Nortons current state

[Fire99]

Krikkit said:

Must admit I'd be surprised if someone doesn't rescue it -

As would I. Yes, there are some major failing in how the company has been run etc (which have been well documented), but the product line-up is to my mind very good. The range of bikes and engines is impressive and with correct management / ownership I feel it could prosper.

( I feel very bad for the guy who's bike went in for warranty work though.. That is shocking!)

[PorkInsider]

Looks like the walls are closing in on Garner.

Just been featured on ITV evening news and article online.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-02-12/norton-motorcy...

[hiccy18]

bloomen said:

https://twitter.com/Notnorton_Moto/status/12269236...

Someone's V4SS taken in for warranty work was apparently then used to... build more of them.

Must admit that makes me lose sympathy for the workers: the guy at the top didn't wave the spanners over that, the technicians who knowingly did that have no better morals than the boss. Appalling thieving tts, frankly.

[FezSpider]

PorkInsider said:

Looks like the walls are closing in on Garner.

Just been featured on ITV evening news and article online.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-02-12/norton-motorcy...

Yeah just saw the item on itv. It's a shame that clip you posted was only part of the feature.
Lol. Noticed how he rocks up to court in some old ford, like he has nothing The mans a rat.

[lukeyman]

Would any new owners be liable for any of the missing pensions?

[NS400R]

lukeyman said:

Would any new owners be liable for any of the missing pensions?

Depends what they buy. If they bought just the assets, no liability.

[PorkInsider]

FezSpider said:

Yeah just saw the item on itv. It's a shame that clip you posted was only part of the feature.
Lol. Noticed how he rocks up to court in some old ford, like he has nothing The mans a rat.

Fear not. The whole thing has been loaded to YT now.

https://youtu.be/Xvbn3r4D5X4

[ceesvdelst]

Sadly seems like the entire thing was a con, just like Gillet and Donington all those years ago, and I do hope this man does not get away with it and gets banged up with his mates who conned people out of their pensions, anyone who does that seriously needs to be put inside, it is beyond cruel.

[Auntieroll]

hiccy18 said:

Must admit that makes me lose sympathy for the workers: the guy at the top didn't wave the spanners over that, the technicians who knowingly did that have no better morals than the boss. Appalling thieving tts, frankly.

Rather harsh words.
How could/would the workers know that the bike had not been "bought back" by the company from an dissatisfied customer.?
They may have been totally unaware of the situation.... ,

Not trying in any way to gloss over the appalling mess that the once great name of Norton
has sunk down to , Pa Norton must be spinning in his grave.

I sincerely hope that Garner and any of his cohorts get their just desserts ,IMO anyone conning people out of their pensions is a certain candidate for the presiding judge to don his black hat to pronounce sentence.
Hopefully someone will pick up the shattered remains of the business and resurrect the business with proper finance and management .

[hiccy18]

Auntieroll said:

Rather harsh words.
How could/would the workers know that the bike had not been "bought back" by the company from an dissatisfied customer.?
They may have been totally unaware of the situation.... ,

Not trying in any way to gloss over the appalling mess that the once great name of Norton
has sunk down to , Pa Norton must be spinning in his grave.

I sincerely hope that Garner and any of his cohorts get their just desserts ,IMO anyone conning people out of their pensions is a certain candidate for the presiding judge to don his black hat to pronounce sentence.
Hopefully someone will pick up the shattered remains of the business and resurrect the business with proper finance and management .

I don't think so: you can't genuinely believe that no one except Garner knew the situation with that particular bike. How many people worked there? There's no way the boss got his hands dirty, likewise he would not be the sole person in charge of customer services or warranty claims. Several people in that company will have known exactly what was going on with that bike and didn't stop the theft of parts: "poor show" is that better? Still thieving tts, frankly.

I accept there will have been perfectly innocent people working there who have been affected by this.

[Dick Dastardly]

Vickers_VC10 said:

https://www.facebook.com/CrightonRacing/photos/a.1...

needs locking up.

For those without Facebook.

That is shocking.

I assume they were so desperate to issue new bikes to new customers, in order to generate some income, that they happily screwed over existing customers.

You’ve either got to be the dumbest CEO in history, or the most optimistic, to think this strategy is going to save you.

[Krikkit]

hiccy18 said:

I don't think so: you can't genuinely believe that no one except Garner knew the situation with that particular bike. How many people worked there? There's no way the boss got his hands dirty, likewise he would not be the sole person in charge of customer services or warranty claims. Several people in that company will have known exactly what was going on with that bike and didn't stop the theft of parts: "poor show" is that better? Still thieving tts, frankly.

I accept there will have been perfectly innocent people working there who have been affected by this.

If you're aware of how precarious the situation is (and everyone would be from the watercooler chatter) and a manager turns up and says "Take this bike for some spares and get x and y bikes out the door", it'd be a brave bloke to refuse even if you had the full picture, and I assume they wouldn't. P45 in the post, clear your desk and sod off. Easy to say "I wouldn't" from the armchair.

[Fire99]

Auntieroll said:

Rather harsh words..

I'm not going to start condemning employees based on assumptions that "they must have known". That's ridiculous. Stuart Garner and those 'at the top' have a lot to answer for but I'm not turning this into some kind of jagged assault on employees. Should the person who serves the tea be shot at dawn because they dared to hand Garner a cuppa?

[morebeanz]

Noone manufactures a new bike from used parts in that way, and any mechanic stripping it would have known.

As for "it would take a brave man", no it wouldn't, just someone with moral decency.

[Pothole]

Fire99 said:

Auntieroll said:

Rather harsh words..

I'm not going to start condemning employees based on assumptions that "they must have known". That's ridiculous. Stuart Garner and those 'at the top' have a lot to answer for but I'm not turning this into some kind of jagged assault on employees. Should the person who serves the tea be shot at dawn because they dared to hand Garner a cuppa?

Not sure that makes them and accessory to theft, does it? Given the small number of bikes produced and sold and the small number of employees, it's hard to see how most of them would not have known what was going on when asked to strip parts off that bike to put on a "new" bike. If that is, indeed, what happened.

We're all making assumptions based on a single Facebook post which we're justifying because Garner is clearly a gambler with other people's money at best and a dirty crook at worst. I'm going to try not to do that in future. I'd love to know how complicit everyone else was and how much MCN and Henry Cole knew about what's been going on.

[Killboy]

Fire99 said:

I'm not going to start condemning employees based on assumptions that "they must have known". That's ridiculous. Stuart Garner and those 'at the top' have a lot to answer for but I'm not turning this into some kind of jagged assault on employees. Should the person who serves the tea be shot at dawn because they dared to hand Garner a cuppa?

I would love to know what the employees thought they were doing stripping bikes to build other bikes (if that is indeed true). People aren't (that) dumb, and gossip spreads - there must have been signs all over the place.

[boyse7en]

So apparently Stuart Garner failed to appear at the pension ombudsman's hearing this morning.

Sounds like he's just going to go into hiding and hope it all blows over eventually. Do we have an extradition treaty with South Africa?

[moanthebairns]

Vickers_VC10 said:

https://www.facebook.com/CrightonRacing/photos/a.1...

needs locking up.

For those without Facebook.

Who leaves brake calipers just hanging there like that......

[ceesvdelst]

If any of you have ever worked in a manufacturing environment as I have most of my life you are sometimes asked to do ridiculous things to justify something, be it an audit, visit, or something like this. I have washed cars, painted lines, taken stuff apart to put it back together again (I kid you not)

Having enquired about work at Norton years ago, they paid appallingly, mainly employed kids on minimum wage from the people I spoke to and it would be no shock that they also employed foremen and supervisors who were often bullies.

yes a workman has the ability to speak his mind, but in this type of environment it is not hard to believe that doing so would have probably got you the sack

[poo at Paul's]

Vickers_VC10 said:

https://www.facebook.com/CrightonRacing/photos/a.1...

needs locking up.

For those without Facebook.

Lack of forks aside, could it not the rest stripped and sent for painting? It could be a supplier has it all waiting for payment of other monies?
Wheels are painted on these, bodywork, the chrome style, is paint I think, and specialist stuff at that, so could be at a supplier ?