Advanced Riding - IAM/Resource

[zzrman]

V8RX7 said:

Watch the first 7 minutes and tell me what you learnt

Exactly. Zilch.

I'm sure Reg as an ex Police Driver has a great deal of experience but the Rapid guys all have Class 1 Motorcycle badges which count for a lot more and as Reg only passed his motorcycle test 2 years ages I know whose opinion I'd be valuing. As for the IAM in my experience their near obsession with speed limits - admirable though that may be - ignores real world riding and the Rapid guys understand that.

Edited by zzrman on Wednesday 26th February 20:33

[BugLebowski]

V8RX7 said:

Watch the first 7 minutes and tell me what you learnt

It's Youtube grandad not a VCR, quite easy to skip forward if you like. It's also quite obviously an introduction, I doubt if he's going to start all videos the same way.

[zzrman]

BugLebowski said:

It's also quite obviously an introduction, I doubt if he's going to start all videos the same way.

One can only hope so.......

[V8RX7]

BugLebowski said:

V8RX7 said:

Watch the first 7 minutes and tell me what you learnt

It's Youtube grandad not a VCR, quite easy to skip forward if you like. It's also quite obviously an introduction, I doubt if he's going to start all videos the same way.

Exactly it's youtube not a 3 hr film, we want content NOW !

[black-k1]

BugLebowski said:

It's Youtube grandad not a VCR, quite easy to skip forward if you like. It's also quite obviously an introduction, I doubt if he's going to start all videos the same way.

Only if you know in advance where the "interesting" content starts, or even that there is "interesting" content further in the video. Given the "value" of such videos is in the commentary you have to listen to pretty much the whole of the commentary if you're to be sure of getting the value.

I think it's great that Reg has done the video and I wouldn't want to put him off doing more but, on the assumption he is doing them and posting them up on Youtube so that people watch/listen to them and take something of value away from them, then I'd suggest there is no "take away" value in the first 7 minutes.

[squirdan]

its not the answer to the question that the OP was asking but £50 Bikesafe day is an absolute bargain. Its not really riding skills so much as hazard perception, understanding risks, and learning data about why accidents occur, when, how etc.

All serving police motorbike officers and the ones I road with were good lads.

well worth a day

[NGRhodes]

https://www.survivalskills.co.uk is a good complement to the IAM/Roadcraft style systems.
Relatively active on https://www.facebook.com/SurvivalSkills/ and https://www.therevcounter.co.uk/forums/11-Staying-... as The Spin Doctor.

https://www.survivalskills.co.uk/rskills.htm contains links to many useful articles.

Edited by NGRhodes on Thursday 27th February 11:15

[seveb]

outnumbered said:

Since Reg used to be a police instructor, I would say he's probably worth listening to...

I've done IAM training, several Rapid Training days, plus watched all sorts of youtube videos. You can learn a lot from all of them.

I don't think so - he admits the vast majority of his work and training has been in cars and he's just moved to bikes. He's also fallen into the IAM trap. His video is comforting to a new rider but he's not doing or saying anything in the video that should come as a surprise to anybody who's been riding for a few years and has read the police manual and maybe done a bikesafe day.

Get some training from a police biker who's spent 20 years escorting, chasing and catching on various roads in terrible conditions and survived to tell the tale. They tend to have a very different attitude and I agree are well worth engaging with for training - well worth the cost.

[seveb]

Reg Local said:

V8RX7 said:

Honest feedback - delete the first 7 minutes

You’re getting me confused with someone who cares about other people’s opinions.

Oh, and there we have it. I'd not read that. If he's not interested in other peoples opinions of a short video which he's presumably posted up for, well, er, opinions, then he sounds too arrogant to learn properly so what he has to pass on will be of limited value.

I'll stick with bike trainers who have been riding for more than 2 years thanks

[WinstonWolf]

seveb said:

outnumbered said:

Since Reg used to be a police instructor, I would say he's probably worth listening to...

I've done IAM training, several Rapid Training days, plus watched all sorts of youtube videos. You can learn a lot from all of them.

I don't think so - he admits the vast majority of his work and training has been in cars and he's just moved to bikes. He's also fallen into the IAM trap. His video is comforting to a new rider but he's not doing or saying anything in the video that should come as a surprise to anybody who's been riding for a few years and has read the police manual and maybe done a bikesafe day.

Get some training from a police biker who's spent 20 years escorting, chasing and catching on various roads in terrible conditions and survived to tell the tale. They tend to have a very different attitude and I agree are well worth engaging with for training - well worth the cost.

I did my advanced training with police bikers, back then NSL meant No Sodding Limit

You were basically taught pursuit riding, happy days

[outnumbered]

seveb said:

He's also fallen into the IAM trap. His video is comforting to a new rider but he's not doing or saying anything in the video that should come as a surprise to anybody who's been riding for a few years and has read the police manual and maybe done a bikesafe day.

Maybe you can explain a bit more what the "IAM Trap" is ?

I also don't think that reading Roadcraft, or even doing a Bikesafe day, is the norm for most riders. But in the end, the good thing is that there are many alternatives for getting advanced training, to suit different opinions and personalities.

[airsafari87]

WinstonWolf said:

I did my advanced training with police bikers, back then NSL meant No Sodding Limit

OT
When I was learning to ride some 20 years ago my instructor referred to them as 'Go like f**k' signs.

I still call them that to this day.

[seveb]

outnumbered said:

Maybe you can explain a bit more what the "IAM Trap" is ?

I also don't think that reading Roadcraft, or even doing a Bikesafe day, is the norm for most riders. But in the end, the good thing is that there are many alternatives for getting advanced training, to suit different opinions and personalities.

Not really, but if you insist, it's like training by Chinese whispers . I've no idea about Rospa and other organisations, not investigated them.

Chummy in the video, after only riding for 2 years - just 2 years - thinks he's the bees knees because he's passed some tests set by the last people to pass the tests, and offers his advice to people who've got significantly more experience than him. With just two years riding experience regardless of how many tests he's passed, he won't yet be a competent rider.

Rapid Training have this statement on their about page. Compare chappy with 2 years experience and a youtube video and these people:

"Every Rapid trainer holds the British Police highest and most coveted motorcycle qualification. As Class 1 riders, they have vast experience riding in the most challenging conditions where precision, speed and safety are paramount. However, it takes more than this to meet the demanding Rapid standard. It takes dedication, commitment and outstanding instructing capability. Our team’s extensive professional experience, deep passion for riding and commitment to intense continuous development, ensure Rapid remains uniquely placed to deliver the most advanced road rider training available."

I know who gets my money.

[outnumbered]

Fair enough... But I also think there's little or nothing in the commentary in Reg's video that the Rapid guys would disagree with.

[seveb]

outnumbered said:

Fair enough... But I also think there's little or nothing in the commentary in Reg's video that the Rapid guys would disagree with.

Probably not. Might be a nice bloke, nice day out and all that but with Rapid Training they will get more out of you than he would, they will just know so much more than him. You'll come away thinking "I really had no idea I could do that".

[YouWhat]

seveb said:

Not really, but if you insist, it's like training by Chinese whispers . I've no idea about Rospa and other organisations, not investigated them.

Chummy in the video, after only riding for 2 years - just 2 years - thinks he's the bees knees because he's passed some tests set by the last people to pass the tests, and offers his advice to people who've got significantly more experience than him. With just two years riding experience regardless of how many tests he's passed, he won't yet be a competent rider.

Rapid Training have this statement on their about page. Compare chappy with 2 years experience and a youtube video and these people:

"Every Rapid trainer holds the British Police highest and most coveted motorcycle qualification. As Class 1 riders, they have vast experience riding in the most challenging conditions where precision, speed and safety are paramount. However, it takes more than this to meet the demanding Rapid standard. It takes dedication, commitment and outstanding instructing capability. Our team’s extensive professional experience, deep passion for riding and commitment to intense continuous development, ensure Rapid remains uniquely placed to deliver the most advanced road rider training available."

I know who gets my money.

Well our IAM Observers have a days training every 2 years with Rapid, paid for by our local IAM to make sure they are still at the correct level. Some of them also have 50 years of riding experience does that count?

[zzrman]

seveb said:

Probably not. Might be a nice bloke, nice day out and all that but with Rapid Training they will get more out of you than he would, they will just know so much more than him. You'll come away thinking "I really had no idea I could do that".

I agree wholeheartedly.

[zzrman]

YouWhat said:

Well our IAM Observers have a days training every 2 years with Rapid, paid for by our local IAM to make sure they are still at the correct level. Some of them also have 50 years of riding experience does that count?

I think it counts but where the IAM Observer sticks religiously to the NSL llimits I beg to depart, and I don't mean that I want to ride like a straight line throttle jockey whenever the opportunity presents itself.

[WinstonWolf]

seveb said:

outnumbered said:

Maybe you can explain a bit more what the "IAM Trap" is ?

I also don't think that reading Roadcraft, or even doing a Bikesafe day, is the norm for most riders. But in the end, the good thing is that there are many alternatives for getting advanced training, to suit different opinions and personalities.

Not really, but if you insist, it's like training by Chinese whispers . I've no idea about Rospa and other organisations, not investigated them.

Chummy in the video, after only riding for 2 years - just 2 years - thinks he's the bees knees because he's passed some tests set by the last people to pass the tests, and offers his advice to people who've got significantly more experience than him. With just two years riding experience regardless of how many tests he's passed, he won't yet be a competent rider.

Rapid Training have this statement on their about page. Compare chappy with 2 years experience and a youtube video and these people:

"Every Rapid trainer holds the British Police highest and most coveted motorcycle qualification. As Class 1 riders, they have vast experience riding in the most challenging conditions where precision, speed and safety are paramount. However, it takes more than this to meet the demanding Rapid standard. It takes dedication, commitment and outstanding instructing capability. Our team’s extensive professional experience, deep passion for riding and commitment to intense continuous development, ensure Rapid remains uniquely placed to deliver the most advanced road rider training available."

I know who gets my money.

How many years *road* experience has Reg got and at what standard? He's not covering riding technique per-se in that vid, he's covering roadcraft which happens to be being done on a bike.

[black-k1]

Anyone who believes they can't learn form another rider, regardless of either persons years of riding, is being, at best, short sighted and, at worst, extremely arrogant.