreement where both sides reach an acceptable compromise before a court rules on the outcome.

[Andy XRV]

3DP said:

It's great - you win the case and get the money, but can't tell anyone that you won the case or what happened!!

I thought the bike in question ended up in Jockland? Looking at the quality of fit of the carbon bodywork on the brand new one we saw in MV Portugal last year, I'm not surprised the bike has problems. I've seen £300 pre-painted Chinese fairings that fit better.

Then there is riding a near new £20k F4RR that felt like an early test mule it had so many obvious problems in fit, finish and design. That's before you even got to the comedy throttle map - getting an extra half second of 190bhp acceleration after fully closing the throttle, approaching a bend is always good fun. They are very pretty though.

What problems is your friend having and why won't they honour the warranty? Does it still owe money to MV or the Finance firm?

Mainly the gearbox and electronics. It gets stuck in gears or wont go into gear, the quick shifter is hit-n-miss and the general build is far from what you'd expect for a bike costing north of 20k. I think there is still money owed to MV but whether it's actually on his bike or another one who knows. Very sad situation for all concerned.

[Huffy]

A quick google turned this up from February this year

http://www.britishdealernews.co.uk/general-news/mv...