New bike sales not looking very good.
Discussion
I wouldn't bother either if I still lived in the UK.
The highest point in Thailand being an hour from your doorstep and cruising the coastal roads of Portugal kind of takes the shine off riding up and down the M6.
That being said, the barriers to entry are just too high, leaving only petrolheads and people interested in bikes riding.
The highest point in Thailand being an hour from your doorstep and cruising the coastal roads of Portugal kind of takes the shine off riding up and down the M6.
That being said, the barriers to entry are just too high, leaving only petrolheads and people interested in bikes riding.
mikebradford said:
I'm always dissapointed that the UK doesn't seem to have taken onboard the European love for small bikes and mopeds.
Going into the larger European cities and seeing young couples on mopeds etc just seems sensible.
Not sure why the younger generation here hasn't embraced this, as it would likely lead to some trying larger engined bikes.
Probably because;Going into the larger European cities and seeing young couples on mopeds etc just seems sensible.
Not sure why the younger generation here hasn't embraced this, as it would likely lead to some trying larger engined bikes.
A. The weather is generally a bit s
t here.B. They've progressively made it more difficult/expensive to get a bike licence.
C. But mainly because we can't ride even a moped until 16 but can then drive a car at 17, so there's only a year where you can get mobile (and it's likely to be raining for a a third of it) so many don't bother, where as in some European countries, Italy for example you can ride a moped at 14 and then a (small) motorbike at 16 but need to be 18 to drive a car so there are 4 years where you can be self-mobile before having a car, so much more worthwhile plus the weather's much better so you find many more takers.
In real terms, the inflation adjust price of bikes has not changed since the 80s....in fact some classes of bike are cheaper, you get way more for money these days with regard to reliability, technology and of course, power.
In 1990 a typical sports 750 with 100 bhp was about £5500 which is £12500 now
higher end BMW 1000 was £8000 so thats £18000 today
exotic RC30 - £8500 - nearly £20k today, similar to a Fireblade SP
silly stuff like Bimota Tuatara was £20k, more like a £45K Desmo today
I think low bike sales is just down to;
perceived difficulty and cost of test, when compared to a car.
affordable reliable cars that are not rust buckets.....a lot of car can be had for a few grand, no incentive to get on 2 wheels from a freedom/transport perspective.
Generally the priority for a youngster looking for transport is going to be a car most of the time.
Hence bikes have become a pure hobby for the older majority, which (usually) means the budget for bikes comes after all the sensible stuff in life like houses, cars, kids etc that creep into your life over the years.
Unless you get into riding early on in life, perhaps thanks to a family member or parent, you need to have to have some burning desire that sends you down the 2 wheeled path......
I started as a teenager off road in the early 80s and never bothered to pass my car test until 28 when I needed one for work. Now 30 years later none of my nephews and nieces think about 2 wheels, they turn 17 yrs old and pass their car tests, get a car and then all their spare cash is tied up with that....and other habits of the modern world.
Generally the standard of living of the population has increased over 30 years, but housing costs have also gone up disproportionately, and a £1-2k a year technology habit has crept in......for the younger generation an increasing proportion of income is spent just existing in the modern world versus having spare cash for bikes or cars.......
In 1990 a typical sports 750 with 100 bhp was about £5500 which is £12500 now
higher end BMW 1000 was £8000 so thats £18000 today
exotic RC30 - £8500 - nearly £20k today, similar to a Fireblade SP
silly stuff like Bimota Tuatara was £20k, more like a £45K Desmo today
I think low bike sales is just down to;
perceived difficulty and cost of test, when compared to a car.
affordable reliable cars that are not rust buckets.....a lot of car can be had for a few grand, no incentive to get on 2 wheels from a freedom/transport perspective.
Generally the priority for a youngster looking for transport is going to be a car most of the time.
Hence bikes have become a pure hobby for the older majority, which (usually) means the budget for bikes comes after all the sensible stuff in life like houses, cars, kids etc that creep into your life over the years.
Unless you get into riding early on in life, perhaps thanks to a family member or parent, you need to have to have some burning desire that sends you down the 2 wheeled path......
I started as a teenager off road in the early 80s and never bothered to pass my car test until 28 when I needed one for work. Now 30 years later none of my nephews and nieces think about 2 wheels, they turn 17 yrs old and pass their car tests, get a car and then all their spare cash is tied up with that....and other habits of the modern world.
Generally the standard of living of the population has increased over 30 years, but housing costs have also gone up disproportionately, and a £1-2k a year technology habit has crept in......for the younger generation an increasing proportion of income is spent just existing in the modern world versus having spare cash for bikes or cars.......
plus the yoofs of today would rather spend money on a phone than buy a car or bike..
cost is definitely prohibitive - the £ is pretty week so importing bikes or bits to assemble bikes is fairly expensive right now, add insurance and why would they bother when then can have a car as an accessory for their phone.
I don't see manufacturers going out of their way to promote their bikes into youth markets (although I'm not in the demographic so may have missed it
).. Perhaps bike manufacturers should do a bit more affiliative marketing to drive demand - there are some pretty marketable personalities like Beckham and Tom Hardy that ride bikes. Audi have been putting products in films for ages: irobot was basically Will Smith in a 1hr 55 min Audi advert ..
cost is definitely prohibitive - the £ is pretty week so importing bikes or bits to assemble bikes is fairly expensive right now, add insurance and why would they bother when then can have a car as an accessory for their phone.
I don't see manufacturers going out of their way to promote their bikes into youth markets (although I'm not in the demographic so may have missed it
).. Perhaps bike manufacturers should do a bit more affiliative marketing to drive demand - there are some pretty marketable personalities like Beckham and Tom Hardy that ride bikes. Audi have been putting products in films for ages: irobot was basically Will Smith in a 1hr 55 min Audi advert .. The thing that's put me off for so long (finally starting down the path), is the totally weird licensing structure which means a very expensive learning process.
Even adjusting for inflation I learnt to drive a car for less than half what it'll likely cost to learn how to ride a bike.
Even adjusting for inflation I learnt to drive a car for less than half what it'll likely cost to learn how to ride a bike.
Just going through my test now having riden 18 yrs ago on a cagiva mito. Despite passing CBT, theory and mod 1 1st time with mod 2 to come in 2 weeks, it has been a ball ache and a costly one at that.
Your looking at £700+ for lessons and tests if your lucky enough to pass 1st time. Gear is £500+ easily, then you have the bike itself of which 2nd hand values have risen over the past few years. I see threads from people looking for bikes in 2012 and the same bike with an extra 20k miles added is the almost the same price now 5 years on.
So you have £1200 minimum on gear and test, plus time as well. Then you have a 600 commuter bike at £1500 that's almost 20 years old plus insurance leaves you at £3k easily.
Now 2nd hand cars have gone the opposite way so you can get far more bang for your buck. You can bag A V8 for £1500 and use it all year round. Also it's not like the bigger bikes are great on fuel either with a lot only averaging around 40mpg at best.
So where is the incentive? Making new drivers do a CBT would help massively as even a 125cc feels good when you've never risen before. Plus the roads would be a far safer place to be as well. Those that ride know that it's only when you actually ride a bike for the 1st time that you understand how thrilling they can be. For someone that's never rode one it's going to be hard to convince them to stump £7-800 in a das course plus gear to ride what many believe to be a death trap...
Your looking at £700+ for lessons and tests if your lucky enough to pass 1st time. Gear is £500+ easily, then you have the bike itself of which 2nd hand values have risen over the past few years. I see threads from people looking for bikes in 2012 and the same bike with an extra 20k miles added is the almost the same price now 5 years on.
So you have £1200 minimum on gear and test, plus time as well. Then you have a 600 commuter bike at £1500 that's almost 20 years old plus insurance leaves you at £3k easily.
Now 2nd hand cars have gone the opposite way so you can get far more bang for your buck. You can bag A V8 for £1500 and use it all year round. Also it's not like the bigger bikes are great on fuel either with a lot only averaging around 40mpg at best.
So where is the incentive? Making new drivers do a CBT would help massively as even a 125cc feels good when you've never risen before. Plus the roads would be a far safer place to be as well. Those that ride know that it's only when you actually ride a bike for the 1st time that you understand how thrilling they can be. For someone that's never rode one it's going to be hard to convince them to stump £7-800 in a das course plus gear to ride what many believe to be a death trap...
The current licensing laws are a total joke. Which isn't funny.
A bunch of car drivers with too much power have got it in their heads that motorcycles are inherently dangerous and then decided to do their best to legislate them off the roads, by making it so much hassle and expense to do what others (like me) could do before without issue. Stay on four wheels and strangely the same hurdles don't exist, but then that is where these bigotted idiots live. The self-same idiots that made those motorcycles more dangerous in the first place.
A bunch of car drivers with too much power have got it in their heads that motorcycles are inherently dangerous and then decided to do their best to legislate them off the roads, by making it so much hassle and expense to do what others (like me) could do before without issue. Stay on four wheels and strangely the same hurdles don't exist, but then that is where these bigotted idiots live. The self-same idiots that made those motorcycles more dangerous in the first place.
Looked into getting a license earlier this year when I turned 24, seen the hurdles you have to jump through to get on to something mildly tasty and though fk that for a laugh. I bought a hot hatch instead which is no where near as fast as even a small capacity bike but I can drive it on a standard license, insurance is cheap and it probably won’t be lifted by some s in a van.
The process is just too long and drawn out for what would only be a toy. I imagine that this is reflected throughout my age group.
k that for a laugh. I bought a hot hatch instead which is no where near as fast as even a small capacity bike but I can drive it on a standard license, insurance is cheap and it probably won’t be lifted by some s in a van. The process is just too long and drawn out for what would only be a toy. I imagine that this is reflected throughout my age group.
WarnieV6GT said:
Just going through my test now having riden 18 yrs ago on a cagiva mito. Despite passing CBT, theory and mod 1 1st time with mod 2 to come in 2 weeks, it has been a ball ache and a costly one at that.
Your looking at £700+ for lessons and tests if your lucky enough to pass 1st time. Gear is £500+ easily, then you have the bike itself of which 2nd hand values have risen over the past few years. I see threads from people looking for bikes in 2012 and the same bike with an extra 20k miles added is the almost the same price now 5 years on.
So you have £1200 minimum on gear and test, plus time as well. .
All true. My pal just went through Direct Access and was on the verge of pulling the plug simply through cost. Split with the wife and thought he needed a change of direction in life and always fancied a bike. Failed Mod 1 twice and Mod 2 once. By the time he forked out for all this and his gear he ended up selling his car for funds for a bike. Your looking at £700+ for lessons and tests if your lucky enough to pass 1st time. Gear is £500+ easily, then you have the bike itself of which 2nd hand values have risen over the past few years. I see threads from people looking for bikes in 2012 and the same bike with an extra 20k miles added is the almost the same price now 5 years on.
So you have £1200 minimum on gear and test, plus time as well. .
mickrick said:
Because new bikes look like st.
More akin to transformers.
So I look a retro. Fake carbs, loads of electronics. No thanks.
Whilst I don't think the fugliness of modern bikes is affecting sales I certainly agree that a lot really do look crap!t.More akin to transformers.
So I look a retro. Fake carbs, loads of electronics. No thanks.
When the S1000R was released years back there was a black one at one of the bike shows with about 7 or 8 different panels/bits of bodywork each in a different shade of black, it looked badly designed.
Some of the engineering details on modern bikes are superb but then some really nasty looking bits of plastic are bolted on to ruin the look of the entire bike.
mickrick said:
Because new bikes look like st.
More akin to transformers.
So I look a retro. Fake carbs, loads of electronics. No thanks.
Transformers! Exactly what I said to my son when we had a look at a showroom the other day.t.More akin to transformers.
So I look a retro. Fake carbs, loads of electronics. No thanks.
Theft is now my biggest worry and unless I know I have somewhere safe to park, I don't use my bike. It's a real shame but I am really surprised to see my bike still around when parked on the street in London after a days work.
This afternoon I have to work on the South Bank in London. We don't finish till midnight so the bike will be the best bet but the other thing is parking.
Worked the same area the other day and could not find any parking. This was about midday so all the bays were full. Had to park a mile away then walk 20 mins.
So much for the ease and freedom of using my bike especially as it seems to take an age to cover it in chains and get all my gear on or off.
I was a dispatch rider in the 80s. You could leave your bike anywhere and not get a ticket or find it nicked. Never bothered with a chain or disc lock.
For me the fun has gone.
I'm relatively new - passed my test at 32 earlier this year.
It is pretty pricey TBH, but once it's done - it's done. I certainly don't think it should be any more attainable. The current process for learning/passing teaches good safety and in all honesty, it's good.
I'm finding it exciting still when I go out on it (Ducati 821), except washing the bike after it rains is a proper ball ache - so i dont bother riding in the rain if I can avoid it.
However, I find that there's no one I really know that just wants to go out for a ride.
I get invited to meets by power rangers on sports bikes, which frankly I'm not too bothered about as they all ride like dingbats.
I find people either want to go out for a ride at 110% everywhere, or not at all.
I guess I''m part of the new 'hipster' phase in that I want something which looks/sounds good, wear decent looking gear (I dont wear power ranger leathers), and I'm pretty happy making some noise and getting some fresh air.
I think one of the worst things (to me) in terms of how it makes me feel, is read on forums about all the riding gods, who god forbid you get in their way on a ride, you shall suffer, etc. This behaviour just makes it seem so aggresive/not fun. Or the 'you've got chicken strips, you're not worthy' crew. It's all very condescending. Given the lack of new riders, you think people would be actively encouraging anyone to get involved.
My 2p.
It is pretty pricey TBH, but once it's done - it's done. I certainly don't think it should be any more attainable. The current process for learning/passing teaches good safety and in all honesty, it's good.
I'm finding it exciting still when I go out on it (Ducati 821), except washing the bike after it rains is a proper ball ache - so i dont bother riding in the rain if I can avoid it.
However, I find that there's no one I really know that just wants to go out for a ride.
I get invited to meets by power rangers on sports bikes, which frankly I'm not too bothered about as they all ride like dingbats.
I find people either want to go out for a ride at 110% everywhere, or not at all.
I guess I''m part of the new 'hipster' phase in that I want something which looks/sounds good, wear decent looking gear (I dont wear power ranger leathers), and I'm pretty happy making some noise and getting some fresh air.
I think one of the worst things (to me) in terms of how it makes me feel, is read on forums about all the riding gods, who god forbid you get in their way on a ride, you shall suffer, etc. This behaviour just makes it seem so aggresive/not fun. Or the 'you've got chicken strips, you're not worthy' crew. It's all very condescending. Given the lack of new riders, you think people would be actively encouraging anyone to get involved.
My 2p.
garylythgoe said:
I'm relatively new - passed my test at 32 earlier this year.
It is pretty pricey TBH, but once it's done - it's done. I certainly don't think it should be any more attainable. The current process for learning/passing teaches good safety and in all honesty, it's good.
I'm finding it exciting still when I go out on it (Ducati 821), except washing the bike after it rains is a proper ball ache - so i dont bother riding in the rain if I can avoid it.
However, I find that there's no one I really know that just wants to go out for a ride.
I get invited to meets by power rangers on sports bikes, which frankly I'm not too bothered about as they all ride like dingbats.
I find people either want to go out for a ride at 110% everywhere, or not at all.
I guess I''m part of the new 'hipster' phase in that I want something which looks/sounds good, wear decent looking gear (I dont wear power ranger leathers), and I'm pretty happy making some noise and getting some fresh air.
I think one of the worst things (to me) in terms of how it makes me feel, is read on forums about all the riding gods, who god forbid you get in their way on a ride, you shall suffer, etc. This behaviour just makes it seem so aggresive/not fun. Or the 'you've got chicken strips, you're not worthy' crew. It's all very condescending. Given the lack of new riders, you think people would be actively encouraging anyone to get involved.
My 2p.
Why condem people who wear leathers and want to enjoy their sports bikes and don't have chicken strips. It is pretty pricey TBH, but once it's done - it's done. I certainly don't think it should be any more attainable. The current process for learning/passing teaches good safety and in all honesty, it's good.
I'm finding it exciting still when I go out on it (Ducati 821), except washing the bike after it rains is a proper ball ache - so i dont bother riding in the rain if I can avoid it.
However, I find that there's no one I really know that just wants to go out for a ride.
I get invited to meets by power rangers on sports bikes, which frankly I'm not too bothered about as they all ride like dingbats.
I find people either want to go out for a ride at 110% everywhere, or not at all.
I guess I''m part of the new 'hipster' phase in that I want something which looks/sounds good, wear decent looking gear (I dont wear power ranger leathers), and I'm pretty happy making some noise and getting some fresh air.
I think one of the worst things (to me) in terms of how it makes me feel, is read on forums about all the riding gods, who god forbid you get in their way on a ride, you shall suffer, etc. This behaviour just makes it seem so aggresive/not fun. Or the 'you've got chicken strips, you're not worthy' crew. It's all very condescending. Given the lack of new riders, you think people would be actively encouraging anyone to get involved.
My 2p.
If you want too wear nice gear and look good well find a busy Main Street with a coffee shop and sit outside stroking your beard looking all windswept and interstering.
I'm sure they must be other men looking to meet other men who like looking good.
Same for me. Passed my test at 32, 2 years ago. The mere fact that i wanted to get my license just baffled people, "oh my got do you have a death wish".
If the industry wants younger ones on bikes they need to address the myths out there.
Second to that is the fact that your bike WILL be stolen at somepoint and people just don't want that hassle.
If the industry wants younger ones on bikes they need to address the myths out there.
Second to that is the fact that your bike WILL be stolen at somepoint and people just don't want that hassle.
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