Lorenzo, gaining respect?
Discussion
Gavia said:
Ho Lee Kau said:
I've read it somewhere as well, Rossi said that during his time at Ducati asking for something from mechanics was like begging for a favor.
Obviously, that is not how it is supposed to be.
One year at Ducati was enough for VR46.
So why did he stay for the second year then?Obviously, that is not how it is supposed to be.
One year at Ducati was enough for VR46.
Ho Lee Kau said:
Gavia said:
Ho Lee Kau said:
I've read it somewhere as well, Rossi said that during his time at Ducati asking for something from mechanics was like begging for a favor.
Obviously, that is not how it is supposed to be.
One year at Ducati was enough for VR46.
So why did he stay for the second year then?Obviously, that is not how it is supposed to be.
One year at Ducati was enough for VR46.
Your point makes no sense.
Rossi was contracted for two years, so stayed for two years, it's that simple.
If in reality this sudden speed is because of a simple tank or thigh grip thing, then that is fairly ridiculous. But not that weird in GP racing.
Years ago Jamie Robinson got a ride for the factory Suzuki 250 team, the bike was designed and built around a tiny Japanese called Noriyasu Numata, so much so that Jamie did not even fit on the thing.
It took them most of the season to even give him a seat he could fit in. So what has gone on with Ducati is common.
Nicky Hayden was wearing the number 1 plate at Honda in the first year of 800cc, and spent most of it on a bitza bike and a fairing that he couldn't fit into as Puig managed to get the team to design a midgets Pedrosa bike. One reason why a lot of people didn't like Pedrosa way back when. Mainly coz of Puig.
I value Lorenzo, from what Is aw he was no different at Duke than at Yamaha, if things were going badly he would hissy fit. Stoner did it, Gardner did it, Schwantz did it, it's a common thing. But he was always out there, I recall a practice in the wet somewhere when he was droning round for 45 minutes, everyone else was in and out, not Jorge.
If in reality this sudden speed is because of a simple tank or thigh grip thing, then that is fairly ridiculous. But not that weird in GP racing.
Years ago Jamie Robinson got a ride for the factory Suzuki 250 team, the bike was designed and built around a tiny Japanese called Noriyasu Numata, so much so that Jamie did not even fit on the thing.
It took them most of the season to even give him a seat he could fit in. So what has gone on with Ducati is common.
Nicky Hayden was wearing the number 1 plate at Honda in the first year of 800cc, and spent most of it on a bitza bike and a fairing that he couldn't fit into as Puig managed to get the team to design a midgets Pedrosa bike. One reason why a lot of people didn't like Pedrosa way back when. Mainly coz of Puig.
I value Lorenzo, from what Is aw he was no different at Duke than at Yamaha, if things were going badly he would hissy fit. Stoner did it, Gardner did it, Schwantz did it, it's a common thing. But he was always out there, I recall a practice in the wet somewhere when he was droning round for 45 minutes, everyone else was in and out, not Jorge.
chunder27 said:
If in reality this sudden speed is because of a simple tank or thigh grip thing, then that is fairly ridiculous.
Mat Oxley's article from yesterday discusses how little changes make big differences - and how a 100Euro bit of plastic helped him relax. It may have been psychological, but it looks like it took some strain off him and allowed him to go race distance without burning out. https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/motogp/...
The consistency of his lap times is what is astounding, to me. Other worldly consistency. When things are going good for Lorenzo he's sublime
benjobanjo said:
Mat Oxley's article from yesterday discusses how little changes make big differences - and how a 100Euro bit of plastic helped him relax. It may have been psychological, but it looks like it took some strain off him and allowed him to go race distance without burning out.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/motogp/...
The consistency of his lap times is what is astounding, to me. Other worldly consistency. When things are going good for Lorenzo he's sublime
I agree, it's better to have a fast happy Lorenzo in Moto GP than him leave the sport.https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/motogp/...
The consistency of his lap times is what is astounding, to me. Other worldly consistency. When things are going good for Lorenzo he's sublime
chunder27 said:
I like the lad, but watching him monotonise a GP race is one of the most boring things I have ever seen lol!
LOL indeed, though the joke's rather on you. My guess is you don't appreciate his unique skillset. Nor Sebastien Loeb's, Michael Schumacher's' Lewis Hamilton's or any of the other greats that have dominated their fields in motorsport over the years.Lorenzo is quicker than all of the aliens with the caveat that his head has to be in the right place and his bike/tyres have to be perfect too. Suitably equipped there is no one faster. Period.
Unfortunately the Lorenzo planets have aligned all too rarely over the past 2-3 years, and his tally of wins/championships could have been so much higher. but when the planets do align, I suspect even Rossi would be forced to admit there's no one faster on a Moto GP bike ...
As for his spats and moodiness, I suspect his behaviour is all too common in those "bullied" to greatness by overbearing parent trying to live their own dreams vicariously through their children.
As I've said on numerous other occasions when defending Lorenzo, read his book, then judge him.
He was bullied by his father, I know that.
I have no beef with him personally, just don't like watching him leading as he is boring, dull and unexciting to watch.
I have any beef with domination. Loeb never went anywhere other than Citroen and had no opposition so won easy titles much like Ogier since, though recent years have been harder, and Schumacher's titles were bought by Marlboro and the fact he had tyres, cars and everything designed for him specifically. Lewis the same, money no object a massive engine advantage, like Vettels cars had at Red Bull. The evidence is without doubt, look what they do away from that winning environment? It's not that hard.
They all worked harder than their rivals maybe and were as good, but they benefitted from unique circumstances.
Jorge would never have been this dominant in the early 990 years or even less so in the 500 years as he can't adapt his style as riders form that era did. he took advantage of the 800 era, Bridgestone tyres and again a unique set of circumstances, but what people forget is that Rossi had him for pace at the end of his Yamaha time and before. SO what changed?
I have no beef with him personally, just don't like watching him leading as he is boring, dull and unexciting to watch.
I have any beef with domination. Loeb never went anywhere other than Citroen and had no opposition so won easy titles much like Ogier since, though recent years have been harder, and Schumacher's titles were bought by Marlboro and the fact he had tyres, cars and everything designed for him specifically. Lewis the same, money no object a massive engine advantage, like Vettels cars had at Red Bull. The evidence is without doubt, look what they do away from that winning environment? It's not that hard.
They all worked harder than their rivals maybe and were as good, but they benefitted from unique circumstances.
Jorge would never have been this dominant in the early 990 years or even less so in the 500 years as he can't adapt his style as riders form that era did. he took advantage of the 800 era, Bridgestone tyres and again a unique set of circumstances, but what people forget is that Rossi had him for pace at the end of his Yamaha time and before. SO what changed?
chunder27 said:
He was bullied by his father, I know that.
I have no beef with him personally, just don't like watching him leading as he is boring, dull and unexciting to watch.
I have any beef with domination. Loeb never went anywhere other than Citroen and had no opposition so won easy titles much like Ogier since, though recent years have been harder, and Schumacher's titles were bought by Marlboro and the fact he had tyres, cars and everything designed for him specifically. Lewis the same, money no object a massive engine advantage, like Vettels cars had at Red Bull. The evidence is without doubt, look what they do away from that winning environment? It's not that hard.
They all worked harder than their rivals maybe and were as good, but they benefitted from unique circumstances.
Jorge would never have been this dominant in the early 990 years or even less so in the 500 years as he can't adapt his style as riders form that era did.he took advantage of the 800 era, Bridgestone tyres and again a unique set of circumstances, but what people forget is that Rossi had him for pace at the end of his Yamaha time and before. SO what changed?
Plenty on here said Lorenzo had lost it, and Dovi’s run of wins last year certainly made Lorenzo look bad, all the more so bearing in mind their pay differential. Plenty more also said that Lorenzo’s riding style wouldn’t work on the Ducati, and that even the great Rossi couldn’t make the bike work for him and his riding style.I have no beef with him personally, just don't like watching him leading as he is boring, dull and unexciting to watch.
I have any beef with domination. Loeb never went anywhere other than Citroen and had no opposition so won easy titles much like Ogier since, though recent years have been harder, and Schumacher's titles were bought by Marlboro and the fact he had tyres, cars and everything designed for him specifically. Lewis the same, money no object a massive engine advantage, like Vettels cars had at Red Bull. The evidence is without doubt, look what they do away from that winning environment? It's not that hard.
They all worked harder than their rivals maybe and were as good, but they benefitted from unique circumstances.
Jorge would never have been this dominant in the early 990 years or even less so in the 500 years as he can't adapt his style as riders form that era did.he took advantage of the 800 era, Bridgestone tyres and again a unique set of circumstances, but what people forget is that Rossi had him for pace at the end of his Yamaha time and before. SO what changed?
Well it clearly took some work to get there, but Lorenzo proved all the doubters wrong, and whilst we’ll never know what he could have done on a 500cc Moto GP bike. But on the basis he adapted to the Ducati (and Ducati adapted the bike to him) I think your assumption he couldn’t have been competitive on a 500cc two stroke, is somewhat wide of the mark
And I’d also suggest that as long as he had the front end he wanted (and thus the confidence in it) the 500 GP engine’s power delivery wouldn’t have been an issue for him to master. Slippydiff said:
chunder27 said:
He was bullied by his father, I know that.
I have no beef with him personally, just don't like watching him leading as he is boring, dull and unexciting to watch.
I have any beef with domination. Loeb never went anywhere other than Citroen and had no opposition so won easy titles much like Ogier since, though recent years have been harder, and Schumacher's titles were bought by Marlboro and the fact he had tyres, cars and everything designed for him specifically. Lewis the same, money no object a massive engine advantage, like Vettels cars had at Red Bull. The evidence is without doubt, look what they do away from that winning environment? It's not that hard.
They all worked harder than their rivals maybe and were as good, but they benefitted from unique circumstances.
Jorge would never have been this dominant in the early 990 years or even less so in the 500 years as he can't adapt his style as riders form that era did.he took advantage of the 800 era, Bridgestone tyres and again a unique set of circumstances, but what people forget is that Rossi had him for pace at the end of his Yamaha time and before. SO what changed?
Plenty on here said Lorenzo had lost it, and Dovi’s run of wins last year certainly made Lorenzo look bad, all the more so bearing in mind their pay differential. Plenty more also said that Lorenzo’s riding style wouldn’t work on the Ducati, and that even the great Rossi couldn’t make the bike work for him and his riding style.I have no beef with him personally, just don't like watching him leading as he is boring, dull and unexciting to watch.
I have any beef with domination. Loeb never went anywhere other than Citroen and had no opposition so won easy titles much like Ogier since, though recent years have been harder, and Schumacher's titles were bought by Marlboro and the fact he had tyres, cars and everything designed for him specifically. Lewis the same, money no object a massive engine advantage, like Vettels cars had at Red Bull. The evidence is without doubt, look what they do away from that winning environment? It's not that hard.
They all worked harder than their rivals maybe and were as good, but they benefitted from unique circumstances.
Jorge would never have been this dominant in the early 990 years or even less so in the 500 years as he can't adapt his style as riders form that era did.he took advantage of the 800 era, Bridgestone tyres and again a unique set of circumstances, but what people forget is that Rossi had him for pace at the end of his Yamaha time and before. SO what changed?
Well it clearly took some work to get there, but Lorenzo proved all the doubters wrong, and whilst we’ll never know what he could have done on a 500cc Moto GP bike. But on the basis he adapted to the Ducati (and Ducati adapted the bike to him) I think your assumption he couldn’t have been competitive on a 500cc two stroke, is somewhat wide of the mark
And I’d also suggest that as long as he had the front end he wanted (and thus the confidence in it) the 500 GP engine’s power delivery wouldn’t have been an issue for him to master. As for the other posters suggestion that he wouldn’t have been able to ride a 500 2T, that seems a bit at odds with his history in 125s and especially his dominance with the 250s
Depends how far back you go.
Most top 250 riders found oit very hard to adapt to 500's, Kocinski, Cadalora, Biaggi, Sarron etc. They were fast but not as consistent as Jorge was on the Yamaha, he found it tough too, crashed his brains out first year.
He was helped by the modern era, much better tyres, and a style that depended on insane edge grip that Bridgestone gave him. That then bought in the lean angles, then the Marquez effect brought in massive braking power and even more dependence on the front so much so that using harder tyres was possible.
If you look Jorge still tends to favour softer tyres like Zarco, suggesting they both ride similarly. You cannot fault Jorge, but sadly his style, though impressive is dull as f*** to watch.
Most top 250 riders found oit very hard to adapt to 500's, Kocinski, Cadalora, Biaggi, Sarron etc. They were fast but not as consistent as Jorge was on the Yamaha, he found it tough too, crashed his brains out first year.
He was helped by the modern era, much better tyres, and a style that depended on insane edge grip that Bridgestone gave him. That then bought in the lean angles, then the Marquez effect brought in massive braking power and even more dependence on the front so much so that using harder tyres was possible.
If you look Jorge still tends to favour softer tyres like Zarco, suggesting they both ride similarly. You cannot fault Jorge, but sadly his style, though impressive is dull as f*** to watch.
chunder27 said:
Depends how far back you go.
Most top 250 riders found oit very hard to adapt to 500's, Kocinski, Cadalora, Biaggi, Sarron etc. They were fast but not as consistent as Jorge was on the Yamaha, he found it tough too, crashed his brains out first year.
He was helped by the modern era, much better tyres, and a style that depended on insane edge grip that Bridgestone gave him. That then bought in the lean angles, then the Marquez effect brought in massive braking power and even more dependence on the front so much so that using harder tyres was possible.
If you look Jorge still tends to favour softer tyres like Zarco, suggesting they both ride similarly. You cannot fault Jorge, but sadly his style, though impressive is dull as f*** to watch.
Marquez, McRae and Rosberg (Keke) more your bag then ?Most top 250 riders found oit very hard to adapt to 500's, Kocinski, Cadalora, Biaggi, Sarron etc. They were fast but not as consistent as Jorge was on the Yamaha, he found it tough too, crashed his brains out first year.
He was helped by the modern era, much better tyres, and a style that depended on insane edge grip that Bridgestone gave him. That then bought in the lean angles, then the Marquez effect brought in massive braking power and even more dependence on the front so much so that using harder tyres was possible.
If you look Jorge still tends to favour softer tyres like Zarco, suggesting they both ride similarly. You cannot fault Jorge, but sadly his style, though impressive is dull as f*** to watch.
I’d go Lorenzo, Loeb and Prost ...
I saw McRae on the stages, and I’ve seen Loeb on stage too, Loeb’s speed was truly mind blowing, purely because there was no time wasting, momentum sapping histrionics behind the wheel, just pure unadulterated speed, and I think that deeply impressive in itself.
Lorenzo’’s corner entry, mid corner and corner exit speeds are similarly deeply impressive too, his economy of drama makes Marquez riding style (who I think is a genius, and whose bike control is otherworldly) look like theatrics for the sake of it.
Of course next year we’ll get to know IF the Honda HAS to be ridden in this manner, or whether Marquez beasts it because he know no other way ....
Biker's Nemesis said:
Gavia said:
That was in the garage at the back where tempers were flaring as whatever changes they’d made hadn’t worked and he was suddenly off the pace. I’m pretty sure that most riders get wound up with their crew, it just seems we remember Lorenzo more than anyone else.
You don't see Rossi or Marquez going on like that.Vinales is another petulant brat.
nervous said:
Just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
I do get some gossip from inside the yamaham moto gp team via someone who was in a top role years ago.Rossi isn't perfect by anyone's view but other riders past and present are really difficult to work with.
Marquez and Dovi are proablby the best for working and getting the best out of their team.
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