Nortons current state

[Ed.]

It is disappointing that he could get away with it all for so long. Found this on a Spondon engineering thread, it's from 2012

https://www.bikerglory.com/news/the-norton-saga/

[tedblog]

Wacky Racer said:

I hope that Norton rises (again) in the future, even if it's in ten year time, an iconic English brand with a heritage going back years.

It will only be in name if it restarted again, The heritage side ended years ago.

[Alfaguy]

Sadly I see the same outcome heading for Triumph and many other UK manufacturers thanks to all your Brexit madness. Pity - Norton had the potential to produce some really nice motorcycles.

[Hungrymc]

Turning a topic about a criminal abusing staff, customers and investors into a Brexit discussion.... madness did you say?

[tedblog]

Alfaguy said:

Sadly I see the same outcome heading for Triumph and many other UK manufacturers thanks to all your Brexit madness. Pity - Norton had the potential to produce some really nice motorcycles.

Why would that happen? Triumph build motorcycles that people want to buy , the retro market has been very good for them. Sales are again up this year?
If Norton had built the bikes it had actually taken deposits for then it might have survived? He was chasing a dream with the V4 , too expensive and too focused. Build more bikes for the masses not just a few, when you get those masses then build for the few? Isnt that what Triumph have done?

Edited by tedblog on Tuesday 4th February 07:55

[PorkInsider]

Ed. said:

It is disappointing that he could get away with it all for so long. Found this on a Spondon engineering thread, it's from 2012

https://www.bikerglory.com/news/the-norton-saga/

I really don't know how they managed to retain a decent image in the bike press for so long, with the well known issues of bikes being paid for and not materialising?

[Fundoreen]

Curious about the spondon acquisition. Following that Norton still didn't even make the frames for the 960 bike.
I can only assume spondon had already lost its best pipe benders and welders to somebody good or retirement and they
took all the jigs with them.
Creigton saying they never even had bike lifters and benches just makes you furious.
I remember footage from donington hall where they just had rows of bikes on like the carpet in the empty shell of maybe the dinning room and people on their knees tooling about like you do in the back yard of your council house.
Was on that henry twerps nostaliga show on itv4 where he rides the latest old 50cc moped dragged out of some nuts shed up a private road telling the audience that he's reliving his youth.
All well and good once but doing it every show just makes you look soft in the head. Get a proper bike and go outside a 1 mile radius.
Programs like that are just a front that trigger wallet out for rubbish like the norton scam.

[Birky_41]

Alfaguy said:

Sadly I see the same outcome heading for Triumph and many other UK manufacturers thanks to all your Brexit madness. Pity - Norton had the potential to produce some really nice motorcycles.

Now THAT... just made me laugh

[Krikkit]

PorkInsider said:

Ed. said:

It is disappointing that he could get away with it all for so long. Found this on a Spondon engineering thread, it's from 2012

https://www.bikerglory.com/news/the-norton-saga/

I really don't know how they managed to retain a decent image in the bike press for so long, with the well known issues of bikes being paid for and not materialising?

Same thing Ferrari do - make sure the press don't use anything but the official bike, which is quietly gone through with a fine-tooth comb, blueprinted engine etc. The ones owners receive are nothing like as well made.

[wsn03]

Alfaguy said:

Sadly I see the same outcome heading for Triumph and many other UK manufacturers thanks to all your Brexit madness. Pity - Norton had the potential to produce some really nice motorcycles.

Oh no! We need another referendum and another until we get the right result, then we'll all be saved.

[Pothole]

tedblog said:

Alfaguy said:

Sadly I see the same outcome heading for Triumph and many other UK manufacturers thanks to all your Brexit madness. Pity - Norton had the potential to produce some really nice motorcycles.

Why would that happen? Triumph build motorcycles that people want to buy , the retro market has been very good for them. Sales are again up this year?
If Norton had built the bikes it had actually taken deposits for then it might have survived? He was chasing a dream with the V4 , too expensive and too focused. Build more bikes for the masses not just a few, when you get those masses then build for the few? Isnt that what Triumph have done?

Edited by tedblog on Tuesday 4th February 07:55

Huge sales outside Europe, too (nearly 50%) and the deal with Bajaj is aiming for the Asian market. I doubt European sales will be hit particularly hard post-Brexit, but we can wait and see. No firm info either way, but their sales and marketing machine is excellent as are all the other branches of the business. Triumph will be just fine.

[FezSpider]

Krikkit said:

Same thing Ferrari do - make sure the press don't use anything but the official bike, which is quietly gone through with a fine-tooth comb, blueprinted engine etc. The ones owners receive are nothing like as well made.

There called press cars and most manufacturers like ferrari ,maclaren and Lamborghini also do it. Sending dedicated teams along to the testing days.
Clearly you have not been around modern ferraris, there a long way from the 80s & 90s.

[Krikkit]

FezSpider said:

There called press cars and most manufacturers like ferrari ,maclaren and Lamborghini also do it. Sending dedicated teams along to the testing days.
Clearly you have not been around modern ferraris, there a long way from the 80s & 90s.

I'm sure they're well built, but what I'm saying is they leave nothing to chance with the press fleet.

I'm sure the other manufacturers do the same with their own fleets, what they aren't famous for doing is threatening owners with exclusion from future purchases if they lend out their cars to the press.

[Max5476]

Pothole said:

tedblog said:

Alfaguy said:

Sadly I see the same outcome heading for Triumph and many other UK manufacturers thanks to all your Brexit madness. Pity - Norton had the potential to produce some really nice motorcycles.

Why would that happen? Triumph build motorcycles that people want to buy , the retro market has been very good for them. Sales are again up this year?
If Norton had built the bikes it had actually taken deposits for then it might have survived? He was chasing a dream with the V4 , too expensive and too focused. Build more bikes for the masses not just a few, when you get those masses then build for the few? Isnt that what Triumph have done?

Edited by tedblog on Tuesday 4th February 07:55

Huge sales outside Europe, too (nearly 50%) and the deal with Bajaj is aiming for the Asian market. I doubt European sales will be hit particularly hard post-Brexit, but we can wait and see. No firm info either way, but their sales and marketing machine is excellent as are all the other branches of the business. Triumph will be just fine.

Don't shout to loudly, but they make a lot of bikes in Thailand as well. They will just import them directly into Europe if that is the more efficient route for tariffs. They will still be designing (possibly less making) bikes in the UK for a while yet.

[FezSpider]

Krikkit said:

I'm sure they're well built, but what I'm saying is they leave nothing to chance with the press fleet.

I'm sure the other manufacturers do the same with their own fleets, what they aren't famous for doing is threatening owners with exclusion from future purchases if they lend out their cars to the press.

Yea, I agree with most of that. Maclaren seem to rule with an iron fist as ferrari does. They have been real nasty buggers to the owners were the cars have caught alight, and they wanted there owners to keep quite or deny it was maclarens production fault. They treat them disgracefully.
I dont mean to digress.

Edited by FezSpider on Tuesday 4th February 21:20

[Krikkit]

FezSpider said:

Yea, I agree with most of that. Apart from maclaren, they have been real buggers to the owners were the cars have caught alight. They treat them disgracefully.

Hasn't heard that, straight from the handbook of getting dissatisfied customers it seems. I bet the more established brands are much more sensible.

[FezSpider]

Krikkit said:

Hasn't heard that, straight from the handbook of getting dissatisfied customers it seems. I bet the more established brands are much more sensible.

You know if you put in YouTube " maclaren fire", you may be shocked.
Here is one guy who is taking maclaren to court because his million dollar car caught fire a few days after purchase, and there mugging him of.

Edited by FezSpider on Tuesday 4th February 21:33

[bolidemichael]

PorkInsider said:

Ed. said:

It is disappointing that he could get away with it all for so long. Found this on a Spondon engineering thread, it's from 2012

https://www.bikerglory.com/news/the-norton-saga/

I really don't know how they managed to retain a decent image in the bike press for so long, with the well known issues of bikes being paid for and not materialising?

This article and the comments within are unbelievable - it's a must read.

[Unbusy]

bolidemichael said:

This article and the comments within are unbelievable - it's a must read.

It’s a real eye opener isn’t it?
I’m amazed that it wasn’t well known and would’ve surely made customers think differently about placing a deposit. Or at least doing more due diligence.
Robbing Peter to pay Paul within the company is what most (all?) companies would do to stay afloat and keep trading. Then the situation deteriorates and pension funds get robbed in desperation. Mirror paper and ... was it Delta Airlines in the USA.
Cash flow is a killer for smaller companies and knowing when to call it a day as CEO is hard to do when the house is with the banks.
I hope the workers can get employment elsewhere soon. For the bikers that got stitched up, I hope they can get over it and move on without too much anger.

[bolidemichael]

You make some very pertinent points, perhaps experience of business?

However, I think that you discount the fact that some very notable individuals comment on this blog/article and all of them commenting on Stuart Garner's resistance to listen to sage guidance in so many departments of the business of motorcyle manufacture and racing, let alone so many more other aspects of the business.

The comments feature posts from the editors of MCN and Superbike, a freelance journo working for Classic Bike (owned business Bauer Media), Brian Crichton, his son, the ex-sales assistant to Kevin Walker, distributors (the official Swiss importer), suppliers, customers and more.

It is even suggested that poster 'moto pixie' is actually a nom de plume for Garner himself as he trolls the journalist, Nick!

It's unusual, I have seldom read such high quality motorcyle journalism since the untimely demise of the much loved and plain talking Kevin Ash. The caveat is that Nick went quiet from 2014 and only recently popped up to say that he thinks that the company should be doing okay now... which wasn't too prescient!