MotoGP - Sachsenring
Discussion
Freakuk said:
Acosta unless something goes wrong give him the trophy now, he's a skinny young kid destined for stardom, I just hope he suits the big bikes assuming he can he's the next Rossi, Marquez in the making.
Yeah, after the last race being a slipstream lottery from 1st to 15th it was good to see him up there again, once he got towards the front I think he was top 5 or top 3 for the whole race.Freakuk said:
Vinales - Nothing positive to say here, he's never been consistent ever, and starting and finishing at the back... I'd be ripping his contract up now, Yamaha will end up in the same boat as Honda if they don't act quickly.
I know we give out about the Doc, but Vinales he's not even old. I know he's become a Dad recently but lets be honest he was never Mr. Consistent. I Feel worse for Frankie, though I suppose he has last years performances in his pocket to secure a move for next season. Freakuk said:
Acosta unless something goes wrong give him the trophy now, he's a skinny young kid destined for stardom, I just hope he suits the big bikes assuming he can he's the next Rossi, Marquez in the making.
Great ride from MM today, got to the front within a lap, for a while I thought the Aprilia might hang with him, clearly being a left handed track and unbeaten played into his hands, and the quick bit of rain he gambled and gapped the rest, great to give him the confidence and the boot, but Assen in 5 days... Hmmm
Oliveira - what a race from him, the only one who could have taken it to MM... so close, but used his head to get 20 points, rides like that can win championships.
Vinales - Nothing positive to say here, he's never been consistent ever, and starting and finishing at the back... I'd be ripping his contract up now, Yamaha will end up in the same boat as Honda if they don't act quickly.
Oliviera is very much like mir last season, constantly picking up decent points.Great ride from MM today, got to the front within a lap, for a while I thought the Aprilia might hang with him, clearly being a left handed track and unbeaten played into his hands, and the quick bit of rain he gambled and gapped the rest, great to give him the confidence and the boot, but Assen in 5 days... Hmmm
Oliveira - what a race from him, the only one who could have taken it to MM... so close, but used his head to get 20 points, rides like that can win championships.
Vinales - Nothing positive to say here, he's never been consistent ever, and starting and finishing at the back... I'd be ripping his contract up now, Yamaha will end up in the same boat as Honda if they don't act quickly.
Drawweight said:
Much as it’s great to see MM winning again I hope he’s not able to be the dominant force that he has been in the past.
It was good to turn on the TV in 2020 and settle down to watch with honestly not having a clue who was going to win.
I'd hope he returns to full strength/capability. It would be a shame if this is long term as he's the most talented rider. If he becomes dominant again then that's on the other riders.It was good to turn on the TV in 2020 and settle down to watch with honestly not having a clue who was going to win.
It was a great result. I was chuffed to see him on top as I've been waiting/hoping for him to make a comeback for a while now.
Assen will be different as he suffers with change of direction and that Honda is too savage
There’s some rubbish written on these discussions but the past couple of weeks have been brilliant. Stuff about Marquez head gone, time to retire, just getting in the way, and then he goes and wins.
Luke Brown66 once again wins the award for worst post of the week. Normally it’s like he hasn’t ever watched a race, but this week it’s for typing out the BT Sport discussion and claiming it as his own.
If Marquez was going to win a race this year this was it. It’s masked the probables the Honda is having and the lack of time Marquez has had on it to find a good set up, but it’s a very positive start. The fact he’s back winning may well mess with a few heads too.
Quartararo had a very good race but that seems to have largely gone unnoticed. Another podium, increased his lead in the Championship to nearly a race win. The only Yamaha anywhere near the sharp end.
The whole Morbidli should get the factory ride over Vinales seems a bit bizarre when you look at the table. Not that either really deserve it. Rossi should call time now.
Luke Brown66 once again wins the award for worst post of the week. Normally it’s like he hasn’t ever watched a race, but this week it’s for typing out the BT Sport discussion and claiming it as his own.
If Marquez was going to win a race this year this was it. It’s masked the probables the Honda is having and the lack of time Marquez has had on it to find a good set up, but it’s a very positive start. The fact he’s back winning may well mess with a few heads too.
Quartararo had a very good race but that seems to have largely gone unnoticed. Another podium, increased his lead in the Championship to nearly a race win. The only Yamaha anywhere near the sharp end.
The whole Morbidli should get the factory ride over Vinales seems a bit bizarre when you look at the table. Not that either really deserve it. Rossi should call time now.
unident said:
If Marquez was going to win a race this year this was it. It’s masked the probables the Honda is having and the lack of time Marquez has had on it to find a good set up, but it’s a very positive start. The fact he’s back winning may well mess with a few heads too.
exactly that, the whole paddock were probably thinking that if he was going to win anywhere it would be there BUT secretly hoped he wouldn't have the stamina to last the whole distance... now he has, it will be worrying them for the rest of the season - after all he's only 100 points behind FQ 
peterg1955 said:
unident said:
If Marquez was going to win a race this year this was it. It’s masked the probables the Honda is having and the lack of time Marquez has had on it to find a good set up, but it’s a very positive start. The fact he’s back winning may well mess with a few heads too.
exactly that, the whole paddock were probably thinking that if he was going to win anywhere it would be there BUT secretly hoped he wouldn't have the stamina to last the whole distance... now he has, it will be worrying them for the rest of the season - after all he's only 100 points behind FQ Good piece by Matt Oxley here
93 talking to Doohan about injury and why 46
Isn’t just getting old
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorc...
93 talking to Doohan about injury and why 46
Isn’t just getting old
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorc...
Vinales not happy about things either….reading between the lines ??
https://twitter.com/btsportmotogp/status/140692451...
https://twitter.com/btsportmotogp/status/140692451...
epom said:
Vinales not happy about things either….reading between the lines ??
https://twitter.com/btsportmotogp/status/140692451...
Perhaps he needs to do a Zarco and leave and hopefully pick up a seat with another team .https://twitter.com/btsportmotogp/status/140692451...
It’s time MV moved on. Judging by the comments on Twitter it looks like the relationship with Yamaha is done. Whatever the actual problem is it ain’t going to get sorted by looks of it. He needs to take his whining elsewhere if he can ,and it will be last chance saloon to consistently prove himself. There’s no denying he’s quick but performances like Sunday are just an insult to be honest.
epom said:
Vinales not happy about things either….reading between the lines ??
https://twitter.com/btsportmotogp/status/140692451...
There's just one problem...Fabio Quatararo.https://twitter.com/btsportmotogp/status/140692451...
Maybe what we are seeing with Fabio is akin to Marc on the Honda. It's not a great bike but those two have the ability to make it work.
Makes me feel sorry for VR too, he's clearly another rider that needs everything to be just right for him but everything's going in a different direction. I'd love to see him on a Suzuki. You never really hear their riders complain about the bike.
Rossi finished less than 2.5 seconds ahead of Vinales, Morbidelli less than 0.5 seconds ahead (yes, I know older bike, but did that finish that far down very often last year?) It’s easy to sit and say “Vinales is no good sack him”, but we don’t know the full story. Both MV and VR have complained about lack of rear grip for a long time. Maybe, just maybe the bike isn’t up to it. Different riders like different feel and set up, but I’m damn sure that FQ didn’t enjoy finishing a distant 3rd in the race, no matter how good a salvage job it was.
What remains funny on here is the speed that people dismiss riders in general. Miller / Bagnaia were being written off after two races, both factory KTM riders were being slated, Marquez should retire and loads of stuff about making up seats and teams for next year.
I’m not convinced Vinales has what it takes to win the championship, he needs precision like Lorenzo, but doesn’t seem to be able to develop the bike to suit his style. FQ seems to be able to ride through problems, but even that can only take you so far.
What remains funny on here is the speed that people dismiss riders in general. Miller / Bagnaia were being written off after two races, both factory KTM riders were being slated, Marquez should retire and loads of stuff about making up seats and teams for next year.
I’m not convinced Vinales has what it takes to win the championship, he needs precision like Lorenzo, but doesn’t seem to be able to develop the bike to suit his style. FQ seems to be able to ride through problems, but even that can only take you so far.
unident said:
Rossi finished less than 2.5 seconds ahead of Vinales, Morbidelli less than 0.5 seconds ahead (yes, I know older bike, but did that finish that far down very often last year?) It’s easy to sit and say “Vinales is no good sack him”, but we don’t know the full story. Both MV and VR have complained about lack of rear grip for a long time. Maybe, just maybe the bike isn’t up to it. Different riders like different feel and set up, but I’m damn sure that FQ didn’t enjoy finishing a distant 3rd in the race, no matter how good a salvage job it was.
What remains funny on here is the speed that people dismiss riders in general. Miller / Bagnaia were being written off after two races, both factory KTM riders were being slated, Marquez should retire and loads of stuff about making up seats and teams for next year.
I’m not convinced Vinales has what it takes to win the championship, he needs precision like Lorenzo, but doesn’t seem to be able to develop the bike to suit his style. FQ seems to be able to ride through problems, but even that can only take you so far.
93 did alright.What remains funny on here is the speed that people dismiss riders in general. Miller / Bagnaia were being written off after two races, both factory KTM riders were being slated, Marquez should retire and loads of stuff about making up seats and teams for next year.
I’m not convinced Vinales has what it takes to win the championship, he needs precision like Lorenzo, but doesn’t seem to be able to develop the bike to suit his style. FQ seems to be able to ride through problems, but even that can only take you so far.
Was wondering if the justification for keeping Rossi circulating on a factory bike was for feedback and dev but from that if it is, it isn't working.
What's going with the Yamaha does seem like a very similar situation to Honda, where the bike only has one rider that can make it really work.. Genuine question, here, so don't shoot me down, but is this a sign of the times now that bike setup/development is dictated more by data rather than rider feedback.?
I think it will be interesting to see if Petronas keep Yamaha next year. or whether they make the switch to Suzuki.?
I still think that the bike to have in the next couple of years will be the KTM, which seems to be capable of suiting multiple riding styles, has decent power and just needs to iron out the bugs it has had making the asymmetric tyre work, but that already seems like it may have been resolved with the latest frame updates..
I think it will be interesting to see if Petronas keep Yamaha next year. or whether they make the switch to Suzuki.?
I still think that the bike to have in the next couple of years will be the KTM, which seems to be capable of suiting multiple riding styles, has decent power and just needs to iron out the bugs it has had making the asymmetric tyre work, but that already seems like it may have been resolved with the latest frame updates..
The Matt Oxley article sums it up, I think it's tyres, look back years and years when there wasn't a single supplier, Michelin would be making tyres the day before the race for the top riders and shipping them to the circuit ahead of the race. As soon as a single manufacturer was announced everything was chucked into the air.
Ducati and Suzuki were first to jump ship at a cost to them by adopting Bridgestone, but in 2007 when a certain Casey Stoner won the championship the tables started to turn, Pedrosa and Rossi demanded Bridgestones and then everyone went, Ducati and to a lesser extent had then made a jump because all of that tyre development was done to suit their bikes.
Nowadays Michelin just turn up with some rubber and some bikes work, some don't, some riders love them, some don't. KTM had a torrid time in the earlier races, but have a new frame which I would imagine is to maximise the tyre characteristics and feedback, bigger teams outsource frames etc so it takes longer.
I think Fabio is another Marc and has managed to get the best out of the package and it's highlighted the shortcomings of the Yamaha on Michelins.
Ducati and Suzuki were first to jump ship at a cost to them by adopting Bridgestone, but in 2007 when a certain Casey Stoner won the championship the tables started to turn, Pedrosa and Rossi demanded Bridgestones and then everyone went, Ducati and to a lesser extent had then made a jump because all of that tyre development was done to suit their bikes.
Nowadays Michelin just turn up with some rubber and some bikes work, some don't, some riders love them, some don't. KTM had a torrid time in the earlier races, but have a new frame which I would imagine is to maximise the tyre characteristics and feedback, bigger teams outsource frames etc so it takes longer.
I think Fabio is another Marc and has managed to get the best out of the package and it's highlighted the shortcomings of the Yamaha on Michelins.
The problem with that argument is that it’s been single tyre for over a decade and Michelin for 5 years. Few riders on the grid will ever have ridden anything other than Michelin’s on a MotoGP bike, let alone be engaged in a “tyre war”
Using KTM as an example of a team that’s got it right is a bit much given where they were for the start of the season. Tech3 are really struggling too, so there’s an argument that it’s just the riders who are dragging the factory team though.
The main thing is some tracks suit some bikes and some riders more than others. Making judgments off one or two races isn’t a great idea. Looking at it over half a season will give you a much clearer understanding and a way of balancing the variables.
Using KTM as an example of a team that’s got it right is a bit much given where they were for the start of the season. Tech3 are really struggling too, so there’s an argument that it’s just the riders who are dragging the factory team though.
The main thing is some tracks suit some bikes and some riders more than others. Making judgments off one or two races isn’t a great idea. Looking at it over half a season will give you a much clearer understanding and a way of balancing the variables.
Superhoop said:
Genuine question, here, so don't shoot me down, but is this a sign of the times now that bike setup/development is dictated more by data rather than rider feedback.?
That's an incredibly tough balance! Data shows hard facts, but also those facts are influenced by the rider and what their feeling is - and this is impossible to log, no amount of channels can display that on a graph.
Also, the margins are so close, that data achieved riding at anything other than flat out can become at best, meaningless, and worse - misleading. It's the balance of rider vs data that is the key component in chassis set up.
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