Did my CBT...

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

vindaloo79 said:

Iminquarantine said:

A lot of people buy a 500-650cc bike as their first full licence bike, then sell it after awhile. Myself included.

Just save yourself the trouble and buy a 800-1200cc from the off.

Isn’t the progressive approach considerably safer when starting out ?

I would say so and I have read that it makes you a better rider. Also you get to ride more bikes as you work your way up.

[Krikkit]

I don't really understand that argument - no newbie is going to jump straight from DAS onto a litre bike and have the skills to ride it really quickly, except scaring the crap out of themselves in a straight line... Even a 600 will be well beyond their capabilities, so what does it matter what the bike can do? Either way it'll take thousands of miles and lots of hours practice before you start to gain the skills.

Buy whatever you fancy imho, as you'll enjoy it more.

[raining_sulphur]

Krikkit said:

I don't really understand that argument - no newbie is going to jump straight from DAS onto a litre bike and have the skills to ride it really quickly, except scaring the crap out of themselves in a straight line... Even a 600 will be well beyond their capabilities, so what does it matter what the bike can do? Either way it'll take thousands of miles and lots of hours practice before you start to gain the skills.

Buy whatever you fancy imho, as you'll enjoy it more.

Funnily enough I’m thinking this way. Mod2 on Thursday, and I’m swaying towards the above mentioned CB1000R. I love the big nakeds, with a fat rear tyre, something I can learn and grow and constantly advance my skills on.
I could be way off and talking ste, but I guess I’ll find out soon enough. I’d rather have the bike I want in the garage making me want to go ride, rather than riding whatever I bought to get good enough to buy the bike I want. I dunno..ignore me hah.

[Rod200SX]

raining_sulphur said:

Krikkit said:

I don't really understand that argument - no newbie is going to jump straight from DAS onto a litre bike and have the skills to ride it really quickly, except scaring the crap out of themselves in a straight line... Even a 600 will be well beyond their capabilities, so what does it matter what the bike can do? Either way it'll take thousands of miles and lots of hours practice before you start to gain the skills.

Buy whatever you fancy imho, as you'll enjoy it more.

Funnily enough I’m thinking this way. Mod2 on Thursday, and I’m swaying towards the above mentioned CB1000R. I love the big nakeds, with a fat rear tyre, something I can learn and grow and constantly advance my skills on.
I could be way off and talking ste, but I guess I’ll find out soon enough. I’d rather have the bike I want in the garage making me want to go ride, rather than riding whatever I bought to get good enough to buy the bike I want. I dunno..ignore me hah.

Good luck with your Mod2!

I'm awaiting a space to open to get my DAS done and going through several different options, not really going to know until I get to ride anything I guess but I'm leaning towards a 'safe' midrange bike. MT07, CBR/CB650R etc. Enough grunt for most situations but not silly? I'd like to think I have the self restraint on a fast litre bike but not sure!

Part of the problem I'm having is, there's far too many bloody bikes it's great to have choice but there's so many different variants of bikes now!

[raining_sulphur]

Rod200SX said:

raining_sulphur said:

Krikkit said:

I don't really understand that argument - no newbie is going to jump straight from DAS onto a litre bike and have the skills to ride it really quickly, except scaring the crap out of themselves in a straight line... Even a 600 will be well beyond their capabilities, so what does it matter what the bike can do? Either way it'll take thousands of miles and lots of hours practice before you start to gain the skills.

Buy whatever you fancy imho, as you'll enjoy it more.

Funnily enough I’m thinking this way. Mod2 on Thursday, and I’m swaying towards the above mentioned CB1000R. I love the big nakeds, with a fat rear tyre, something I can learn and grow and constantly advance my skills on.
I could be way off and talking ste, but I guess I’ll find out soon enough. I’d rather have the bike I want in the garage making me want to go ride, rather than riding whatever I bought to get good enough to buy the bike I want. I dunno..ignore me hah.

Good luck with your Mod2!

I'm awaiting a space to open to get my DAS done and going through several different options, not really going to know until I get to ride anything I guess but I'm leaning towards a 'safe' midrange bike. MT07, CBR/CB650R etc. Enough grunt for most situations but not silly? I'd like to think I have the self restraint on a fast litre bike but not sure!

Part of the problem I'm having is, there's far too many bloody bikes it's great to have choice but there's so many different variants of bikes now!

Thanks! Best of luck with the DAS. Started mine in November, finally managed to get mod1 last week, and as mentioned above mod2 on Thursday. Keep checking in with your riding school, mine told me that DVSA keep releasing more and more test slots to deal with the backlogs.
I’m thinking the same regarding self restraint. Like you, I won’t be certain until I can test ride quite a few. I have a list I’ll have to work my way through before I actually buy.

[Iminquarantine]

Rod200SX said:

Good luck with your Mod2!

I'm awaiting a space to open to get my DAS done and going through several different options, not really going to know until I get to ride anything I guess but I'm leaning towards a 'safe' midrange bike. MT07, CBR/CB650R etc. Enough grunt for most situations but not silly? I'd like to think I have the self restraint on a fast litre bike but not sure!

Part of the problem I'm having is, there's far too many bloody bikes it's great to have choice but there's so many different variants of bikes now!

Bikes have poor aerodynamics. They accelerate fast, but as speed increases, they become anaemic and tiring to ride.... unless you have a bigger engine. Most of the engine power goes to pushing you through the air, not along the ground. Engine power requirements to overcome aerodynamic drag increase with the third power of speed. A 26% increase in speed requires double the engine power.

Cars have good aerodynamics and use relatively less engine power to travel at speed. A MT07 is fast to accelerate, like all full licence bikes, but actually a 2-litre turbo diesel car would have a higher top speed.

When you get your licence, you are able to use the acceleration of a 650-700cc bike immediately and you can drag almost every 4-wheel vehicle on the road off. But it takes a while before you realise smaller engine bikes are tiring to tour on where you want to spend hours at open road-motorway speeds. Even though a 650-700 will very easily do motorway speeds, they do it at higher revs which make it more tiring.

That's why I say just stop flaffing and buy a 800-1200cc bike and be done with it. The throttle goes both ways. Most single vehicle bike accidents are from failing to negotiate a bend. That can happen on any bike. There are a very small number of accidents which are easier to have on a more powerful bike, such as a high side where you lose traction on the rear wheel (often by too much power), then regain it with the bike out of alignment.

Edited by Iminquarantine on Tuesday 27th April 09:57

[Iamnotkloot]

Iminquarantine said:

Bikes have poor aerodynamics. They accelerate fast, but as speed increases, they become anaemic and tiring to ride.... unless you have a bigger engine. Most of the engine power goes to pushing you through the air, not along the ground. Engine power requirements to overcome aerodynamic drag increase with the third power of speed. A 26% increase in speed requires double the engine power.

Cars have good aerodynamics and use relatively less engine power to travel at speed. A MT07 is fast to accelerate, like all full licence bikes, but actually a 2-litre turbo diesel car would have a higher top speed.

When you get your licence, you are able to use the acceleration of a 650-700cc bike immediately and you can drag almost every 4-wheel vehicle on the road off. But it takes a while before you realise smaller engine bikes are tiring to tour on where you want to spend hours at open road-motorway speeds. Even though a 650-700 will very easily do motorway speeds, they do it at higher revs which make it more tiring.

That's why I say just stop flaffing and buy a 800-1200cc bike and be done with it. The throttle goes both ways. Most single vehicle bike accidents are from failing to negotiate a bend. That can happen on any bike. There are a very small number of accidents which are easier to have on a more powerful bike, such as a high side where you lose traction on the rear wheel (often by too much power), then regain it with the bike out of alignment.

Edited by Iminquarantine on Tuesday 27th April 09:57

I don't disagree with anything you say above but I'm looking forward to moving up a 'power escalator' and trying different bikes. Who knows, I might prefer riding a CB300R to a litre bike? The fun will be in the trying them out and I worry if I start big, I won't want to try any of the 'lesser' bikes. I don't plan on doing too much touring either, more scratching around good A and B roads. As for what I'm considering, the short list is pretty huge - in price order below (2nd hand):

HONDA CB300R
KAWASAKI NINJA 400
HONDA CB500F
SUZUKI SV650
KAWASAKI Z650
KAWASAKI NINJA 650
HONDA CB650R
YAMAHA XSR700
YAMAHA MT-07
FANTIC CABALLERO 500 SCRAMBLER
TRIUMPH STREET TRIPLE S
TRIUMPH TRIDENT
TRIUMPH STREET TWIN
DUCATI MONSTER 797
TRIUMPH STREET SCRAMBLER
DUCATI SUPERSPORT S
TRIUMPH SPEED TWIN
CCM SPITFIRE
APRILIA RS660

Anyway MOD1 and 2 should (fingers crossed) be done in the next 3 weeks.....

[snagzie]

RS660 2nd hand? Good luck pal (maybe an ex demo soon), they came out this year.

Tidy bikes tough, a lot of money for a first bike.

Honestly guys just go with whatever you want, they'll all terrify you at first anyway.

[ChocolateFrog]

vindaloo79 said:

Iminquarantine said:

A lot of people buy a 500-650cc bike as their first full licence bike, then sell it after awhile. Myself included.

Just save yourself the trouble and buy a 800-1200cc from the off.

Isn’t the progressive approach considerably safer when starting out ?

CG125 to Bandit 1200

That first ride was a proper giggle. The only other bike I'd ridden at the time was a CB500 (test bike loaner). The torque felt hilarious, the guy who sold it to me looked genuinely concerned , didn't regret it for a second.

Edited by ChocolateFrog on Tuesday 27th April 11:35

[Rubins4]

Got through MOD 1 & 2 last week and now plodding about on a 650 Transalp.

Nearly missed my first corner yesterday.

Commuted this morning, still a bit of frost about. Fingers absolutely FREEZING (despite fancy winter gloves), promptly dropped bike keys down a drain in the road FFS/FML. Probably time to fit those heated grips in time for summer.

Ordered some ear plugs as the wind noise is deafening.

Need to sort some sort of tinting solution as I’m into the sun at the start and finish of each day, probably a new helmet with a peak and visit options.

[Rod200SX]

Iamnotkloot said:

Iminquarantine said:

Bikes have poor aerodynamics. They accelerate fast, but as speed increases, they become anaemic and tiring to ride.... unless you have a bigger engine. Most of the engine power goes to pushing you through the air, not along the ground. Engine power requirements to overcome aerodynamic drag increase with the third power of speed. A 26% increase in speed requires double the engine power.

Cars have good aerodynamics and use relatively less engine power to travel at speed. A MT07 is fast to accelerate, like all full licence bikes, but actually a 2-litre turbo diesel car would have a higher top speed.

When you get your licence, you are able to use the acceleration of a 650-700cc bike immediately and you can drag almost every 4-wheel vehicle on the road off. But it takes a while before you realise smaller engine bikes are tiring to tour on where you want to spend hours at open road-motorway speeds. Even though a 650-700 will very easily do motorway speeds, they do it at higher revs which make it more tiring.

That's why I say just stop flaffing and buy a 800-1200cc bike and be done with it. The throttle goes both ways. Most single vehicle bike accidents are from failing to negotiate a bend. That can happen on any bike. There are a very small number of accidents which are easier to have on a more powerful bike, such as a high side where you lose traction on the rear wheel (often by too much power), then regain it with the bike out of alignment.

Edited by Iminquarantine on Tuesday 27th April 09:57

I don't disagree with anything you say above but I'm looking forward to moving up a 'power escalator' and trying different bikes. Who knows, I might prefer riding a CB300R to a litre bike? The fun will be in the trying them out and I worry if I start big, I won't want to try any of the 'lesser' bikes. I don't plan on doing too much touring either, more scratching around good A and B roads. As for what I'm considering, the short list is pretty huge - in price order below (2nd hand):

HONDA CB300R
KAWASAKI NINJA 400
HONDA CB500F
SUZUKI SV650
KAWASAKI Z650
KAWASAKI NINJA 650
HONDA CB650R
YAMAHA XSR700
YAMAHA MT-07
FANTIC CABALLERO 500 SCRAMBLER
TRIUMPH STREET TRIPLE S
TRIUMPH TRIDENT
TRIUMPH STREET TWIN
DUCATI MONSTER 797
TRIUMPH STREET SCRAMBLER
DUCATI SUPERSPORT S
TRIUMPH SPEED TWIN
CCM SPITFIRE
APRILIA RS660

Anyway MOD1 and 2 should (fingers crossed) be done in the next 3 weeks.....

Looks like we have fairly similar tastes. Part of me thinks I'd like something that I'd be going up and down the gears a good bit, Honda CB/CBR650R mainly. But then the rest of me says "Just get an R1 and don't be a dick".

Most annoying thing for me is to get a shot of most bikes I'm interested in, I'll be needing to travel quite a bit down south. Whatever happens it's going to be fun deciding what route we want to go down!

[Iminquarantine]

Rubins4 said:

Got through MOD 1 & 2 last week and now plodding about on a 650 Transalp.

Nearly missed my first corner yesterday.

Commuted this morning, still a bit of frost about. Fingers absolutely FREEZING (despite fancy winter gloves), promptly dropped bike keys down a drain in the road FFS/FML. Probably time to fit those heated grips in time for summer.

Ordered some ear plugs as the wind noise is deafening.

Need to sort some sort of tinting solution as I’m into the sun at the start and finish of each day, probably a new helmet with a peak and visit options.

Transalps are great bikes (even if they don't meet my 800-1200cc idea which I wrote above), I test rode one a few years back. 40mph straight over speed humps, no problem.

Enjoy! Heated grips make a big difference to comfort, highly recommended, if no mandatory. I try to avoid doing anything near drains for the reason you found out

If you ever think you will miss a corner... lean it more. You bike will almost always make it. Remember when it comes to corners... 1. slow is smooth and smooth is fast; 2. Slow in, fast out.

[hiccy18]

Rubins4 said:

Got through MOD 1 & 2 last week and now plodding about on a 650 Transalp.

Gratz!

Rubins4 said:

Need to sort some sort of tinting solution as I’m into the sun at the start and finish of each day, probably a new helmet with a peak and visit options.

I used to be in exactly the same situation, a helmet with a flip down sun visor is a great solution; plenty of manufacturers do them nowadays, I recently acquired an AGV K3SV as a backup/commuting lid.

[Scobblelotcher]

I personally having never ridden before doing an intensive course got on a GSX-R600 which I think in many ways was ideal. The bike is very light and the engine is fairly gutless below 8k (redlines at about 16.5k) so you could ride it without fully accessing its performance unless you specifically wanted too. I personally spent months going a bit faster until I felt I'd developed enough talent to use a lot more of it's performance.

A litre (1000cc+) bike (excluding Harley's and the like) in comparison will usually have a lot more usable power everywhere across the rev range.

I personally wouldn't recommend going straight on a 1000cc bike, it's just too easy to get out of shape especially when you won't have the throttle control, understanding of all of the risks you'll encounter and may have a bad day out even on a modern one with sophisticated electronics and bike accidents are not like car accidents.

[Krikkit]

hiccy18 said:

Rubins4 said:

Need to sort some sort of tinting solution as I’m into the sun at the start and finish of each day, probably a new helmet with a peak and visit options.

I used to be in exactly the same situation, a helmet with a flip down sun visor is a great solution; plenty of manufacturers do them nowadays, I recently acquired an AGV K3SV as a backup/commuting lid.

I've got a Bell with it and it's fantastic. Also worth investing in a lid with a pinlock visor!

Very brave going out in the cold/frost. Congrats Rubin

[hiccy18]

If you're coming off DAS and buying your first bike bear in mind what we're comparing is the equivalent of jumping in an M140i as you first car versus a Lambo. There's lots to be said in favour of middleweight bikes: even the most basic offer a level of performance far above most other vehicles, on fun roads they can maintain a good pace, enough to keep up with the larger bikes, and full throttle can be used more often without having to worry so much about your licence; running costs are usually markedly lower than litre bikes (fuel, tax, insurance, tyres, servicing) and controls are often more user friendly than the sharper responses on larger bikes making them more forgiving of hamfisted inputs.

Where middleweight bikes often fall down is in the use of cheap suspension and brakes to create a bigger price gap between themselves and the larger bikes; the SV650, Ninja 650 and MT07 are good examples of this. I love my SV650 but the brakes are dull, the suspension does a good impression of a pogostick at times, and it's never plush. I suspect some of the better equipped options such as Street Trip, RS660, Monster could keep a lot of riders satisfied for a lot longer because of this, certainly returning ones like myself.

After nearly three years I am changing bike, and likely to something a lot larger because two chubbies touring is not happening on a 650! In an ideal world I'd be keeping the SV too as I'm quite attached to it: it's not "fast", it's certainly not flash, but it's enough to take me to my happy place and make me forget my worries, which is what biking is all about. Sharing that with her majesty will hopefully be bliss.

[anonymous-user]

Krikkit said:

I've got a Bell with it and it's fantastic. Also worth investing in a lid with a pinlock visor!

Very brave going out in the cold/frost. Congrats Rubin

Can't agree enough about the pinlock!! Its an absolute revelation, I would never be without one now

[Scobblelotcher]

hucumber said:

Krikkit said:

I've got a Bell with it and it's fantastic. Also worth investing in a lid with a pinlock visor!

Very brave going out in the cold/frost. Congrats Rubin

Can't agree enough about the pinlock!! Its an absolute revelation, I would never be without one now

I've got one of these with a pin-lock and bluetooth because I'm a big tart and so I can listen to my favourite tunes! (wet, wet, wet/bros/spice girls etc!)

https://www.ruroc.com/en_row/atlas-2-raw-carbon.ht...

[Tonberry]

Power matters less than riding position when it comes to first bikes.

Clip ons take some getting used to as the position is unnatural. If you struggle with cornering or slow speed riding, find a bike with a handle bar.

This means a naked bike or a touring bike usually.

Engine cc's and bhp aren't that relevant unless you lack self control. That said, using all of the throttle on a smaller capacity bike can be more rewarding than not being willing / able to use full throttle on a larger capacity bike.

[Rubins4]

Thanks for the replies chaps, and the advice.

Hiccy, I put that into the MOT database, says it’s been off the road for years.

Pin lock - yes, thanks for the reminder will ensure it’s there.

Audio - I definitely want some of this, but don’t understand, how the hell do you hear anything over the wind noise, even with ear plugs ??