17k for litre bikes - since when?

[Ho Lee Kau]

Birky_41 said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

18k CHF in Switzerland (with some options like heated grips and QS/B)

Im in Switzerland next week - any roads to recommend?

Cool!
I am limited to shortish weekend outings in my riding, and I am a creature of habit, so my suggestions are limited.
Sustenpass is still closed, they promised to open it mid-June.
Last weekend I was over Gotthardpass like 7 times in a row, just for fun, the road is good, no cameras (but I always check on the first run) and almost no traffic.
Grimselpass is open, you can get to it over Nufenenpass, then over Grimselpass and down to Meiringen, stop for a coffee/lunch at Frutal backery (famous for merengues) then continue over Brünigpass to Zurich, if you go there. Meiringen - that’s where Holmes/Moriarty waterfall is, Reichenbach falls. :-)

For open passes and descriptions check this (if on iPad/phone go to bottom of page and click Zur Webseite, then you get photos and descriptions and maps):
https://www.alpen-paesse.ch/en/

Nufenen from Airolo + Grimsel is a Great ride, damn, have to do it myself! And one can actually do Susten+Grimsel+Nufenen+Gotthard in one day, that’s like winning four grand slams in a row. :-)

If you go over Nufenen (or Grimsel) you can ride to Fiesch, spend a night there, take funicular up to Eggishorn and check out Aletschglacier, great vistas (that’s my Henry Cole impersonation) and great place for hiking. Betmeralp is picturesque as well.

————
What I normally do during season, get up early Saturday, ride over Sustenpass, that’s my favorite, down to Meiringen, have breakfast, maybe go up to the top of Grimselpass, reverse and go back home over Susten. I love that ride. :-)

————
Often what makes the ride worthwhile is being out early, like 6-7am, especially during vacation season, because later it gets hot and you get slowass traffic, Germans/Italians/Netherlanders, all scared of Swiss fines I guess. :-D

Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Friday 15th June 06:19

[Ho Lee Kau]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It’s still possible to have fun on two wheels in CH, but have to be smart about it.

[Ho Lee Kau]

If you can afford a new bike with the latest set of trinkets — buy it, time is more valuable than money.
If you can’t afford a new bike — no worries, old(er) bikes are almost as good as the latest ones, just missing some electronic gadgets, which are seldom needed on the roads if you have your wits about you.
IMHO

[mad4amanda]

Gavia said:

croyde said:

Just thinking that a PCP bike has to be returned in perfect condition thus you'll be having to fix things that you'd normally live with if it wasn't a rental.

Many of my bikes have not fared too well from being parked outside.

Except they don’t have to be returned in perfect condition, nor do cars. Obviously there will be a limit to what’s acceptable, but there’s no way a contract like you’ve described could be enforced.

I think you’re deciding on certain things being true without actually investigating whether that’s the case or not.

I think PCP is a great idea lets say you buy a bike for £15 k
GFV or final payment is say £10k
you only finance £5k for now over 2 years with 5k miles a year
often at low rate finance paid for by manufacturer/dealer 0% or 3-5% not uncommon
low or no deposit often available too

in 2 years time ( or whatever you decide) you have 3 options:

you trade it in for another bike in which case the dealer will be valuing the bike and mileage is not an issue nor is the odd scrape

you pay the GFV or final payment and keep the bike so mileage and condition only relevant to you. Often you can finance this at low rate from your bank or other low rate sources.

you hand the bike to the finance company and walk away ( not to the dealer)
only then does the contracted mileage matter and yes if you went over ( and there is some leeway) they will charge you the excess charge and quite rightly too but normally only if it is over by hundreds or thousands of miles.
as for condition- well it needs to have been serviced properly and the book stamped and have been kept in a reasonable condition - note not perfect so the odd scratch scrape and boot mark and bit of corrosion are acceptable. Tyres must be legal not new Chain and sprockets acceptable condition .

so basically treat the the bike as if it were an expensive item you relied upon for your transport and personal safety and wanted the best price when you sold it .....................hang on a minute what's changed?

Oh yes you don't need to finance all the bike value in one go, but its amazing how people don't understand it or treat it like its not their bike and trash it, thinking they don't need to even clean it.

Overall it means I get a new bike every couple of years that would have cost a fortune , always have warranty and roadside assistance while I have the bike at no extra cost to me . My dealer treats me like a King as he knows I am coming back for servicing and will be looking for a new bike every 18 months or so and he can't afford to piss me off .
He gives me a good trade in as I keep my bike clean and he knows he can sell it on for a good profit . He meets his registration target and gets his bonus and the manufacturer gets another bike on the roads.

Sounds like win/win/win to me. all for £149 a month and no deposit (on my last 4 bikes) all I do is insure, it tax it for a year (first year included) and buy fuel, bit of servicing and a tyre or 2 mainly down to punctures and away we go.

New Tiger sport coming next week!

[YouWhat]

The Selfish Gene said:

Birky_41 said:

Krikkit said:

Lease deals have allowed the prices to go up when the features do. The amount of technology and development in the modern litre bike is insane now.

This

One can lease a motorcycle? Where can that be done sir?

Here for a start Spyder Motorcycles

Edited by YouWhat on Friday 15th June 08:35

[308mate]

cmaguire said:

neelyp said:

Pothole said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

deliberatly created with quantative easing

someone has to pay the bank dept of, easiest way is to devalue a currency 30% and stiff the working people

debt. off.

If you're going to pontificate at least try and look like you have some basic intelligence.

Edited by Pothole on Thursday 14th June 12:00

Your picking up people for basic spelling mistakes really gets on my tits.
It adds zero value to the matter being debated and makes you come across as a total fud.

It should be "try to look" anyway, so he has fallen flat on his face anyway.

Repetition of "anyway". 4/10

[cmaguire]

308mate said:

Repetition of "anyway". 4/10

I did that on purpose.

On topic, excluding the 'exclusive' versions of some models the prices now look right to me after being held artificially low for some years.

Comparing the premium versions such as an R1M against an R1 from 7 years ago is unrealistic as the higher price is paying for parts such as Ohlins that were never available on production models previously.

[Biker 1]

mad4amanda said:

I think PCP is a great idea lets say you buy a bike for £15 k

Overall it means I get a new bike every couple of years that would have cost a fortune , always have warranty and roadside assistance while I have the bike at no extra cost to me .

Precisely this.
People still have this weird idea that actually owning the bike is better than PCP - I can't really see any practical difference. The only downsides I can see is if the bike is written off, meaning you are still paying the finance. GAP insurance is available for that of course. Also, modifying the bike could cause problems at trade-in time.

[cmaguire]

Biker 1 said:

mad4amanda said:

I think PCP is a great idea lets say you buy a bike for £15 k

Overall it means I get a new bike every couple of years that would have cost a fortune , always have warranty and roadside assistance while I have the bike at no extra cost to me .

Precisely this.
People still have this weird idea that actually owning the bike is better than PCP - I can't really see any practical difference. The only downsides I can see is if the bike is written off, meaning you are still paying the finance. GAP insurance is available for that of course. Also, modifying the bike could cause problems at trade-in time.

Two things stop me doing this.

I like to know I own the bike.
I always modify them.

[Dog Star]

mad4amanda said:

as for condition- well it needs to have been serviced properly and the book stamped and have been kept in a reasonable condition - note not perfect so the odd scratch scrape and boot mark and bit of corrosion are acceptable. Tyres must be legal not new Chain and sprockets acceptable condition .

This is what I do'nt get when people get all arsey about leasing and PCP deals - saying that the return conditions are too strict.

What do these people expect to do to £17K bikes and £45K cars in their first couple of years? I treat them as if they're my own and I don't put a scratch on them; they get cleaned and waxed and treated as my P&J regardless. I've a 1999 R1 and it's pretty well unmarked and (bar a Renntec rack) totally original - I'm pretty sure that would pass the "condition" tests of a two year PCP,

If you live by the sea with on-road parking or if you have a car and a family with three chocolate loving toddlers and a pair of big dogs then yes, I suspect that PCP is not for you. Similarly if you are going to throw the R&G crash bungs and tat catalogue at the bike, or do god-awful things like stick foul double bubble screens and power commanders then maybe you should think again.

Otherwise I can't see a problem with it if you are going to look after it as I'd expect one to look after any very expensive item.

[Birky_41]

Ho Lee Kau said:

Cool!
I am limited to shortish weekend outings in my riding, and I am a creature of habit, so my suggestions are limited.
Sustenpass is still closed, they promised to open it mid-June.
Last weekend I was over Gotthardpass like 7 times in a row, just for fun, the road is good, no cameras (but I always check on the first run) and almost no traffic.
Grimselpass is open, you can get to it over Nufenenpass, then over Grimselpass and down to Meiringen, stop for a coffee/lunch at Frutal backery (famous for merengues) then continue over Brünigpass to Zurich, if you go there. Meiringen - that’s where Holmes/Moriarty waterfall is, Reichenbach falls. :-)

For open passes and descriptions check this (if on iPad/phone go to bottom of page and click Zur Webseite, then you get photos and descriptions and maps):
https://www.alpen-paesse.ch/en/

Nufenen from Airolo + Grimsel is a Great ride, damn, have to do it myself! And one can actually do Susten+Grimsel+Nufenen+Gotthard in one day, that’s like winning four grand slams in a row. :-)

If you go over Nufenen (or Grimsel) you can ride to Fiesch, spend a night there, take funicular up to Eggishorn and check out Aletschglacier, great vistas (that’s my Henry Cole impersonation) and great place for hiking. Betmeralp is picturesque as well.

————
What I normally do during season, get up early Saturday, ride over Sustenpass, that’s my favorite, down to Meiringen, have breakfast, maybe go up to the top of Grimselpass, reverse and go back home over Susten. I love that ride. :-)

————
Often what makes the ride worthwhile is being out early, like 6-7am, especially during vacation season, because later it gets hot and you get slowass traffic, Germans/Italians/Netherlanders, all scared of Swiss fines I guess. :-D

Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Friday 15th June 06:19

Thanks! Leaving in an hour so screen shot and will look once in Europe

[Gavia]

Birky_41 said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

Cool!
I am limited to shortish weekend outings in my riding, and I am a creature of habit, so my suggestions are limited.
Sustenpass is still closed, they promised to open it mid-June.
Last weekend I was over Gotthardpass like 7 times in a row, just for fun, the road is good, no cameras (but I always check on the first run) and almost no traffic.
Grimselpass is open, you can get to it over Nufenenpass, then over Grimselpass and down to Meiringen, stop for a coffee/lunch at Frutal backery (famous for merengues) then continue over Brünigpass to Zurich, if you go there. Meiringen - that’s where Holmes/Moriarty waterfall is, Reichenbach falls. :-)

For open passes and descriptions check this (if on iPad/phone go to bottom of page and click Zur Webseite, then you get photos and descriptions and maps):
https://www.alpen-paesse.ch/en/

Nufenen from Airolo + Grimsel is a Great ride, damn, have to do it myself! And one can actually do Susten+Grimsel+Nufenen+Gotthard in one day, that’s like winning four grand slams in a row. :-)

If you go over Nufenen (or Grimsel) you can ride to Fiesch, spend a night there, take funicular up to Eggishorn and check out Aletschglacier, great vistas (that’s my Henry Cole impersonation) and great place for hiking. Betmeralp is picturesque as well.

————
What I normally do during season, get up early Saturday, ride over Sustenpass, that’s my favorite, down to Meiringen, have breakfast, maybe go up to the top of Grimselpass, reverse and go back home over Susten. I love that ride. :-)

————
Often what makes the ride worthwhile is being out early, like 6-7am, especially during vacation season, because later it gets hot and you get slowass traffic, Germans/Italians/Netherlanders, all scared of Swiss fines I guess. :-D

Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Friday 15th June 06:19

Thanks! Leaving in an hour so screen shot and will look once in Europe

You do know that you can log into the internet aka the World Wide Web anywhere in the world

[The Selfish Gene]

YouWhat said:

The Selfish Gene said:

Birky_41 said:

Krikkit said:

Lease deals have allowed the prices to go up when the features do. The amount of technology and development in the modern litre bike is insane now.

This

One can lease a motorcycle? Where can that be done sir?

Here for a start Spyder Motorcycles

Edited by YouWhat on Friday 15th June 08:35

thank you - I looked at that - did you see the costs? :-) 3 months leases for thousands!!!

[mak]

I have been meaning to tot up my tally of bike values and losses over the last 3.5 years but have avoided knowing the financial hit until now.
Not including the 2 bikes I have in the garage now. A total of 7 bikes over 3 years with a purchase cost of £47050 has resulted in a sale value of £42000 , That's a loss of £5050 in 3 years.

The most I've had in the garage at any one time is 4 bikes with a purchase value of £29700 and all sold for a total loss of £3100 within a year

My last sale was a new ktm 1290 purchased at £11250 and sold for £9500 at a year old. I reckon on one of these pcp deals with one bike over 3 years I would probably be no worse of than purchasing outright the bikes above.

After reading my own post back I have diced to go in the garage, open a can of piss water and reflect on my initial losses and bask in the glory the ONLY bike I have purchased over the last 3.5 years not to ever loose me money is my rs250 , go try find one of those on pcp

Edited to add, I neglected the cost of new tyres and chain on these bikes so my loss is even worse .

Edited by mak on Friday 15th June 19:52

[James_B]

Birky_41 said:

Yep good luck to that. Such a st time right now if you are in that area

I’ve probably mentioned this before but...

I live in Canary Wharf. My bikes are stored in the communal garage for my flats. Key-card entry, CCTV, and 24 hour security on site, frequently patrolling plus multiple high-end locks and chains.

I have had five bikes stolen in the last five years.

[mad4amanda]

cmaguire said:

Biker 1 said:

mad4amanda said:

I think PCP is a great idea lets say you buy a bike for £15 k

Overall it means I get a new bike every couple of years that would have cost a fortune , always have warranty and roadside assistance while I have the bike at no extra cost to me .

Precisely this.
People still have this weird idea that actually owning the bike is better than PCP - I can't really see any practical difference. The only downsides I can see is if the bike is written off, meaning you are still paying the finance. GAP insurance is available for that of course. Also, modifying the bike could cause problems at trade-in time.

Two things stop me doing this.

I like to know I own the bike.
I always modify them.

I guess you like to know you own it because thats what you have always done?
Try something new?

Mods are fine just take them off when you move on and flog them on ebay , mods rarely add anything to the value as one mans must have accessory is another mans tat.
But they always sell secondhand even the worst chav tat levers and double bubble irridium screens someone somewhere will buy them.

[cmaguire]

mad4amanda said:

cmaguire said:

Biker 1 said:

mad4amanda said:

I think PCP is a great idea lets say you buy a bike for £15 k

Overall it means I get a new bike every couple of years that would have cost a fortune , always have warranty and roadside assistance while I have the bike at no extra cost to me .

Precisely this.
People still have this weird idea that actually owning the bike is better than PCP - I can't really see any practical difference. The only downsides I can see is if the bike is written off, meaning you are still paying the finance. GAP insurance is available for that of course. Also, modifying the bike could cause problems at trade-in time.

Two things stop me doing this.

I like to know I own the bike.
I always modify them.

I guess you like to know you own it because thats what you have always done?
Try something new?

Mods are fine just take them off when you move on and flog them on ebay , mods rarely add anything to the value as one mans must have accessory is another mans tat.
But they always sell secondhand even the worst chav tat levers and double bubble irridium screens someone somewhere will buy them.

None of my mods are tat by the way.
Unlike the crap most bling their bikes up with.

Maybe I am a snob, but PCP just reminds me of all the chancers that tapped into interest only mortgages, often doing so with multiple properties off the back of house price rises.
Or I am just plain old-fashioned and think that if you can't afford it you shouldn't have it. PCP just makes me think of Carnells, a flawed business model.

Edited by cmaguire on Friday 15th June 21:47

[Ho Lee Kau]

Birky_41 said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

Cool!
I am limited to shortish weekend outings in my riding, and I am a creature of habit, so my suggestions are limited.
Sustenpass is still closed, they promised to open it mid-June.
Last weekend I was over Gotthardpass like 7 times in a row, just for fun, the road is good, no cameras (but I always check on the first run) and almost no traffic.
Grimselpass is open, you can get to it over Nufenenpass, then over Grimselpass and down to Meiringen, stop for a coffee/lunch at Frutal backery (famous for merengues) then continue over Brünigpass to Zurich, if you go there. Meiringen - that’s where Holmes/Moriarty waterfall is, Reichenbach falls. :-)

For open passes and descriptions check this (if on iPad/phone go to bottom of page and click Zur Webseite, then you get photos and descriptions and maps):
https://www.alpen-paesse.ch/en/

Nufenen from Airolo + Grimsel is a Great ride, damn, have to do it myself! And one can actually do Susten+Grimsel+Nufenen+Gotthard in one day, that’s like winning four grand slams in a row. :-)

If you go over Nufenen (or Grimsel) you can ride to Fiesch, spend a night there, take funicular up to Eggishorn and check out Aletschglacier, great vistas (that’s my Henry Cole impersonation) and great place for hiking. Betmeralp is picturesque as well.

————
What I normally do during season, get up early Saturday, ride over Sustenpass, that’s my favorite, down to Meiringen, have breakfast, maybe go up to the top of Grimselpass, reverse and go back home over Susten. I love that ride. :-)

————
Often what makes the ride worthwhile is being out early, like 6-7am, especially during vacation season, because later it gets hot and you get slowass traffic, Germans/Italians/Netherlanders, all scared of Swiss fines I guess. :-D

Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Friday 15th June 06:19

Thanks! Leaving in an hour so screen shot and will look once in Europe

Was over Splügenpass first time this weekend, but with a car.

Magnificent nature and scenery, loads of narrow serpentines, at one point - no asphalt (on a serpentine road!), at other points - really bad asphalt, really demanding road, but I think also a very fulfilling experience for a keen motorbiker.

There were loads of bikers on that pass, in fact.

[Mr2Mike]

mad4amanda said:

Mods are fine just take them off when you move on and flog them on ebay , mods rarely add anything to the value as one mans must have accessory is another mans tat.

If you are talking about bolt on crap then yes they can be removed. It's entirely possible to modify a bike in a way that couldn't easily be reversed.

The only reason for having PCP is if you actually want to own a new bike and you don't mind constantly paying out a sum every month until either you make a large balloon payment to keep it, or trade it in and keep the monthly payments going. You are effectively paying to keep yourself at or near the top of the depreciation curve.

[Gavia]

Mr2Mike said:

If you are talking about bolt on crap then yes they can be removed. It's entirely possible to modify a bike in a way that couldn't easily be reversed.

The only reason for having PCP is if you actually want to own a new bike and you don't mind constantly paying out a sum every month until either you make a large balloon payment to keep it, or trade it in and keep the monthly payments going. You are effectively paying to keep yourself at or near the top of the depreciation curve.

Whether you intend it to be perceived that way or not, the last sentence is what I mean by anti-PCP snobbery. It smacks of looking down your nose at those who choose to buy new. Depreciation on a bike is small compared to most other things and there’s nothing wrong with spending money. I don’t freak out that I burn petrol, or literally turn all the money that I spend on food into st.