Road legal bikes banned from certain roads due to noise

[BobSaunders]

Kawasicki said:

BobSaunders said:

Let's introduce some facts please... It's a pilot project for a limited set of noisy motorcyles. The driving ban is valid from June 10th to October 31st 2020.

The temporary ban was introduced due to 70% of traffic being motorcycles - 3,300 motorcycles in one given day on one road. That's a lot.

The ban is for motorcycles with a stationary noise (near field level) > 95 dB (A).

It's limited to the following roads;

- B 198 Lechtalstraße from Steeg (Vorarlberg border) to Weißenbach am Lech

- B 199 Tannheimerstrasse from Weißenbach am Lech to Schattwald (German border)

- L 21 Berwang-Namloser Straße from Bichlbach to Stanzach

- L 72 Hahntennjochstraße 2nd part from Pfafflar to Imst (pass summit)

- L 246 Hahntennjochstraße 1st part from Imst (pass summit) to Imst crossing Vogelhändlerweg

- L 266 Bschlaber road from Elmen to Pfafflar

It should be noted however, that 44% of respondents didnt like the noise - the pilot ban was introduced on a minority rule. Which is worrying.

https://www.tirol.gv.at/verkehr/verkehrsrecht/moto...

https://www.tirol.gv.at/verkehr/verkehrsrecht/moto...

Thanks for your facts. They don't change the discussion one jot.

Kinda does.. they have limited it to select limited sections of popular roads, and select motorcyle noise limits, for a select length of time, as a select pilot. Based on a monumentous number of motorcycles per day, which totally outweigh the number of cars and trucks by over 70%.

For clarity, my bike wouldnt meet their noise limit, but i can see why they have done it.

I assume you will be creating a thread on the outrageous ULEZ in due course?

Edited by BobSaunders on Wednesday 3rd June 10:43

[InitialDave]

black-k1 said:

This is yet another step in a very worrying trend. There is an ever increasing gradual creep of legislation making it more and more difficult to ride an otherwise legal motorcycle. Those that don't think it affects them are, at best, short sighted and naive. If it "works" how long do you think it'll be until it's applied to the Highlands (no more NC500) or the Dales, or North Wales etc.

As a group we must carry a lot of the blame for this. The selfish bds who ride with baffles out or loud pipes are responsible for this. Joe Public does not want to hear your bike yet is being forced to endure it. Joe Public does not know the difference, and couldn't care less about the difference, between a modified exhaust and a standard one so will opt for the easy answer of ban the lot.

Forget the totally unproven cobblers that says "loud pipes save lives" and remember that load pipes will kill motorcycling!

Bingo.

It's like with cars, I do like something a bit rorty, but as with bikes, there are a lot of insufferable tts who seem to regard it as their mission to be as obnoxiously loud as possible, I both detest the racket and the inevitable splashback it causes on people like me who are sensible about things.

There's a huge swathe of stuff in life where you actually have quite a lot of leeway to do things that aren't strictly allowed, but if people take the piss and annoy everyone around them, it'll get clamped down on.

[BobSaunders]

InitialDave said:

black-k1 said:

This is yet another step in a very worrying trend. There is an ever increasing gradual creep of legislation making it more and more difficult to ride an otherwise legal motorcycle. Those that don't think it affects them are, at best, short sighted and naive. If it "works" how long do you think it'll be until it's applied to the Highlands (no more NC500) or the Dales, or North Wales etc.

As a group we must carry a lot of the blame for this. The selfish bds who ride with baffles out or loud pipes are responsible for this. Joe Public does not want to hear your bike yet is being forced to endure it. Joe Public does not know the difference, and couldn't care less about the difference, between a modified exhaust and a standard one so will opt for the easy answer of ban the lot.

Forget the totally unproven cobblers that says "loud pipes save lives" and remember that load pipes will kill motorcycling!

Bingo.

It's like with cars, I do like something a bit rorty, but as with bikes, there are a lot of insufferable tts who seem to regard it as their mission to be as obnoxiously loud as possible, I both detest the racket and the inevitable splashback it causes on people like me who are sensible about things.

There's a huge swathe of stuff in life where you actually have quite a lot of leeway to do things that aren't strictly allowed, but if people take the piss and annoy everyone around them, it'll get clamped down on.

The worrying thing is that this pilot was started on a 44% minority view.

[Kawasicki]

BobSaunders said:

Kinda does.. they have limited it to select limited sections of popular roads, and select motorcyle noise limits, for a select length of time, as a select pilot. Based on a monumentous number of motorcycles per day, which totally outweigh the number of cars and bikes by over 70%.

For clarity, my bike wouldnt meet their noise limit, but i can see why they have done it.

I assume you will be creating a thread on the outrageous ULEZ in due course?

Kinda doesn't. Your facts don't invalidate the thread. They give additional information, none of which makes the ban of road legal motorbikes any more logical.

I can also see why they did it. I don't agree with it though...even though my bike isn't banned.

If I do start a thread on the ULEZ, I'll be sure to write a 25,000 word first post...you know, just to avoid missing any important facts...

[Gixer968CS]

PushedDover said:

V8RX7 said:

PushedDover said:

Good imho - there is a certain level of shriek that penetrates the countryside from bikers opening it up, that really is unnecessary IMHO.

Either you didn't read the OP, or you are stupid

This is for STANDARD bikes - none of them shriek and if noise was an issue then why are ONLY bikes banned, not other vehicles that are AS LOUD / LOUDER.

I did thank you.
And perhaps I am stupid.

Or perhaps as pointed out, the scream of a bike - standard or not, is not fking welcomed by generally anyone outside of a the helmet that is hurtling down the road.
VW' had cars that pass the emissions tests. I don't doubt for a moment there are shennanigans to make a motorbike pass a noise test - yet howl away under throttle.



As an aside, putting words in capitals very rarely displays a sense of articulation desired.
Perhaps you were not hoping for opinions on this thread you started - and I apologise if that was the case.
Therefore I offer : "I agree with you"

If you wanted to just have a grumble and rally support for this heinous act of the Authorities, without any come back, I suggest Twitter is your medium.

Edited by PushedDover on Tuesday 2nd June 17:18

I think the issue you have here is that no bikes with standard exhausts shriek, but that a very large percentage of bikes (especially (most?) sports bikes) are fitted with illegal exhausts and these are the ones you hear so loudly buzzing around.

[popeyewhite]

Gixer968CS said:

I think the issue you have here is that no bikes with standard exhausts shriek,

Aprilia Tuono

[Steve Bass]

At the end of the day, and irrespective of the number of bikes per day, they are underrtaking a legal activity with legal machinery on public roads.
If the issue is the noise caused by illegally noisy pipes, then deal with that as the law provides remedies for this infraction. But to barr legal vehicles from a legal activity on the public road is a dangerous precedent.
if I had paid my annual licanse fee, I would expect the right to utilise all and any road in the pursuit of my daily life excepting those closed for repair or smiliar.
To barr my access when the road is neither a toll road or my vehicle is fully legal may actually give rise to a legal challenge. On what legal basis is my right of way being denied to me?

Slippery slope gents...

[BobSaunders]

Kawasicki said:

BobSaunders said:

Kinda does.. they have limited it to select limited sections of popular roads, and select motorcyle noise limits, for a select length of time, as a select pilot. Based on a monumentous number of motorcycles per day, which totally outweigh the number of cars and bikes by over 70%.

For clarity, my bike wouldnt meet their noise limit, but i can see why they have done it.

I assume you will be creating a thread on the outrageous ULEZ in due course?

Kinda doesn't. Your facts don't invalidate the thread. They give additional information, none of which makes the ban of road legal motorbikes any more logical.

I can also see why they did it. I don't agree with it though...even though my bike isn't banned.

If I do start a thread on the ULEZ, I'll be sure to write a 25,000 word first post...you know, just to avoid missing any important facts...

Your thread title was clickbait. It's a limited and temporary pilot program, not an outright mandatory ban.

Road legal motorcycles? Elsewhere maybe. Not in Austria on specific roads, for a specific time period, for specific machines.

If you feel your rights are specifically infringed then you need to challenge the law. Is there a change.org petition you want me to sign or something?

You forget everyone was up in arms over Euro emission standards and bike strangulation. Manufacturers adapted. Now they are producing Euro 4,5, 6 compliant bikes with more power than ever before. We'll be fine.

[irocfan]

BobSaunders said:

InitialDave said:

black-k1 said:

This is yet another step in a very worrying trend. There is an ever increasing gradual creep of legislation making it more and more difficult to ride an otherwise legal motorcycle. Those that don't think it affects them are, at best, short sighted and naive. If it "works" how long do you think it'll be until it's applied to the Highlands (no more NC500) or the Dales, or North Wales etc.

As a group we must carry a lot of the blame for this. The selfish bds who ride with baffles out or loud pipes are responsible for this. Joe Public does not want to hear your bike yet is being forced to endure it. Joe Public does not know the difference, and couldn't care less about the difference, between a modified exhaust and a standard one so will opt for the easy answer of ban the lot.

Forget the totally unproven cobblers that says "loud pipes save lives" and remember that load pipes will kill motorcycling!

Bingo.

It's like with cars, I do like something a bit rorty, but as with bikes, there are a lot of insufferable tts who seem to regard it as their mission to be as obnoxiously loud as possible, I both detest the racket and the inevitable splashback it causes on people like me who are sensible about things.

There's a huge swathe of stuff in life where you actually have quite a lot of leeway to do things that aren't strictly allowed, but if people take the piss and annoy everyone around them, it'll get clamped down on.

The worrying thing is that this pilot was started on a 44% minority view.

sort of - that's not to say that 56% didn't want a ban. The reality is that of that 56% the vast majority didn't give a fig either way.

[Steve Bass]

BobSaunders said:

Road legal motorcycles? Elsewhere maybe. Not in Austria on specific roads, for a specific time period, for specific machines.

Problem with this staement Bob is the machines are Euro compliant and legally sold/bought in the country. To impose a tertiary ban on an otherwise legal activity with legal equipment is worrying in the avenues it opens up.
Granted, it may affect 0.00001% of UK riders, and with the UK's exit from Eurpoe unlikely to corss polinate into the UK, but even so.... dangerous precedent. What other perfectly legal activities, both personal and business shall be closed beiuse of a minority opinion?

[Pothole]

Steve Bass said:

To barr my access when the road is neither a toll road or my vehicle is fully legal may actually give rise to a legal challenge. On what legal basis is my right of way being denied to me?

Slippery slope gents...

Slippery slope where?

[Pothole]

Steve Bass said:

Problem with this staement Bob is the machines are Euro compliant and legally sold/bought in the country. To impose a tertiary ban on an otherwise legal activity with legal equipment is worrying in the avenues it opens up.
Granted, it may affect 0.00001% of UK riders, and with the UK's exit from Eurpoe unlikely to corss polinate into the UK, but even so.... dangerous precedent. What other perfectly legal activities, both personal and business shall be closed beiuse of a minority opinion?

So to paraphrase, let's get Daily Mail excited about something which is never likely to happen? Really? Waste of energy.

[Steve Bass]

Pothole said:

Slippery slope where?

For you, any roundabout apparently

/Serious head on/

In the context of the UK? Minimal I would think BUT, the fact that a right of way is being denied on the basis of a particular vehicle is being used, which was bought legally and complies with the laws (as they stand) in force sets a dangeous precedent (in the context of European laws and legislation)

In short, if an activity is undertaken in complaince of the Law, we are obliged to accept and support such activities, regardless of our personal opinion. Otherwise, our freedoms become defined by special interest groups and not the laws of the land. Seems imaterial until those infringements become relevant o to our particular intersts and lives. At which point, why have laws if they are not the foundation by which we live our lives?

(at this point you're welcome to pound your clenched fist to your breast, hum you favourite anthem and stand brskly to attention) or don't.
But trust me, freedoms should be cherished and defended, much of the planet would sell themselves into bondage to have such liberty for their children.

Edited by Steve Bass on Wednesday 3rd June 11:44

[black-k1]

Pothole said:

Steve Bass said:

To barr my access when the road is neither a toll road or my vehicle is fully legal may actually give rise to a legal challenge. On what legal basis is my right of way being denied to me?

Slippery slope gents...

Slippery slope where?

To a permanent ban, on these and many other roads.

What do you think the outcome of the pilot is likely to be?

Q. "Did the pilot ban work? Was it quieter?"
A. "Yes"

Q. "Should the ban be made permanent?"
A. "Yes"

[Steve Bass]

Pothole said:

So to paraphrase, let's get Daily Mail excited about something which is never likely to happen? Really? Waste of energy.

Yes and no.

On an individual interest specific matter? No

As a general defence of the rights of indiviuals under the law? Definately

Except, it's not the UK and really only of interest to the locals affected.

Should a resident of the Uk care? I'll not say either way, but the errosion of the rights of law are worrying.

it's how the US is where it is today and how dictators like Mr Hitler formed their dictatorships.

Just intersting from a civil libeberties perspective you understand....

[Ho Lee Kau]

Lemanandbeyond said:

Whilst this is new in Austria its happening in other destinations as already pointed out. As Ho Lee said Switzerland is becoming less tolerant of loud vehicles, I have been stopped twice in the last 3 weeks on my bike and the first thing the police looked at on the bike was the exhaust. Mine is completely standard and a 2020 model so there were no problems but it shows they are taking a very strict line on this.

The Harleys are ridiculous, I am not sure if there are more here but some of them are crazy loud & actually annoying even for a petrolhead. There has to be some common ground of enjoyment without nuisance. Don't get me wrong like I say I am a petrolhead and have an AMG merc but didnt go for the sports exhaust as it was too "look at me" pop bang etc.

If others follow like Germany riding at weekends in certain areas will become more restricted, with the heavy policing of speed ,noise will be next and as K1 pointed out could lead to the death of motorcycling.

We are an easy target that's why motorbikes have been put in the bullseye for these controls.

Edited by Lemanandbeyond on Wednesday 3rd June 08:43

You should have specced sport-exhaust for the AMG, well, as long as it is a V8, they sound fruity! :-)

I do not think motorcycling will die, but it will be more restricted in terms of pollution and noise and will therefore become more ugly and more expensive.

[Ho Lee Kau]

black-k1 said:

... do you really think there will be motorcycling in 35 years time?

35 years?
That's a LONG time and no point worrying about.
I am more interested in the next 1-5 years.

[Ho Lee Kau]

Pravus1 said:

People who say they can never hear a standard car have obviously never lived near anyone who own a farting golf r, bmw m4 or merc any amg's with a v8

leave the AMG V8 out of it, please!
the same goes for Giulia Quadrifoglio and any NA Porsche.

M4s, Golfs (and anything 4-pot, really) yes, with modified exhaust that sound tinny and produce retarded popping, I feel sorry for those fools, they try to hard.

[Killboy]

"stationary noise (near field level) > 95 dB (A)?"

Does this mean at idle? Considering my KTM Twin with MIVV cans can pass the 98db limit of UK Trackdays @ 5000rpm, I'd completely understand this "limit".

[Evanivitch]

Ho Lee Kau said:

You should have specced sport-exhaust for the AMG, well, as long as it is a V8, they sound fruity! :-)

I do not think motorcycling will die, but it will be more restricted in terms of pollution and noise and will therefore become more ugly and more expensive.

Electric motorcycles already exist...