2019 BMW S1000RR

[Ho Lee Kau]

Steve Bass said:

Mr Dendrite said:

Bikesalot said:

Dakkon said:

Take some proper pictures

It's a tad wet here in Milan.

Just to clarify for HLK
A tad is two dashes or four pinches or eight Smidgeons. But it goes without saying it’s not as much as a smattering.

You can't use Imperial measures!!
Metric man... METRIC!!!!!

you are truly a clown

[Rawwr]

Ho Lee Kau said:

you are truly a clown

[dc2rr07]

Ho Lee Kau said:

Steve Bass said:

That'll do nicely
Must admit the S1K is looking really nice now. Shame about the IL4 layout though,

Why is it shame?
Is it "the sound" malarkey again or you are upset that BMW IL4 is not as expensive to maintain as Aprilia V4?

I take it you have not been on a V4, only then would you understand what all the fuss is about.

[Mr Dendrite]

Steve Bass said:

Mr Dendrite said:

Bikesalot said:

Dakkon said:

Take some proper pictures

It's a tad wet here in Milan.

Just to clarify for HLK
A tad is two dashes or four pinches or eight Smidgeons. But it goes without saying it’s not as much as a smattering.

You can't use Imperial measures!!
Metric man... METRIC!!!!!

Oops silly me A tad is 1/8 of a teaspoon, so 0.625ml. No clowning around from me

[R1 Dave]

dc2rr07 said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

Steve Bass said:

That'll do nicely
Must admit the S1K is looking really nice now. Shame about the IL4 layout though,

Why is it shame?
Is it "the sound" malarkey again or you are upset that BMW IL4 is not as expensive to maintain as Aprilia V4?

I take it you have not been on a V4, only then would you understand what all the fuss is about.

Agree with this, traditional IL4 is just a bit 'character-less' IMHO. I've owned an RSV4 and now own a '15 (Cross plane IL4) R1, plus a friend owns a '15 S1000rr which I've ridden several times.

Ill be in the market for a new (or nearly new) bike next year and the IL4 is all that puts me off the 1krr and I'm thinking I might go for a used Panigale V4 instead.

[Ho Lee Kau]

dc2rr07 said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

Steve Bass said:

That'll do nicely
Must admit the S1K is looking really nice now. Shame about the IL4 layout though,

Why is it shame?
Is it "the sound" malarkey again or you are upset that BMW IL4 is not as expensive to maintain as Aprilia V4?

I take it you have not been on a V4, only then would you understand what all the fuss is about.

Did not try V4 on track yet, but I did street ride RSV4 Factory APRC, RSV4RF and Tuono 1100 R on a few occasions, very lovely bikes, but then I do not find IL4 engine of S1000RR (I've ridden 13, 15, and 18 versions many times) any "worse". Again, I only rode them on streets and on our mountain roads and my track experience is very limited so far.
So was looking for a bit of comment with a tongue-in-cheek question from someone more experienced but only got "you make your daddy proud you ignorant, arrogant fool", talk about wooden sense of humour and a short fuse, jeez.

[Andybow]

Ho Lee Kau said:

Did not try V4 on track yet, but I did street ride RSV4 Factory APRC, RSV4RF and Tuono 1100 R on a few occasions, very lovely bikes, but then I do not find IL4 engine of S1000RR (I've ridden 13, 15, and 18 versions many times) any "worse". Again, I only rode them on streets and on our mountain roads and my track experience is very limited so far.
So was looking for a bit of comment with a tongue-in-cheek question from someone more experienced but only got "you make your daddy proud you ignorant, arrogant fool", talk about wooden sense of humour and a short fuse, jeez.

Generally riding tracks and excellent mountain roads the engine isn’t the priority , it’s all about brakes, corners, acceleration, views, tracks etc, Character generally comes from using on more mundane roads, motorways etc, IL4 generally are far more characterless in that enviroment, take a s1000rr on track or blast up a mountain you’ll being having epic fun. Ride down to the alps on one and the engine does it’s job but in a soulless way.
The cross plane engine r1, mt10 etc is fun and manic, but cruises well at legalish speeds well, do the same on a s1000r or similar and it all gets to dull and revvy,

[Ho Lee Kau]

R1 Dave said:

dc2rr07 said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

Steve Bass said:

That'll do nicely
Must admit the S1K is looking really nice now. Shame about the IL4 layout though,

Why is it shame?
Is it "the sound" malarkey again or you are upset that BMW IL4 is not as expensive to maintain as Aprilia V4?

I take it you have not been on a V4, only then would you understand what all the fuss is about.

Agree with this, traditional IL4 is just a bit 'character-less' IMHO. I've owned an RSV4 and now own a '15 (Cross plane IL4) R1, plus a friend owns a '15 S1000rr which I've ridden several times.

Ill be in the market for a new (or nearly new) bike next year and the IL4 is all that puts me off the 1krr and I'm thinking I might go for a used Panigale V4 instead.

I guess I am having hard time understanding what "character" really means when it comes to engines.
Don't call me an arrogant ignorant fool now, but is it the sound you mean?
Because in terms of power curve they are all "nice", S1000RR has a great engine, I rode R1 on track last year and it was great, I rode different Fireblades, different GSXR1000 (I own the 2017 GSXR1000 now), I like them as well, engine-wise, and I really like the 1050 Triumph lump...as far as sound is concerned as soon as I start going at a fair pace I hear more wind noise in the helmet than the engine and anyway I listen to music most of the time. As far as Ducati V2 (tried 899/1199/1299S a few times) is concerned, exciting bikes and probably the most "characterful" of the lot though it is more than just the engine that makes them "characterful" imho.

[Ho Lee Kau]

Andybow said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

Did not try V4 on track yet, but I did street ride RSV4 Factory APRC, RSV4RF and Tuono 1100 R on a few occasions, very lovely bikes, but then I do not find IL4 engine of S1000RR (I've ridden 13, 15, and 18 versions many times) any "worse". Again, I only rode them on streets and on our mountain roads and my track experience is very limited so far.
So was looking for a bit of comment with a tongue-in-cheek question from someone more experienced but only got "you make your daddy proud you ignorant, arrogant fool", talk about wooden sense of humour and a short fuse, jeez.

Generally riding tracks and excellent mountain roads the engine isn’t the priority , it’s all about brakes, corners, acceleration, views, tracks etc, Character generally comes from using on more mundane roads, motorways etc, IL4 generally are far more characterless in that enviroment, take a s1000rr on track or blast up a mountain you’ll being having epic fun. Ride down to the alps on one and the engine does it’s job but in a soulless way.
The cross plane engine r1, mt10 etc is fun and manic, but cruises well at legalish speeds well, do the same on a s1000r or similar and it all gets to dull and revvy,

Ok, then we just have different opinion about what makes an exciting engine. I tried MT10 this summer back to back with S1000R on the mountains, I had a blast on the S1000R, I couldn't wait to get off the MT10, too unhinged for my liking. I even liked the sound of S1000R more. I did enjoy R1 on track last year though.

[Biker's Nemesis]

Does this model still have wonky eyes?

[Kneedragger95]

Biker's Nemesis said:

Does this model still have wonky eyes?

From the images we've seen, no.
I hated the wonky lights at first, but over time the look of the bike grew on me, and I think the 'squint' of the headlights was what made the bike stand out from the rest, for me anyway.

[R1 Dave]

Ho Lee Kau said:

Andybow said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

Did not try V4 on track yet, but I did street ride RSV4 Factory APRC, RSV4RF and Tuono 1100 R on a few occasions, very lovely bikes, but then I do not find IL4 engine of S1000RR (I've ridden 13, 15, and 18 versions many times) any "worse". Again, I only rode them on streets and on our mountain roads and my track experience is very limited so far.
So was looking for a bit of comment with a tongue-in-cheek question from someone more experienced but only got "you make your daddy proud you ignorant, arrogant fool", talk about wooden sense of humour and a short fuse, jeez.

Generally riding tracks and excellent mountain roads the engine isn’t the priority , it’s all about brakes, corners, acceleration, views, tracks etc, Character generally comes from using on more mundane roads, motorways etc, IL4 generally are far more characterless in that enviroment, take a s1000rr on track or blast up a mountain you’ll being having epic fun. Ride down to the alps on one and the engine does it’s job but in a soulless way.
The cross plane engine r1, mt10 etc is fun and manic, but cruises well at legalish speeds well, do the same on a s1000r or similar and it all gets to dull and revvy,

Ok, then we just have different opinion about what makes an exciting engine. I tried MT10 this summer back to back with S1000R on the mountains, I had a blast on the S1000R, I couldn't wait to get off the MT10, too unhinged for my liking. I even liked the sound of S1000R more. I did enjoy R1 on track last year though.

Was it the engine that you disliked about the MT10 tho? For twisty mountain roads I suspect the appalling jerky on/off throttle response would be the biggest issue (assuming it's as bad as my R1) . I know the BMW throttle response is far more smooth and linear making the bike much easier to control when through slow speed bends.

[Andybow]

Ho Lee Kau said:

Ok, then we just have different opinion about what makes an exciting engine. I tried MT10 this summer back to back with S1000R on the mountains, I had a blast on the S1000R, I couldn't wait to get off the MT10, too unhinged for my liking. I even liked the sound of S1000R more. I did enjoy R1 on track last year though.

The mt10 throttle response is pretty crap compared to the s1000r, they both sound good, the mt sounds epic with a decat. But it’s exactly what I was saying, in the mountains on track, short blasts Etc character Dosent matter so much, but do any big miles with boring bits and a buzzy in-line 4 just Dosent have any soul to it, a twin, V4 etc feel so much nicer imo
Inline 4 engines do a great job but to me they’re like white goods

[R1 Dave]

Andybow said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

Ok, then we just have different opinion about what makes an exciting engine. I tried MT10 this summer back to back with S1000R on the mountains, I had a blast on the S1000R, I couldn't wait to get off the MT10, too unhinged for my liking. I even liked the sound of S1000R more. I did enjoy R1 on track last year though.

The mt10 throttle response is pretty crap compared to the s1000r, they both sound good, the mt sounds epic with a decat. But it’s exactly what I was saying, in the mountains on track, short blasts Etc character Dosent matter so much, but do any big miles with boring bits and a buzzy in-line 4 just Dosent have any soul to it, a twin, V4 etc feel so much nicer imo
Inline 4 engines do a great job but to me they’re like white goods

+1

[Steve Bass]

Ho Lee Kau said:

I guess I am having hard time understanding what "character" really means when it comes to engines.
Don't call me an arrogant ignorant fool now, but is it the sound you mean?
Because in terms of power curve they are all "nice", S1000RR has a great engine, I rode R1 on track last year and it was great, I rode different Fireblades, different GSXR1000 (I own the 2017 GSXR1000 now), I like them as well, engine-wise, and I really like the 1050 Triumph lump...as far as sound is concerned as soon as I start going at a fair pace I hear more wind noise in the helmet than the engine and anyway I listen to music most of the time. As far as Ducati V2 (tried 899/1199/1299S a few times) is concerned, exciting bikes and probably the most "characterful" of the lot though it is more than just the engine that makes them "characterful" imho.

Ok, so let's break it down from the top.
A typical IL4 is a flat plane crank configuration which results in the power strikes being 180 degrees apart. This results in a smooth and elastic power delivery and is a simple and effective engine configuration as it's well balanced in rotational forces. But it's dull and
bland in delivery.
A v4 such as the Aprilia is set at 65 degrees which although unbalanced and requires balancing shafts produces uneven power pulses which affects the way the power is put to the rear wheel and the connection between the throttle and the tyre. So you get far better grip and go in the low to mid range. The early RSV4's suffered from a weak top end so would run out of grunt but from 2016 on in 201bhp spec pull out like an IL4.
Ducati V2 and V4 are 90 degree engines and are naturally balanced needing no balancer shafts. These have a different power characteristic again with pronounced grunt in the bottom end but less of a significant top end.
And what's the point you ask? Well at the edge of the tyre when you're really leant over the v engines offer far better throttle to tyre control and allow you to drive out whereas the IL4 will be more likely to start spinning and lose traction. For reference read about the 2T 500gp days and the difference between the screamer and big bang engines.
Yamaha however use an IL4 configuration but with a cross plane firing configuration. The power pulses are at 90 degrees which approximate a V engine like Ducati with the same characteristics and edge drive. Sadly Yamaha have never been so great at calibration of the throttle and many of their bikes are hobbled by horrific throttle response. But the first big bang R1 is a good example of the engine although it was gutless up top.
Triumph triples run a 120 degree firing pattern which is half way between the il4 and a V twin. Accordingly it has an interesting character but works best in the 675/765 sizes where its got revs to play with. 675 Daytona is one of the best bikes ever made with the triple whine and spread of torque. So there we have it.
And a small piece of advice.... Take out your earphones, put in earplugs and connect with the bike. You're switching off one of your main sensory inputs and detaching yourself. You may as well be in a car. If you're going to really ride, connect with the bike on every level from feeling the rpm, the suspension feedback from the front end, the tyre movement and grip through your ass and toes and understand what's happening underneath you rather than effectively being a passenger and detatched. That's the difference between bikes and cars and where cars allow you to sit in aircon comfort with the radio going Superbikes demand your full attention and respect for you to really 'get' what they're about. Engagement.
Now stop taking yourself so seriously and living up to your national stereotype. Take your earphones out and learn to ride properly, connected with the bike and in full control. Learn to interpret the messages it's sending you through your contact points and audio visual inputs and give it 100% attention. You'll get far more back in return.
You're welcome

[Kneedragger95]

I recommend giving this video a watch, it explains why yamaha uses a crossplane 4 cylinder rather than a conventional flatplane 4 cylinder.

https://youtu.be/IV_36a3SeO0

[Steve Bass]

Kneedragger95 said:

I recommend giving this video a watch, it explains why yamaha uses a crossplane 4 cylinder rather than a conventional flatplane 4 cylinder.

https://youtu.be/IV_36a3SeO0

Good find despite the Americanised over production... Yo

[RemyMartin81D]

It's like they said to their design team 'Awesome ,right take the current fireblade and copy the styling buy you just make it 1000% uglier in every way'. What has been seen cannot be unseen AFAIC.

Jesus Christ it's like they haven't even tried with the cat. Wow.

I know the assymetrical lights and fairings weren't to everyone's tastes but it followed the motorrad product line look right through the range. It was instantly recognisable as a BMW when it was launched. Now we have this generic mess.

Sure I'm sure it'll ride nice etc but just look at the Panigale for a bike to fantasize about owning.

Yes I'm a Yamaha fan boy but this is wk worthy imo.

[Ho Lee Kau]

[RemyMartin81D]

Some phone screen shots apologies for the smallness.....