2019 BMW S1000RR
Discussion
graylag said:
How can you not like it? It’s more or less identical to every other bike that’s been launched recently. For example, if it was a Ducati with the trellis subframe, everyone would be commenting on its nod to history and character, or some other blah.
It takes knuckle heads at least 5 years to like something new.Andybow said:
The mt10 throttle response is pretty crap compared to the s1000r, they both sound good, the mt sounds epic with a decat. But it’s exactly what I was saying, in the mountains on track, short blasts Etc character Dosent matter so much, but do any big miles with boring bits and a buzzy in-line 4 just Dosent have any soul to it, a twin, V4 etc feel so much nicer imo
Inline 4 engines do a great job but to me they’re like white goods
Inline 4 engines do a great job but to me they’re like white goods
R1 Dave said:
Was it the engine that you disliked about the MT10 tho? For twisty mountain roads I suspect the appalling jerky on/off throttle response would be the biggest issue (assuming it's as bad as my R1) . I know the BMW throttle response is far more smooth and linear making the bike much easier to control when through slow speed bends.
Don't want to sound like some kind of expert, but you are correct, the on/off throttle on MT10 was very jerky. I remembered that A-mode jerk from R1 that I very shortly tried on the street back in 2015 (on the track R1 was perfect), but MT10 was even worse, because of more torque at low revs and the soft suspension. I did not like the suspension on MT10 at all. It is probably great for those who like wheelies, I am not wheelie-fanatic, so suspension softness front and back was real turn-off. Maybe SP is better, I don't know. It was April and it was cold and a bit damp and going down steep hairpins with that jerky throttle was scary. My hands were falling off from cold but I was sweating a lot from anxiety, standard MT10 is really not my cup of tea.
On S1000R the throttle is smooth, the engine is not as torque-loaded from the bottom, electronic suspension is top notch and the heated grips they were god sent! My hands were warm and I was having loads of fun on the same roads where I tried to survive on MT10 an hour before. I still cannot understand why no other manufacturer but BMW and Triumph offer heated grips as option from factory.
As far as "soul" is concerned, I am quite happy with the screamer IL4, I do not find them boring, sometimes a bit buzzy, yes (S1000RR and my GSXR1000 have no balancer shaft), but that is no big deal. I did not do 1000 in a day, but I did 500km in a day and I was not bored by engine. In fact, I covered 50k (metric) on my CBR600F4i, riding daily, and I still like it a lot. I guess I am a lost cause for the engine "soul" stuff.
Steve Bass said:
Ho Lee Kau said:
I guess I am having hard time understanding what "character" really means when it comes to engines.
Don't call me an arrogant ignorant fool now, but is it the sound you mean?
Because in terms of power curve they are all "nice", S1000RR has a great engine, I rode R1 on track last year and it was great, I rode different Fireblades, different GSXR1000 (I own the 2017 GSXR1000 now), I like them as well, engine-wise, and I really like the 1050 Triumph lump...as far as sound is concerned as soon as I start going at a fair pace I hear more wind noise in the helmet than the engine and anyway I listen to music most of the time. As far as Ducati V2 (tried 899/1199/1299S a few times) is concerned, exciting bikes and probably the most "characterful" of the lot though it is more than just the engine that makes them "characterful" imho.
Ok, so let's break it down from the top. Don't call me an arrogant ignorant fool now, but is it the sound you mean?
Because in terms of power curve they are all "nice", S1000RR has a great engine, I rode R1 on track last year and it was great, I rode different Fireblades, different GSXR1000 (I own the 2017 GSXR1000 now), I like them as well, engine-wise, and I really like the 1050 Triumph lump...as far as sound is concerned as soon as I start going at a fair pace I hear more wind noise in the helmet than the engine and anyway I listen to music most of the time. As far as Ducati V2 (tried 899/1199/1299S a few times) is concerned, exciting bikes and probably the most "characterful" of the lot though it is more than just the engine that makes them "characterful" imho.
A typical IL4 is a flat plane crank configuration which results in the power strikes being 180 degrees apart. This results in a smooth and elastic power delivery and is a simple and effective engine configuration as it's well balanced in rotational forces. But it's dull and
bland in delivery.
A v4 such as the Aprilia is set at 65 degrees which although unbalanced and requires balancing shafts produces uneven power pulses which affects the way the power is put to the rear wheel and the connection between the throttle and the tyre. So you get far better grip and go in the low to mid range. The early RSV4's suffered from a weak top end so would run out of grunt but from 2016 on in 201bhp spec pull out like an IL4.
Ducati V2 and V4 are 90 degree engines and are naturally balanced needing no balancer shafts. These have a different power characteristic again with pronounced grunt in the bottom end but less of a significant top end.
And what's the point you ask? Well at the edge of the tyre when you're really leant over the v engines offer far better throttle to tyre control and allow you to drive out whereas the IL4 will be more likely to start spinning and lose traction. For reference read about the 2T 500gp days and the difference between the screamer and big bang engines.
Yamaha however use an IL4 configuration but with a cross plane firing configuration. The power pulses are at 90 degrees which approximate a V engine like Ducati with the same characteristics and edge drive. Sadly Yamaha have never been so great at calibration of the throttle and many of their bikes are hobbled by horrific throttle response. But the first big bang R1 is a good example of the engine although it was gutless up top.
Triumph triples run a 120 degree firing pattern which is half way between the il4 and a V twin. Accordingly it has an interesting character but works best in the 675/765 sizes where its got revs to play with. 675 Daytona is one of the best bikes ever made with the triple whine and spread of torque. So there we have it.
And a small piece of advice.... Take out your earphones, put in earplugs and connect with the bike. You're switching off one of your main sensory inputs and detaching yourself. You may as well be in a car. If you're going to really ride, connect with the bike on every level from feeling the rpm, the suspension feedback from the front end, the tyre movement and grip through your ass and toes and understand what's happening underneath you rather than effectively being a passenger and detatched. That's the difference between bikes and cars and where cars allow you to sit in aircon comfort with the radio going Superbikes demand your full attention and respect for you to really 'get' what they're about. Engagement.
Now stop taking yourself so seriously and living up to your national stereotype. Take your earphones out and learn to ride properly, connected with the bike and in full control. Learn to interpret the messages it's sending you through your contact points and audio visual inputs and give it 100% attention. You'll get far more back in return.
You're welcome
Thanks for the detailed answer.
Being a bit nerdy I have also educated myself (theoretically at least) on the engine characteristics before. I even bought a "book" from Motorrad magazine, 10EUR, which is a summary of their technology articles that they published over the years, covering every part of a motorcycle in detail, with loads of color photos/pictures and graphs.
There is a part about engines, of course. So all this stuff about firing orders and shafts and effects on the grip, I have read before, though I would not be able to reproduce it as you have done.But, surely, on the road one does not notice the differences that much if at all? Especially between IL4 and big-bang R1 and V4. Maybe on track, at the limit, these differences...mmm...make a difference, but on the street...I've tried them all, and only V2 stands out as different (at lower revs).
So, you mean, I should not sell my 2014 Daytona 675?
I have read so much about it that I bought it new without ever riding one or any Triumph for that matter. It is a really great bike, the best 600(ish) ever made in my opinion but it does not see much action in my hands, I default to the good old CBR600F4i that I know in and out by now, or, on special occasions, I take a 954 or GSXR1000 for a spin.Thanks for caring, but I am ok with the headphones and music. I hear ambulances and police anyway and I am not interested in listening to wind noise and getting tinnitus. I am pretty connected to my bike, the proper connection one gets on track anyway and on track I do not listen to music.
I am the most easy-going guy you'll ever meet, and you do not even know my nationality!
graeme4130 said:
Everyone said they didn't like the look of the initial S1000RR when it first came out, but as soon as they realised how quick and capable it was compared to the competition, and then it started doing really well on the Road Racing scene, everyone was spunking all over it
Personally, I don't care too much for how a road bike looks, as once you add race fairings and a paint job, you can disguise even the ugliest bike (think Previous gen S10000RR, RSV4), but I suspect that new BMW will be a weapon in the race scene
I like the look of the new S1000RR...except for the bread box exhaust collector. Personally, I don't care too much for how a road bike looks, as once you add race fairings and a paint job, you can disguise even the ugliest bike (think Previous gen S10000RR, RSV4), but I suspect that new BMW will be a weapon in the race scene
In the end I guess one can take it off and paint it black, or maybe Wunderlich will make some expensive covers for the bottom.
In terms of looks the 2015-16 model was the best looking, imho.
And I liked the asymmetric lights right from the start, they made the bike stand out from the rest and looked ze proper german techno-style.
As soon as the new RR hits our BMW shops I will test ride one, it will be a blast, no doubt.
Personally I prefer the red paint, not the BMW Motorrad paint.
WarnieV6GT said:
Why are sport bikes almost naked in any case these days?
Is it weight? Or to aid cooling perhaps?
Either way it seems mad to me that you have to buy a sports bike and then pay for belly pans afterwards.
Must be cooling. With all the regulations those cats are getting bigger and hotter (also due to leaner mixture at low revs) and that heat rises up from the bread boxes, so better keep them open to dissipate more effectively.Is it weight? Or to aid cooling perhaps?
Either way it seems mad to me that you have to buy a sports bike and then pay for belly pans afterwards.
graylag said:
How can you not like it? It’s more or less identical to every other bike that’s been launched recently. For example, if it was a Ducati with the trellis subframe, everyone would be commenting on its nod to history and character, or some other blah.
I wasn’t clear, perform etc yes it’s an awesome machine but for me, personally I don’t like the colour scheme on that particular model. Chuck some track fairings on in whatever colour and away we go.
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