New bike sales not looking very good.
Discussion
I posed this just over a year ago and it's interesting revisiting the conversation in the context of T-Zones in London, Moped gangs and declining bike sales...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I for one am itching to buy a new bike this winter after a two year lay-off. Show me some deals, dealers!
papa3 said:
I spoke to a contact at Suzuki a few weeks back and they have a big issue with an increasing client age. Apparently the average Suzuki rider is 55 years old and this is not unique to them.
Young uns just don't appear to have the same interest in bikes anymore, disposable income is down and the chance of getting caught is up.
I'd say its more case of affordability than interest. Social media and things aimed at younger people are awash with bikes of all sorts. Lots more wimmin are riding now too. But sports bikes have become less relevant, speed enforcement is making ownership pointless, they're too expensive to buy and insure and we are coming off a high of sports bike ownership thanks to cheap money.Young uns just don't appear to have the same interest in bikes anymore, disposable income is down and the chance of getting caught is up.
My old man was 70 this year. He's currently got a ZZR, went to try an S1000RR this weekend. Here was his report:
Very easy to ride - and very easy to ride very quickly - loved the quickshifter - great brakes and handles beautifully round corners - no low down grunt, far less torque than mine, a very irritating buzz in the handlebars at approx 4-5000rpm which would be deal-breaker for me and the mirrors are crap - inexcusable in a £15000 motorbike! Rob agreed with my comments - he said the 'resonance' (his word) are a function of the engine design - all of this model have it as does the XR, but not the R (which has a different cam) and my bike has a smoother engine than anything BMW makes!
Before his ZZR he had a Hayabusa before that 2 different Sprints. I don't think he'll be getting on a all out sports bike anytime soon, there are too many good offerings that aren't so compromised.
Now from my point of view, I am 32 and I am finally getting around to sorting my licence out this year, mainly because I feel I can now afford it. Storage is going to be an issue for me as I only have on street parking so that does worry me.
For me though a sports bike is the last thing I am looking at, there are so many other usable propositions out there.
Personally I'm looking at a Tiger 800.
I guess one thing I haven't seen mentioned that may be a factor too is the state of ours roads...
Very easy to ride - and very easy to ride very quickly - loved the quickshifter - great brakes and handles beautifully round corners - no low down grunt, far less torque than mine, a very irritating buzz in the handlebars at approx 4-5000rpm which would be deal-breaker for me and the mirrors are crap - inexcusable in a £15000 motorbike! Rob agreed with my comments - he said the 'resonance' (his word) are a function of the engine design - all of this model have it as does the XR, but not the R (which has a different cam) and my bike has a smoother engine than anything BMW makes!
Before his ZZR he had a Hayabusa before that 2 different Sprints. I don't think he'll be getting on a all out sports bike anytime soon, there are too many good offerings that aren't so compromised.
Now from my point of view, I am 32 and I am finally getting around to sorting my licence out this year, mainly because I feel I can now afford it. Storage is going to be an issue for me as I only have on street parking so that does worry me.
For me though a sports bike is the last thing I am looking at, there are so many other usable propositions out there.
Personally I'm looking at a Tiger 800.
I guess one thing I haven't seen mentioned that may be a factor too is the state of ours roads...
BobSaunders said:
* People do not have money to drop on toys as much anymore
I don't really understand this. Perhaps its just a reflection of your life but:- Our weather is horrendous for 9 months of the year
- Our roads are horrendous
- Our roads are to busy with traffic and street furniture
- Police are actively checking speed
- Social media and the stigma attached to biking is not good "your die on that" attitudes exist
- People are still getting richer. Especially if you've already bought a house, and have a job you're doing fine.https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/datasets/economicwellbeingreferencetablesummaryoffigures
- Its now the end of October and on Thursday it'll be 17 degrees and dry. Its really only Dec/Jan/Feb I don't ride but mainly because of the salt. So for 9 month of the years its fine to ride, for 6 months its great.
- Not sure what 'horrendous' roads are, but they are surely a lot better than they were 20 or 30 years ago
- Heavy traffic is just another good reason to get a bike.
- I can't remember the last police traffic patrol I saw in my part of the world. Only muppets get caught by fixed cameras. I'll take my chances with the others.
- A lot of the social media I see shows hipsters being cool on bikes with pretty girls.
MTB
Edited by shoestring7 on Tuesday 24th October 14:50
One thing that is very noticeable to me is if you go to an informal bike meet, such as Matlock Bath, Rivington Barn, Hawes, Devil's Bridge, Squires café bar etc, the vast majority of bikers are grey haired 40-70 years old, you hardly see any in their teens or twenties like the mid sixties when I started out.
Not saying that's a reason for slower sales, just an observation, so in the future, biker numbers could be on the wane.
Not saying that's a reason for slower sales, just an observation, so in the future, biker numbers could be on the wane.
Its all stacked up against riding sports bikes on UK roads. 10-20 years ago was the road riding peak for me, nowadays I'm a 40 something ex road rider.
Back in 2005 at the height of the grey import boom I bought a brand new ZX10R for £7500, a brand new SRAD GSXR 600 for just £5500 in 1998, I thought those were expensive back then lol. I did a simple CBT as a youth in the early 90's, razzed about on a TZR125 on L's and passed on test a year later after a quick 3 day intensive. That quickly got me onto all sorts of proper sports bikes from a very young age compared to people these days. There was little in the way of speed detection and if you did get caught by a real Police Officer rather than an electronic device they were usually bikers themselves and played fair as long as you were not being stupid. The roads were far less busy and most importantly in far better condition so you could often enjoy your bikes on some nice twisties where there was often little or even no other traffic at all. Other road users and the Police had a much more positive attitude toward riders and certainly had a better awareness. Theft always seemed less of an issue before battery angle grinders etc and insurance was fairly cheap as a result. I was insuring brand new litre superbikes for under £200 a year just before I gave up road riding.
Now I look at new bikes with price tags of £15-20k for standard versions of litre sports bikes. The riders left who can afford them are mostly over 40 to be able to insure or even to have a license to use them, as its become much more effort for anyone younger to get a fully unrestricted licence. The over 40's like myself now have families, mortgages etc so most have given up or gone track day only. Those left have realised that making any use of the power on now crappy subsided, pot hole ridden, UK roads littered with unobservant car drivers busy texting, taking selfies, playing with sat navs etc is no longer fun. All those lovely deserted local twisties I enjoyed sweeping around at racetrack pace are now in such bad condition a car has to slow to a walking place in some patches. If you live to tell the tale you will be front page news and banged up after getting caught by some clever device for using a fraction of the bikes power. That's if your bike is not stolen while parked in the city.
Its a shame that its gone this way as we had a whole load of fun, I just feel very lucky to have enjoyed my road bikes at a much better point in time.
Back in 2005 at the height of the grey import boom I bought a brand new ZX10R for £7500, a brand new SRAD GSXR 600 for just £5500 in 1998, I thought those were expensive back then lol. I did a simple CBT as a youth in the early 90's, razzed about on a TZR125 on L's and passed on test a year later after a quick 3 day intensive. That quickly got me onto all sorts of proper sports bikes from a very young age compared to people these days. There was little in the way of speed detection and if you did get caught by a real Police Officer rather than an electronic device they were usually bikers themselves and played fair as long as you were not being stupid. The roads were far less busy and most importantly in far better condition so you could often enjoy your bikes on some nice twisties where there was often little or even no other traffic at all. Other road users and the Police had a much more positive attitude toward riders and certainly had a better awareness. Theft always seemed less of an issue before battery angle grinders etc and insurance was fairly cheap as a result. I was insuring brand new litre superbikes for under £200 a year just before I gave up road riding.
Now I look at new bikes with price tags of £15-20k for standard versions of litre sports bikes. The riders left who can afford them are mostly over 40 to be able to insure or even to have a license to use them, as its become much more effort for anyone younger to get a fully unrestricted licence. The over 40's like myself now have families, mortgages etc so most have given up or gone track day only. Those left have realised that making any use of the power on now crappy subsided, pot hole ridden, UK roads littered with unobservant car drivers busy texting, taking selfies, playing with sat navs etc is no longer fun. All those lovely deserted local twisties I enjoyed sweeping around at racetrack pace are now in such bad condition a car has to slow to a walking place in some patches. If you live to tell the tale you will be front page news and banged up after getting caught by some clever device for using a fraction of the bikes power. That's if your bike is not stolen while parked in the city.
Its a shame that its gone this way as we had a whole load of fun, I just feel very lucky to have enjoyed my road bikes at a much better point in time.
Wacky Racer said:
One thing that is very noticeable to me is if you go to an informal bike meet, such as Matlock Bath, Rivington Barn, Hawes, Devil's Bridge, Squires café bar etc, the vast majority of bikers are grey haired 40-70 years old, you hardly see any in their teens or twenties like the mid sixties when I started out.
Not saying that's a reason for slower sales, just an observation, so in the future, biker numbers could be on the wane.
Another thing I've noticed is that the 20-somethings are mainly built like a cheese string, have chinese knock-off leathers that don't fit, pristine knee sliders and walk around just regurgitating statistics at each bike they see and then summarily judge it as either the second coming of christ or an utter piece of sNot saying that's a reason for slower sales, just an observation, so in the future, biker numbers could be on the wane.
t, then bimble out of the carpark on their Yamaha R3. If a bike meet has 100 people in it, I reckon there would be about 5 that I would actually want to converse with. I wish people would just be people who have bikes and not be so desperate to be and be seen to be "bikers" per se. And don't get me started on some of the utter bellends on Instagram. And I'm not talking about criminals, I mean regular people with legit bikes who are just bellends. Even down to adopting US slang for their posts when they live in Poole, bragging about running from cops when their riding buddy for the day is quite clearly a CG125. I have a particular few on my list should the apocalypse come and people are free to eradicate the pointless, with impunity. God I'm miserable. Must be the proximty to Christmas
Edited by 308mate on Tuesday 24th October 15:38
308mate said:
Wacky Racer said:
One thing that is very noticeable to me is if you go to an informal bike meet, such as Matlock Bath, Rivington Barn, Hawes, Devil's Bridge, Squires café bar etc, the vast majority of bikers are grey haired 40-70 years old, you hardly see any in their teens or twenties like the mid sixties when I started out.
Not saying that's a reason for slower sales, just an observation, so in the future, biker numbers could be on the wane.
Another thing I've noticed is that the 20-somethings are mainly built like a cheese string, have chinese knock-off leathers that don't fit, pristine knee sliders and walk around just regurgitating statistics at each bike they see and then summarily judge it as either the second coming of christ or an utter piece of sNot saying that's a reason for slower sales, just an observation, so in the future, biker numbers could be on the wane.
t, then bimble out of the carpark on their Yamaha R3. If a bike meet has 100 people in it, I reckon there would be about 5 that I would actually want to converse with. I wish people would just be people who have bikes and not be so desperate to be and be seen to be "bikers" per se. And don't get me started on some of the utter bellends on Instagram. And I'm not talking about criminals, I mean regular people with legit bikes who are just bellends. Even down to adopting US slang for their posts when they live in Poole, bragging about running from cops when their riding buddy for the day is quiet clearly a CG125. I have a particular few on my list should the apocalypse come and people are free to eradicate the pointless, with impunity. God I'm miserable. Must the proximty to Christmas
MTB
I think one main reason the young cannot be arsed is biking is unfashionable to youth. Well and OK, it is just too costly and time consuming to get the licence, too.
There was a time when driving to London I'd see wave after wave of bikers filtering through the gaps - now on the same journey I sometimes see none at all.
Biking has lost its fear factor to the young and its accessibility to them.
Once back yonder you could stick an L plate on a 250 cc bike and you were free! Also, it was you versus real police re speeding or bad driving. So you felt invincible (as you do at 17) and a real, proper lad. Dangerous yes but that was the appeal.
Compare that with now, where you know being a rebel will land you in court via the cameras, where the licence is costly and where most of your fellow bikers will be your grandfather.
There is no more fun nor rebellious streak to biking anymore.
There was a time when driving to London I'd see wave after wave of bikers filtering through the gaps - now on the same journey I sometimes see none at all.
Biking has lost its fear factor to the young and its accessibility to them.
Once back yonder you could stick an L plate on a 250 cc bike and you were free! Also, it was you versus real police re speeding or bad driving. So you felt invincible (as you do at 17) and a real, proper lad. Dangerous yes but that was the appeal.
Compare that with now, where you know being a rebel will land you in court via the cameras, where the licence is costly and where most of your fellow bikers will be your grandfather.
There is no more fun nor rebellious streak to biking anymore.
jondude said:
I think one main reason the young cannot be arsed is biking is unfashionable to youth. Well and OK, it is just too costly and time consuming to get the licence, too.
There was a time when driving to London I'd see wave after wave of bikers filtering through the gaps - now on the same journey I sometimes see none at all.
Biking has lost its fear factor to the young and its accessibility to them.
Once back yonder you could stick an L plate on a 250 cc bike and you were free! Also, it was you versus real police re speeding or bad driving. So you felt invincible (as you do at 17) and a real, proper lad. Dangerous yes but that was the appeal.
Compare that with now, where you know being a rebel will land you in court via the cameras, where the licence is costly and where most of your fellow bikers will be your grandfather.
There is no more fun nor rebellious streak to biking anymore.
Fear has nothing to do with it. There was a time when driving to London I'd see wave after wave of bikers filtering through the gaps - now on the same journey I sometimes see none at all.
Biking has lost its fear factor to the young and its accessibility to them.
Once back yonder you could stick an L plate on a 250 cc bike and you were free! Also, it was you versus real police re speeding or bad driving. So you felt invincible (as you do at 17) and a real, proper lad. Dangerous yes but that was the appeal.
Compare that with now, where you know being a rebel will land you in court via the cameras, where the licence is costly and where most of your fellow bikers will be your grandfather.
There is no more fun nor rebellious streak to biking anymore.
At 17-23 you get a car first, you end up crippled by that the insurance being a big one, then theres getting pissed and going on holidays with mates, by the time all of that is left you can barely afford a deposit on your own place.
So to go to someone in this age bracket, fancy doing your bike test. It's really easy.
All you have to do is
CBT £120
Theory £40
15-20 hours of lessons £500
Mod 1 and 2 £100 odd to a few hundred
oh, while your at it, a decent set of gear is £1k
Then there is your first years insurance, not cheap for most.
oh and then you have to buy the bike.
MTB
I agree that the cost and the ridiculous complexity of the test is a turn off for most people (of all ages). You shouldn't need to do 4 tests to ride a sodding motorcycle, although I agree that some sort of graduated system to stop just anyone passing their test and jumping on an R1 isn't a bad idea.
I've been looking at buying a new (to me) bike and haven't simply because I can't decide what I'd like. I would like a litre bike, but the increased running costs are a bit of a turn off for me as I like to use my bike a lot. I also ride in the winter and I would hate to see my smart bike rapidly get all manky from exposure to mud and road salt. To be honest as I rarely exceed 80 or 90, but love cornering another 600 would fit the bill.
I really like the Yamaha MT 07 and 09 looks wise, but I don't think I could afford the latter just yet, without taking out a four or five year loan, something I'm loath to do on a bike.
I've been looking at buying a new (to me) bike and haven't simply because I can't decide what I'd like. I would like a litre bike, but the increased running costs are a bit of a turn off for me as I like to use my bike a lot. I also ride in the winter and I would hate to see my smart bike rapidly get all manky from exposure to mud and road salt. To be honest as I rarely exceed 80 or 90, but love cornering another 600 would fit the bill.
I really like the Yamaha MT 07 and 09 looks wise, but I don't think I could afford the latter just yet, without taking out a four or five year loan, something I'm loath to do on a bike.
For someone like myself who falls into the age bracket between 17-24.
I have my A2 licence which cost around £600 to get, i am tempted to buy a new bike however i do not want to restrict the bike as per my licence.
I have been thinking about the idea to upgrade my licence to a full licence but to fork out another £600 to go through the SAME tests again (apart from being on a 650cc bike instead of a 500cc bike) and also re-sit the tests does put me off, however when i first did my A2 licence i did not think that it would be the case.
As people have said the cost of it all is a fortune, so to get my full test £600, buy a bike (on PCP) roughly £100 per month? or buy a second hand bike 2-3k?. Insurance on that bike will be circa 1.5k, Gear 1k.
When you have to fork out for all of the above and also run and maintain a car (insurance is £1,500 on car) it becomes very expensive and not justifiable.
To be honest if i did have my full licence instead of my A2 i would most likely buy a bike
I have my A2 licence which cost around £600 to get, i am tempted to buy a new bike however i do not want to restrict the bike as per my licence.
I have been thinking about the idea to upgrade my licence to a full licence but to fork out another £600 to go through the SAME tests again (apart from being on a 650cc bike instead of a 500cc bike) and also re-sit the tests does put me off, however when i first did my A2 licence i did not think that it would be the case.
As people have said the cost of it all is a fortune, so to get my full test £600, buy a bike (on PCP) roughly £100 per month? or buy a second hand bike 2-3k?. Insurance on that bike will be circa 1.5k, Gear 1k.
When you have to fork out for all of the above and also run and maintain a car (insurance is £1,500 on car) it becomes very expensive and not justifiable.
To be honest if i did have my full licence instead of my A2 i would most likely buy a bike
Age is definitely a factor, I only got my full licence last year but when I go events such my LAM meets or other biking hints I’m inevitably referred to as a ‘youngster’. I’m 37 and although I moisturise I’m pretty sure I look beyond what is normally defined as a youth!
Costs are a thing, riding is expensive initially due to the gear. At my age that’s fine but I guess it’s another issue against riding anything beyond the 125 cbt type approach.
I’m hoping Zero bikes and their electric like will herald a new interest in 2 wheels, after all cycling is bloody popular and motorbikes are way more fun! With no maintenance and running costs (almost) these have got to take off for cities in the future.
Costs are a thing, riding is expensive initially due to the gear. At my age that’s fine but I guess it’s another issue against riding anything beyond the 125 cbt type approach.
I’m hoping Zero bikes and their electric like will herald a new interest in 2 wheels, after all cycling is bloody popular and motorbikes are way more fun! With no maintenance and running costs (almost) these have got to take off for cities in the future.
shoestring7 said:
BobSaunders said:
* People do not have money to drop on toys as much anymore
I don't really understand this. Perhaps its just a reflection of your life but:- Our weather is horrendous for 9 months of the year
- Our roads are horrendous
- Our roads are to busy with traffic and street furniture
- Police are actively checking speed
- Social media and the stigma attached to biking is not good "your die on that" attitudes exist
- People are still getting richer. Especially if you've already bought a house, and have a job you're doing fine.https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/datasets/economicwellbeingreferencetablesummaryoffigures
- Its now the end of October and on Thursday it'll be 17 degrees and dry. Its really only Dec/Jan/Feb I don't ride but mainly because of the salt. So for 9 month of the years its fine to ride, for 6 months its great.
- Not sure what 'horrendous' roads are, but they are surely a lot better than they were 20 or 30 years ago
- Heavy traffic is just another good reason to get a bike.
- I can't remember the last police traffic patrol I saw in my part of the world. Only muppets get caught by fixed cameras. I'll take my chances with the others.
- A lot of the social media I see shows hipsters being cool on bikes with pretty girls.
MTB
Edited by shoestring7 on Tuesday 24th October 14:50
My life is fine thanks.
tjlazer said:
Age is definitely a factor, I only got my full licence last year but when I go events such my LAM meets or other biking hints I’m inevitably referred to as a ‘youngster’. I’m 37 and although I moisturise I’m pretty sure I look beyond what is normally defined as a youth!
Costs are a thing, riding is expensive initially due to the gear. At my age that’s fine but I guess it’s another issue against riding anything beyond the 125 cbt type approach.
I’m hoping Zero bikes and their electric like will herald a new interest in 2 wheels, after all cycling is bloody popular and motorbikes are way more fun! With no maintenance and running costs (almost) these have got to take off for cities in the future.
Moisturiser? Costs are a thing, riding is expensive initially due to the gear. At my age that’s fine but I guess it’s another issue against riding anything beyond the 125 cbt type approach.
I’m hoping Zero bikes and their electric like will herald a new interest in 2 wheels, after all cycling is bloody popular and motorbikes are way more fun! With no maintenance and running costs (almost) these have got to take off for cities in the future.
f
ks sake. I wonder if half the problem is that biking just isn't cool anymore. When you see - and I guess that's the point - someone wearing hi-vis vest, fluro helmet and spot lights on in the daytime I can't help but think how uncool we (they) must look to the average teen. Motorcyclists seem so risk adverse and over zealous in wanting to be seen and be safe that possibly it's stripped away all the raw appeal of it. But then you can't blame people for wanting to be seen either.
Also, maybe to an outsider biking also seems a bit elitist; whether it be sports bike or adventure bikes, it's the same message; big and fast is best and the entry price to all that is usually high. If you're just starting out or just wanting a bike for the freedom of it then you're often looked down upon by your biking peers for being happy to razz around on an old stter. We're often our worst enemy in attracting and encouraging new blood.
Also, maybe to an outsider biking also seems a bit elitist; whether it be sports bike or adventure bikes, it's the same message; big and fast is best and the entry price to all that is usually high. If you're just starting out or just wanting a bike for the freedom of it then you're often looked down upon by your biking peers for being happy to razz around on an old s
tter. We're often our worst enemy in attracting and encouraging new blood.Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff