Nortons current state
Discussion
Esceptico said:
Surely the market for nostalgia bikes has to be limited going forward as those old enough to remember Norton or other British bikes when they were new probably won’t be around or riding in ten or twenty years.
Personally I think the bike market in the U.K. is f
ked anyway. Last bike show I went to it was all middle aged men (or older). Similar for track days. Maybe I’m wrong but how many twenty year olds are getting into bikes today (I tried and failed to find statistics on line for number of new riders per year)? Who will be buying bikes when the current crop of old gits hang up their leathers?
I agree. When you see a large group of bikers at a meet, say Devil's Bridge, Matlock Bath, Rivington Barn etc, they are nearly all in their 50's upwards, very few 20 odd year olds....unlike forty years ago.Personally I think the bike market in the U.K. is f
ked anyway. Last bike show I went to it was all middle aged men (or older). Similar for track days. Maybe I’m wrong but how many twenty year olds are getting into bikes today (I tried and failed to find statistics on line for number of new riders per year)? Who will be buying bikes when the current crop of old gits hang up their leathers?Esceptico said:
Surely the market for nostalgia bikes has to be limited going forward as those old enough to remember Norton or other British bikes when they were new probably won’t be around or riding in ten or twenty years.
Personally I think the bike market in the U.K. is fked anyway. Last bike show I went to it was all middle aged men (or older). Similar for track days. Maybe I’m wrong but how many twenty year olds are getting into bikes today (I tried and failed to find statistics on line for number of new riders per year)? Who will be buying bikes when the current crop of old gits hang up their leathers?
This:Personally I think the bike market in the U.K. is f
ked anyway. Last bike show I went to it was all middle aged men (or older). Similar for track days. Maybe I’m wrong but how many twenty year olds are getting into bikes today (I tried and failed to find statistics on line for number of new riders per year)? Who will be buying bikes when the current crop of old gits hang up their leathers?Those who remember Nortons with rose tinted nostalgia are, literally, a dying breed. Even now, most of those below 55 will simply remember them as the slow, unreliable, rattling old oil leaks that sad old men rode while moaning about "real bikes" and referring to "Jap crap".
There will be a VERY limited marked of historical enthusiasts with enough money to buy the old bikes and have something new but I doubt that there will be anywhere near enough of those to keep a business going.
The only chance I see for the Norton name is if the Chinese buy it in an attempt to get into the likes of the US market with some sort of brand legitimacy.
black-k1 said:
Esceptico said:
Surely the market for nostalgia bikes has to be limited going forward as those old enough to remember Norton or other British bikes when they were new probably won’t be around or riding in ten or twenty years.
Personally I think the bike market in the U.K. is fked anyway. Last bike show I went to it was all middle aged men (or older). Similar for track days. Maybe I’m wrong but how many twenty year olds are getting into bikes today (I tried and failed to find statistics on line for number of new riders per year)? Who will be buying bikes when the current crop of old gits hang up their leathers?
This:Personally I think the bike market in the U.K. is f
ked anyway. Last bike show I went to it was all middle aged men (or older). Similar for track days. Maybe I’m wrong but how many twenty year olds are getting into bikes today (I tried and failed to find statistics on line for number of new riders per year)? Who will be buying bikes when the current crop of old gits hang up their leathers?Those who remember Nortons with rose tinted nostalgia are, literally, a dying breed. Even now, most of those below 55 will simply remember them as the slow, unreliable, rattling old oil leaks that sad old men rode while moaning about "real bikes" and referring to "Jap crap".
There will be a VERY limited marked of historical enthusiasts with enough money to buy the old bikes and have something new but I doubt that there will be anywhere near enough of those to keep a business going.
The only chance I see for the Norton name is if the Chinese buy it in an attempt to get into the likes of the US market with some sort of brand legitimacy.
Steve Bass said:
I think Norton could live on as an exotic brand harking back to it's history but offering bang up to date, cutting edge, high tech exotica. Koeniggsegg (sp) proves a point that high tech exotica will always sell. Whether it's parked in a personal showroom/collection or thrashed up and down is moot. it was sold, made a profit and gave people employment. There's no shame in being ridiculously expensive and exclusive, plenty of successful business do well on that model.
I'm not sure there's enough interest with enough disposable income to support that in the motorcycle world, and, for every successful Koenigsegg type company, there are many many failures. I'd love for you to be right but I just don't see it working in the real world.black-k1 said:
Steve Bass said:
I think Norton could live on as an exotic brand harking back to it's history but offering bang up to date, cutting edge, high tech exotica. Koeniggsegg (sp) proves a point that high tech exotica will always sell. Whether it's parked in a personal showroom/collection or thrashed up and down is moot. it was sold, made a profit and gave people employment. There's no shame in being ridiculously expensive and exclusive, plenty of successful business do well on that model.
I'm not sure there's enough interest with enough disposable income to support that in the motorcycle world, and, for every successful Koenigsegg type company, there are many many failures. I'd love for you to be right but I just don't see it working in the real world.black-k1 said:
Those who remember Nortons with rose tinted nostalgia are, literally, a dying breed. Even now, most of those below 55 will simply remember them as the slow, unreliable, rattling old oil leaks that sad old men rode while moaning about "real bikes" and referring to "Jap crap".
There will be a VERY limited marked of historical enthusiasts with enough money to buy the old bikes and have something new but I doubt that there will be anywhere near enough of those to keep a business going.
The only chance I see for the Norton name is if the Chinese buy it in an attempt to get into the likes of the US market with some sort of brand legitimacy.
I think the current form is the best of both worlds - the nostalgia lovers want the name, but you could buy one as they're good-looking and interesting bikes. Look at the CCM Spitfire/Bobber etc as a good example, loads of younger folk want them as it's a high-quality and interesting product.There will be a VERY limited marked of historical enthusiasts with enough money to buy the old bikes and have something new but I doubt that there will be anywhere near enough of those to keep a business going.
The only chance I see for the Norton name is if the Chinese buy it in an attempt to get into the likes of the US market with some sort of brand legitimacy.
The only way I could see it working would be as a halo brand for one of the other manufacturers who have some synergy (or could develop some), a bit like Bimota is to Kawasaki. Can’t see Triumph being interested, so possibly one of the Chinese manufacturers, although there seems to be some uncertainty as to who owns the Norton IP.
gareth h said:
The only way I could see it working would be as a halo brand for one of the other manufacturers who have some synergy (or could develop some), a bit like Bimota is to Kawasaki. Can’t see Triumph being interested, so possibly one of the Chinese manufacturers, although there seems to be some uncertainty as to who owns the Norton IP.
Wasn't there a Triumph/Norton collaboration back in the day? I could see Triumph adding Norton to their brand as they already have some £18k retro custom bikes for sale.FunkyNige said:
Wasn't there a Triumph/Norton collaboration back in the day? I could see Triumph adding Norton to their brand as they already have some £18k retro custom bikes for sale.
BSA/Triumph/Ariel were one company (BSA). AJS/Matchless/Norton/James/Francis Barnett etc. were another (AMC - Associated Motor Cycles).Then only Triumph, BSA, and Norton still existed, and Norton was bought by Manganese Bronze.
Eventually only Triumph and Norton were left, and when the industry went completely tits up they were merged into Norton Villiers Triumph (NVT).
FunkyNige said:
Wasn't there a Triumph/Norton collaboration back in the day? I could see Triumph adding Norton to their brand as they already have some £18k retro custom bikes for sale.
If they got the brand cheaply I agree. Its so sad for the creditors of this mess, he will have got a lot of money outside the UK no doubt. Hopefully he will be prosecuted at least.
Jazzy Jag said:
NOW that sycophantic rag gets involved? Enabling scum for the last decade or so, they're disgusting.Jazzy Jag said:
Unless Jinlang got possession of the 961 engine drawings and tooling before administration, they'll just be unsecured creditors like everyone else.NS400R said:
Jazzy Jag said:
Unless Jinlang got possession of the 961 engine drawings and tooling before administration, they'll just be unsecured creditors like everyone else.article said:
But Jinlang say the deal for the 961 engine platform, including all of the engine tooling, is not part of the administration process as the deal was already done.
There are photographs of the Jinlang Science and Technology Co LTD company director, Huacong Wu, signing a contract with Garner at the end of December.
A spokesman for Jinlang said: "We will work with our design partner in Italy to develop a new motorcycle using the 961 engine, which we will sell worldwide."
They may well have taken them away already.There are photographs of the Jinlang Science and Technology Co LTD company director, Huacong Wu, signing a contract with Garner at the end of December.
A spokesman for Jinlang said: "We will work with our design partner in Italy to develop a new motorcycle using the 961 engine, which we will sell worldwide."
Steve Bass said:
What's the betting he gets away with it scot-free AND retains the Norton IP......
This is exactly what he is attempting to do - by having that other company registered in his wifes name. I wouldnt be totally shocked if the Norton brand was only ever on licence/rent to the Norton company that we know is in administration and its owned by Garner elsewhere under a totally different banner.
As for the bike market, the problem for me is buying new bikes means having a good credit rating, its HARD these days to have a decent credit rating and disposable income to save up etc unless you live under your parents roof or decide not to have any kids or whatever.
Im 35 and passed in december just gone when i was 34, but id been meaning to do it for the last ten years just never got around to doing it.
Seems to be LOADS of young lads ragging about the estates on crosser type bikes these days - maybe if biking schemes where advertised a little more and they knew how to get into riding a bike legally you might see more doing it?
I will say you are correct for the most part when you go to meets etc you do see a lot of guys 50+ but i suppose their kids have grown up and fled the nest or are doing their own thing so said guys are looking for something to do.
Pothole said:
They may well have taken them away already.
He fking knew the ship was sinking FAST and that was the last bit of cash he could get into the company i suspect - but i also think its a massive tangled web and that the actual company in admin wont end up owning anything, itl be all rented or on licence from another seperate holding company - the brand and that sort of stuff, i even think the designs for the bikes will be held under a seperate company or in someones personal possession rented to norton, id put absolutely nothing past that crook, Garner!Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff