New bike sales not looking very good.
Discussion
cmaguire said:
I think there is another angle too.
When I started out (illegally) at 15 on my AP50 it was all about freedoms, being able to get about and have as little to do with your parents as possible. Bikes. and subsequently cars, were a laugh in addition to getting from one place to another. And what you did on the road wasn't as scrutinized or socially frowned upon as it is now (boring).
These days kids seem far happier in their cringeworthy Walton-esque families having their parents ferry them around, thereby freeing up more of their funds for whatever mobile phone they are cooing over or drink/other vanity items. All reinforced by the authorities having made driving or riding a predominantly joyless experience nowadays anyway. And also very expensive, as vanity or self-consciousness appears to prevent modern kids being happy with either a doggy car or bike like I was starting out.
I tend to agree. When I started out (illegally) at 15 on my AP50 it was all about freedoms, being able to get about and have as little to do with your parents as possible. Bikes. and subsequently cars, were a laugh in addition to getting from one place to another. And what you did on the road wasn't as scrutinized or socially frowned upon as it is now (boring).
These days kids seem far happier in their cringeworthy Walton-esque families having their parents ferry them around, thereby freeing up more of their funds for whatever mobile phone they are cooing over or drink/other vanity items. All reinforced by the authorities having made driving or riding a predominantly joyless experience nowadays anyway. And also very expensive, as vanity or self-consciousness appears to prevent modern kids being happy with either a doggy car or bike like I was starting out.
Regarding the insurance aspect, I dont think its any more expensive in real terms, but compared to the price of the superfluous crap like smartphones and tvs that younger people are addicted to, it can seem pricey.
Generations growing up without the experience of a "private" life and freedom of getting yourself about to where you want, when you want. I mean what is the point of going somewhere random on your own time and under your own steam when you get there and have to tell the world about it on t
tbook. 4 factors in my view.
1. Urban thefts/bike jackings. Worst PR ever for scooters and big bikes sales. Once yours is stolen, you have trouble getting insurance again, plus stung if you are a PCP junkie but have no gap insurance. Add in risk of a bike jacking/acid/hammers etc puts off new people and existing people replacing with a shiny new bike. Has to be a major factor in scooter sales plummet, given their urban buyer profile.
2. Debt. More personal debt than in 2007. Bikes are generally frivolous things these days. When inflation is up, wages are static and you are already way too debted up, something has to give. New bike purchase delay/cancellation is an easy win.
3. Licensing - ever harder and more expensive. Can only ride ste until early 20s.
4. New bike prices - Biking boomed when prices came down and remained static at lower levels. Then prices spiked with the commodities boom and Japanese Yen super strength. Abenomics has normalised the Yen and commodities tanked to reasonable levels. Prices did not drop - just more offers of PCP and more leverage to help you pay more. See point 2.
1. Urban thefts/bike jackings. Worst PR ever for scooters and big bikes sales. Once yours is stolen, you have trouble getting insurance again, plus stung if you are a PCP junkie but have no gap insurance. Add in risk of a bike jacking/acid/hammers etc puts off new people and existing people replacing with a shiny new bike. Has to be a major factor in scooter sales plummet, given their urban buyer profile.
2. Debt. More personal debt than in 2007. Bikes are generally frivolous things these days. When inflation is up, wages are static and you are already way too debted up, something has to give. New bike purchase delay/cancellation is an easy win.
3. Licensing - ever harder and more expensive. Can only ride s
te until early 20s.4. New bike prices - Biking boomed when prices came down and remained static at lower levels. Then prices spiked with the commodities boom and Japanese Yen super strength. Abenomics has normalised the Yen and commodities tanked to reasonable levels. Prices did not drop - just more offers of PCP and more leverage to help you pay more. See point 2.
Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been covered but...
Bike manufacturers have chased the wrong number. All these years they've gone mental for blokes down the pub to win bhp/mph willy waving contests and have completely ignored what would almost innevitably be the most important one; mpg.
Sounds dull of course because bikes are play things now but why haven't they put any effort at all into mpg? I've been banging on about it in here for years, there's no point in me buying a new bike to use for work as I'd struggle to find one that equals the 60mpg I get from my car. And that is truley pathetic. Why would I spend £x,000 buying a bike (when I also have to have a car - as most people do) when it's no more efficient than the car? I can carry four other people and still get better performance (from an mpg perspective).
My (nearly) 90 year old Velocette will break any speed limit in this country yet still gets more mpg than almost any similar performance bike on the road.
Bikes have backed themselves into a corner where they're almost entirely irrelevant and it's showing plain to see in sales figures. They're now too fast to enjoy on the roads and too expensive to have as toys and too st to have as decent mileage commuters.
Bike manufacturers have chased the wrong number. All these years they've gone mental for blokes down the pub to win bhp/mph willy waving contests and have completely ignored what would almost innevitably be the most important one; mpg.
Sounds dull of course because bikes are play things now but why haven't they put any effort at all into mpg? I've been banging on about it in here for years, there's no point in me buying a new bike to use for work as I'd struggle to find one that equals the 60mpg I get from my car. And that is truley pathetic. Why would I spend £x,000 buying a bike (when I also have to have a car - as most people do) when it's no more efficient than the car? I can carry four other people and still get better performance (from an mpg perspective).
My (nearly) 90 year old Velocette will break any speed limit in this country yet still gets more mpg than almost any similar performance bike on the road.
Bikes have backed themselves into a corner where they're almost entirely irrelevant and it's showing plain to see in sales figures. They're now too fast to enjoy on the roads and too expensive to have as toys and too s
t to have as decent mileage commuters. srob said:
Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been covered but...
Bike manufacturers have chased the wrong number. All these years they've gone mental for blokes down the pub to win bhp/mph willy waving contests and have completely ignored what would almost innevitably be the most important one; mpg.
Sounds dull of course because bikes are play things now but why haven't they put any effort at all into mpg? I've been banging on about it in here for years, there's no point in me buying a new bike to use for work as I'd struggle to find one that equals the 60mpg I get from my car. And that is truley pathetic. Why would I spend £x,000 buying a bike (when I also have to have a car - as most people do) when it's no more efficient than the car? I can carry four other people and still get better performance (from an mpg perspective).
My (nearly) 90 year old Velocette will break any speed limit in this country yet still gets more mpg than almost any similar performance bike on the road.
Bikes have backed themselves into a corner where they're almost entirely irrelevant and it's showing plain to see in sales figures. They're now too fast to enjoy on the roads and too expensive to have as toys and too st to have as decent mileage commuters.
I've always found most people that worry about mpg to be incredibly boring. They often drive people carriers, and probably the husband carries his kids in some weird kind of forward facing rucksack and claims to like changing nappies becauses it allows him to bond with his child.Bike manufacturers have chased the wrong number. All these years they've gone mental for blokes down the pub to win bhp/mph willy waving contests and have completely ignored what would almost innevitably be the most important one; mpg.
Sounds dull of course because bikes are play things now but why haven't they put any effort at all into mpg? I've been banging on about it in here for years, there's no point in me buying a new bike to use for work as I'd struggle to find one that equals the 60mpg I get from my car. And that is truley pathetic. Why would I spend £x,000 buying a bike (when I also have to have a car - as most people do) when it's no more efficient than the car? I can carry four other people and still get better performance (from an mpg perspective).
My (nearly) 90 year old Velocette will break any speed limit in this country yet still gets more mpg than almost any similar performance bike on the road.
Bikes have backed themselves into a corner where they're almost entirely irrelevant and it's showing plain to see in sales figures. They're now too fast to enjoy on the roads and too expensive to have as toys and too s
t to have as decent mileage commuters. 2wheelsjimmy said:
Spending £100 a week on fuel, I’d be keen on better mpg!
If you're travelling from Manchester to Stockport every day you may have a point.I get 30mpg in my 1.9 diesel work van. I'm ragging it.
I get similar out of my bike on the road. Going a lot quicker.
I don't know what mpg the bike or van would do if I went slower because I don't care enough.
The increasing age of bikers, offset with the prices of new bikes, is what's doing the damage.
The blokes I know the cash to spend (ie my dad and his mates) like to tour. They like fast bikes but they're no longer really interested in sports bikes for the road so they ride things like K1300S's, S1000XR's and Multistradas. Bike manufacturers know their target market is ageing, and have adjusted their products to suit. In turn, this has only led to sports bikes getting more and more focused and fast.
Some of my younger mates, lads who are only a few years younger than me, are holding off getting their licence because they don't want to pass on A2 only to have to go back for another test. A couple are actively putting it off until they can get a full licence and I don't blame them.
The blokes I know the cash to spend (ie my dad and his mates) like to tour. They like fast bikes but they're no longer really interested in sports bikes for the road so they ride things like K1300S's, S1000XR's and Multistradas. Bike manufacturers know their target market is ageing, and have adjusted their products to suit. In turn, this has only led to sports bikes getting more and more focused and fast.
Some of my younger mates, lads who are only a few years younger than me, are holding off getting their licence because they don't want to pass on A2 only to have to go back for another test. A couple are actively putting it off until they can get a full licence and I don't blame them.
Cost and complexity (license) seem to be the big barriers to entry to me.
Of the few millennials I know (I'm 45) all of them are still struggling at 30 to get into the career that they were promised by Blair's 'University for all' bullst. They all swallowed this promise and have ended up indebted to that, whilst working in jobs that don't really need a degree. Factor that in with property prices going way out of step with wages in the last 15yrs, it's impossible for most to get on the property ladder without parental help. All that I know feel that they were sold a bit of a pup, but are now having to pay back that debt.
Ergo, spunking £10k on finance on a toy that might kill them is probably viewed very dimly by their parents, some of whom are probably remortgaging their own places to give their kid a deposit on a place.
I feel sorry for the younger generation. In 2000 I bought a new ZX6R for £5k cash and could afford the deposit and mortgage on a terraced house at £80k. Times were much simpler then.
Of the few millennials I know (I'm 45) all of them are still struggling at 30 to get into the career that they were promised by Blair's 'University for all' bulls
t. They all swallowed this promise and have ended up indebted to that, whilst working in jobs that don't really need a degree. Factor that in with property prices going way out of step with wages in the last 15yrs, it's impossible for most to get on the property ladder without parental help. All that I know feel that they were sold a bit of a pup, but are now having to pay back that debt. Ergo, spunking £10k on finance on a toy that might kill them is probably viewed very dimly by their parents, some of whom are probably remortgaging their own places to give their kid a deposit on a place.
I feel sorry for the younger generation. In 2000 I bought a new ZX6R for £5k cash and could afford the deposit and mortgage on a terraced house at £80k. Times were much simpler then.
Edited by PurpleTurtle on Wednesday 25th October 22:08
I'd be surprised if MPG was a big factor in most people's bike buying decision making. I think of bikes as toys, therefore fun and performance is important but unless it's hilariously bad I couldn't care less about efficiency. I know some people use them for cheap commuting all year round but isn't this more the exception than the rule?
cmaguire said:
I've always found most people that worry about mpg to be incredibly boring. They often drive people carriers, and probably the husband carries his kids in some weird kind of forward facing rucksack and claims to like changing nappies becauses it allows him to bond with his child.
There is a few nuggets I work with whose whole lives seem to revolve round running costs for everything. The new age mangina types. Boring bds.Bikes cant compete with cars on mpg with performance, until they sort out the aero, which is crap compared to a car and the exposed rider just messes things up further. Hence the cabin motorcycle development....remember the Pereaves Monotracer ?
if they could get the price down, I would have liked to try one of these for commuting, especially with an S1000RR engine in it
https://thekneeslider.com/peraves-ecomobile-monotr...
if they could get the price down, I would have liked to try one of these for commuting, especially with an S1000RR engine in it
https://thekneeslider.com/peraves-ecomobile-monotr...
Edited by bogie on Wednesday 25th October 22:22
Loyly said:
The increasing age of bikers, offset with the prices of new bikes, is what's doing the damage.
The blokes I know the cash to spend (ie my dad and his mates) like to tour. They like fast bikes but they're no longer really interested in sports bikes for the road so they ride things like K1300S's, S1000XR's and Multistradas. Bike manufacturers know their target market is ageing, and have adjusted their products to suit. In turn, this has only led to sports bikes getting more and more focused and fast.
Oi, I'm still flying the flag.The blokes I know the cash to spend (ie my dad and his mates) like to tour. They like fast bikes but they're no longer really interested in sports bikes for the road so they ride things like K1300S's, S1000XR's and Multistradas. Bike manufacturers know their target market is ageing, and have adjusted their products to suit. In turn, this has only led to sports bikes getting more and more focused and fast.
PurpleTurtle said:
Cost and complexity (license) seem to be the big barriers to entry to me.
Of the few millennials I know (I'm 45) all of them are still struggling at 30 to get into the career that they were promised by Blair's 'University for all' bullst. They all swallowed this promise and have ended up indebted to that, whilst working in jobs that don't really need a degree. Factor that in with property prices going way out of step with wages in the last 15yrs, it's impossible for most to get on the property ladder without parental help. All that I know feel that they were sold a bit of a pup, but are now having to pay back that debt.
Ergo, spunking £10k on finance on a toy that might kill them is probably viewed very dimly by their parents, some of whom are probably remortgaging their own places to give their kid a deposit on a place.
I feel sorry for the younger generation. In 2000 I bought a new ZX6R for £5k cash and could afford the deposit and mortgage on a terraced house at £80k. Times were much simpler then.
That 17 year old ZX6r would now fetch around £1500. I've seen some J1's up for £2k+, so that's another problem in that 2nd hand bikes as I mentioned in a previous post are not coming down, so it's hard to get something decent for less than a grand. 4 months ago I bought a 1.7 ford puma as a third car for the wife to run around in. It cost £400 and came with a full MOT a air conditioning. No wonder the yoof are choosing not to bother.Of the few millennials I know (I'm 45) all of them are still struggling at 30 to get into the career that they were promised by Blair's 'University for all' bulls
t. They all swallowed this promise and have ended up indebted to that, whilst working in jobs that don't really need a degree. Factor that in with property prices going way out of step with wages in the last 15yrs, it's impossible for most to get on the property ladder without parental help. All that I know feel that they were sold a bit of a pup, but are now having to pay back that debt. Ergo, spunking £10k on finance on a toy that might kill them is probably viewed very dimly by their parents, some of whom are probably remortgaging their own places to give their kid a deposit on a place.
I feel sorry for the younger generation. In 2000 I bought a new ZX6R for £5k cash and could afford the deposit and mortgage on a terraced house at £80k. Times were much simpler then.
Edited by PurpleTurtle on Wednesday 25th October 22:08
castex said:
I think not being able to play on your 'phone while riding is harming sales rather.
Dont worry a few tech companies are solving that problem now....with HUD helmets that will deliver a sensory overload of information on your visor....im sure none of these people actually ride a bike.Perhaps in another 10 years it will be commonplace and the motorcycle test will be updated so that a learner rider has to be able to program their sat nav and make a phone call whilst doing a feet up U turn.......
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