Is Ducati skimping on quality control again?

[Kizmiaz]

I sold new bikes for a living and fabulous as they look and ride I could not live with the fragility of them. Waaay too complicated.
Buy an old Blade. Never go wrong............

[mickrick]

It's Italian, they don't do quality control. Just look at the state of the place, it's a fking dump!

[Prof Prolapse]

mickrick said:

It's Italian, they don't do quality control. Just look at the state of the place, it's a fking dump!

What the hell are you talking about?

Firstly, QC and reliability aren't even the same thing. Also, if we're going to generalise against an entire nation, let's get it balanced, they make some of the finest exotic high performance automotive engineering on earth, and pretty much always have been specialists in exotic engineering since medieval times.

As for it being a "dump", I'm not convinced you've ever left the ghettos of Rome. They also have some of the most beautiful and iconic cities on Earth. Vienna, Florence, Venice. Countryside wise the mountains and Lake Como, to the North, Sicily to the south.

Although obviously it's a fking dump compared to the delights of the fking UK. I mean we've got the likes of, Hull, Swansea, Slough, and Dundee, and the fking Quantocks, how could the country that birthed the renaissance really fking compete with our collapsed former industrial towns, composed entirely of people with an over compensated sense of entitlement because their great grandad died somewhere in a war most don't even know the dates of.

Honest to god.... Winston Churchill got it half right, the best argument against democracy is 5 minutes on fking pistonheads.

Edited by Prof Prolapse on Friday 21st December 09:55

[Slipperywang]

Tango13 said:

Ducati had a cutaway V4 at the NEC bike show and a car mechanic mate took one look at the cam chain and commented that VW use the same chain in their cars and they stretch 'cos they're ste...

My mate is a mechanic and one of the most common job that he does on VW polos is a timing chain replacement. He said the same, that they are st and stretch and eventually slip on the cogs which means a piston can hit a valve if big enough of a slip, normally just makes engine run like st. Also the VAG cogs that the timing chains are attached to are made in china which isn't confidence inspiring.

I can imagine the highly tuned ducati engine will put more strain on the timing chain then the 1L engine in the VW polo.

[Andy XRV]

Prof Prolapse said:

I'll get a Ducacti V4 of some description eventually,

According to Ducati they are going to release 22 new models over the next few years and as quite a few will have the V4 motor you should have plenty of choice! A super nakid can't be far away to compete with the Tuono, SD an MT10.

[Krikkit]

Slipperywang said:

I can imagine the highly tuned ducati engine will put more strain on the timing chain then the 1L engine in the VW polo.

And how does that translate to the chain tensioner? I think the Polo issue is the poor chains which stretch, once the tensioner is at its max travel the chain is then free to slip.

The recall, FYI, is for an oil leak, nothing to do with the tensioner failing to tension and grenading the engine...

Edited by Krikkit on Friday 21st December 11:07

[Prof Prolapse]

Andy XRV said:

According to Ducati they are going to release 22 new models over the next few years and as quite a few will have the V4 motor you should have plenty of choice! A super nakid can't be far away to compete with the Tuono, SD an MT10.

It really is a great time to be a motorcyclist and disgustingly middle class.

Very excited.

[Fastdruid]

Slipperywang said:

I can imagine the highly tuned ducati engine will put more strain on the timing chain then the 1L engine in the VW polo.

The Ducati engine is a Desmo. It doesn't have valve springs (which are the main source of strain on timing chains), although as pointed out earlier it still has hairpin springs to help the valves seal and ensure the collars stay in place.

Without the hefty valve springs however the strain on the timing chain is going to be an order of magnitude less on a highly strung bike engine than even a little 1l VW Polo....and even if they're using the same chains there are *two* of them and the Ducati is a V4 instead of a inline-4 (or is it a 3 now?) so the strain is halved.

The desmo drive is also why Ducati could get away with belt drive to the valve train.

[Prof Prolapse]

Fastdruid said:

Desmos are very different though, because the valves are positively closed (rather than by spring) the stress on the chain is *far* lower.

Fastdruid said:

As I said before. It's a desmo, it has no valve springs. Honestly this place is a fking write only medium sometimes.

Fastdruid said:

The Ducati engine is a Desmo. It doesn't have valve springs (which are the main source of strain on timing chains), although as pointed out earlier it still has hairpin springs to help the valves seal and ensure the collars stay in place.

Can anybody confirm if the Desmo uses valve springs?

I think I may have read somewhere that it didn't have them, but I can't recall.

[Krikkit]

I'll quote me from the last page:

Krikkit said:

They don't use valve springs directly, but there are small springs on the desmo shafts to take a little slop up and keep everything sensible. Nothing that would stretch a chain mind.

2018 parts manual for the V4.

[Walter Sobchak]

Just to update this thread I had a recall letter today for the oil cooler and tensioner adjustment, they say it’s ok to ride the motorcycle at low speed as the oil leaking is gradual and quite noticeable but can you contact your supplying dealer ASAP to get it booked in.
I don’t know wether to get this done specially or just do it around March/April when I’m going to get it serviced as I doubt it’s going to get ridden before then anyway.

[Andy XRV]

Prof Prolapse said:

Andy XRV said:

According to Ducati they are going to release 22 new models over the next few years and as quite a few will have the V4 motor you should have plenty of choice! A super nakid can't be far away to compete with the Tuono, SD an MT10.

It really is a great time to be a motorcyclist and disgustingly middle class.

Very excited.

[Ho Lee Kau]

mickrick said:

It's Italian, they don't do quality control. Just look at the state of the place, it's a fking dump!

It is not a dump, it is Italy.
As soon as I cross the border from Switzerland to Italy I feel at home (I am not Italian, I am not Swiss), culture, language, food, people, I am big fan of it all.

[mickrick]

Prof Prolapse said:

mickrick said:

It's Italian, they don't do quality control. Just look at the state of the place, it's a fking dump!

What the hell are you talking about?

Firstly, QC and reliability aren't even the same thing. Also, if we're going to generalise against an entire nation, let's get it balanced, they make some of the finest exotic high performance automotive engineering on earth, and pretty much always have been specialists in exotic engineering since medieval times.

As for it being a "dump", I'm not convinced you've ever left the ghettos of Rome. They also have some of the most beautiful and iconic cities on Earth. Vienna, Florence, Venice. Countryside wise the mountains and Lake Como, to the North, Sicily to the south.

Although obviously it's a fking dump compared to the delights of the fking UK. I mean we've got the likes of, Hull, Swansea, Slough, and Dundee, and the fking Quantocks, how could the country that birthed the renaissance really fking compete with our collapsed former industrial towns, composed entirely of people with an over compensated sense of entitlement because their great grandad died somewhere in a war most don't even know the dates of.

Honest to god.... Winston Churchill got it half right, the best argument against democracy is 5 minutes on fking pistonheads.

Edited by Prof Prolapse on Friday 21st December 09:55

Haha! OK, it was a sweeping generalization. I have just spent 5 months in Italy, and granted there are some nice places. Portofino, Florence, I liked. But yes, most of it in my opinion is a dump.
I'm not a fan of their engineering, I'm not keen of Ferrari's, or Lamborghini (I have driven one, and it did nothing for me) I'm an engineer on an Italian built yacht, and it's the biggest piece of st boat I have ever had the misfortune to be at sea in. Seriously, I did a new build in Taiwan some years back, and ran the boat for 8 years, and it was leaps ahead of what I'm on now.
I have spent 6 months in a shipyard in Viareggio, during the build, and they're a nightmare to work with.
They have a very rich history, but it's a bit like the Pyramids and Egypt, you have to wonder what the hell went wrong!
Oh and the pollution! My god! it's the dirtiest water I have ever seen, and I've been around the World a couple of times.
I was so happy to get home at the end of the summer! I live in Mallorca, so I'm not comparing it to UK

[turbomoped]

At the very least you would think they would have run a fleet of them round the clock in disguised bodywork.
They must think that as most of the owners just gently run down to a coffee shop once a month they dont have to bother.

[turbomoped]

interesting thing I read today. Suzuki ran the first gsxr750 oilboiler engine at the readline for 24 hrs in the mid 80s before it was ready for production.
Maybe we just use computer simulations now.

[Biker 1]

I would be interested to see real world comparison statistics Jap V European bikes, including lifetime reliability, recalls, etc.
I've never owned a Ducati, so hard to comment, but Honda must have done something right to have such a bullet proof reputation - Africa Twin rotting in front of one's eyes excepted....

[catso]

Prof Prolapse said:

They also have some of the most beautiful and iconic cities on Earth. Vienna, Florence, Venice.

did they move it from Austria?

agreed otherwise

[Krikkit]

turbomoped said:

At the very least you would think they would have run a fleet of them round the clock in disguised bodywork.
They must think that as most of the owners just gently run down to a coffee shop once a month they dont have to bother.

They will have, but production parts aren't always identical to the prototype ones, especially from 3rd party suppliers.

Biker 1 said:

I would be interested to see real world comparison statistics Jap V European bikes, including lifetime reliability, recalls, etc.
I've never owned a Ducati, so hard to comment, but Honda must have done something right to have such a bullet proof reputation - Africa Twin rotting in front of one's eyes excepted....

And that's part of it, much like German cars, the Japanese reputation for reliability is assumed, the Ducati (and other Italian brands I'm sure) will automatically be assumed to be crap.

Doesn't matter how they really perform overall, as soon as a Jap bike has issues it's the exception, with an Italian it'd be "Aha, it had to break down sooner or later"... They can't win.

[Prof Prolapse]

catso said:

Prof Prolapse said:

They also have some of the most beautiful and iconic cities on Earth. Vienna, Florence, Venice.

did they move it from Austria?

agreed otherwise

Hahaha, Verona.

In my defence, I’m st at geography.