Moto GP Thread 2023
Discussion
JRC1 said:
Yazza54 said:
I have a feeling things could turn round quite quickly for Honda now, but regardless Marc made the right choice.
I think Marini may have played a blinder for his career.
Agree with this. Already talk of Marc even possibly returning in '25 if the bike is improved next year, would be cool to see.I think Marini may have played a blinder for his career.
Marini was great at the test and the feedback from Mir was positive too (I think it's the first bit of positive feedback Mir has given all year). Puig needs to go and good riddance quite frankly. Couldn't believe his comments when asked about Marini, he was like yeah well we've lost Marc and we didn't really have many options, so we went with Luca. Way to welome a guy to your team.
Yazza54 said:
Agree, thought that was piss poor too when I read it.
I've seen a lot of journos over the year commenting on how much more approachable, expansive and human Dani Pedrosa became once he dropped Puig as his manager. He doesn't appear to be a 'people person' - which you can only get away with if you deliver results. He hasn't - Marc has - and no Marc means no results as we now see. How Jarvis gets away with it at Yamaha, who for years couldn't get a title sponsor and the bike keeps getting worse, baffles me. Still, a fit Rins and Quatararo win races. No excuses next season compared to having a lacklustre Morbidelli on it.
Agree with all the sentiment posted, Brivio has 6 riders championships and numerous manufacturer/team championships on his resume.
He has the apparent ability to work alongside and get the best from the relationships with the Japanese, a skillset that's needed at Honda. Puig has been covered by Marc's performances as highlighted and that isn't going to cut it going forward.
I don't believe Yamaha will change engine configuration before the next round of Tech Regulations are agreed and only then if they're fundamentally convinced they can't run an IL4 and get the performance. Currently, the next step in their engine development is the first full Marmarini (ex-Ferrari) engine at Sepang. As he has a multi year deal, perhaps he's already working on V config engine, however I suspect he's solely focussed on the IL4 currently.
Honda had a radically different bike at Valencia and Mir was the most enthusiastic and bullish about its step in performance that he has been since he threw a leg over it. Given Marini was within 7/10ths of the quickest lap and he's 3 foot taller than Marquez, so the bike didn't fit him easily shows they've made a lot of changes and did it in time for Valencia to get it to fit so he could really get some decent testing in. I think this shows some intent and impetus which seems to have been lacking.
Honda continue to struggle with rear grip, acceleration, electronics and chassis overall. The engine is also now not a leading power house and worse pushing more aero. They have a lot to do. which I think they'll overcome quicker than Yamaha. Quateraro's development feedback is summarised as. .... I just need more power. I'm no MotoGP rider, somehow this doesn't seem to cut it for me as they're overtaking Honda's at Losail....
However, as we all know, a more powerful engine gives you more spin and wheelie issues, dial those out and then you have other issues .... I expect some serious Magnetti Marelli geniuses to be hired under Brivio to get Honda's electronics capability up to speed.
For Marini and Mir it could be manner from heaven as Brivio and Kawuichi build 'package' bikes, which are good to great at everything, not outstanding at anything, rider friendly etc ....
He has the apparent ability to work alongside and get the best from the relationships with the Japanese, a skillset that's needed at Honda. Puig has been covered by Marc's performances as highlighted and that isn't going to cut it going forward.
I don't believe Yamaha will change engine configuration before the next round of Tech Regulations are agreed and only then if they're fundamentally convinced they can't run an IL4 and get the performance. Currently, the next step in their engine development is the first full Marmarini (ex-Ferrari) engine at Sepang. As he has a multi year deal, perhaps he's already working on V config engine, however I suspect he's solely focussed on the IL4 currently.
Honda had a radically different bike at Valencia and Mir was the most enthusiastic and bullish about its step in performance that he has been since he threw a leg over it. Given Marini was within 7/10ths of the quickest lap and he's 3 foot taller than Marquez, so the bike didn't fit him easily shows they've made a lot of changes and did it in time for Valencia to get it to fit so he could really get some decent testing in. I think this shows some intent and impetus which seems to have been lacking.
Honda continue to struggle with rear grip, acceleration, electronics and chassis overall. The engine is also now not a leading power house and worse pushing more aero. They have a lot to do. which I think they'll overcome quicker than Yamaha. Quateraro's development feedback is summarised as. .... I just need more power. I'm no MotoGP rider, somehow this doesn't seem to cut it for me as they're overtaking Honda's at Losail....
However, as we all know, a more powerful engine gives you more spin and wheelie issues, dial those out and then you have other issues .... I expect some serious Magnetti Marelli geniuses to be hired under Brivio to get Honda's electronics capability up to speed.
For Marini and Mir it could be manner from heaven as Brivio and Kawuichi build 'package' bikes, which are good to great at everything, not outstanding at anything, rider friendly etc ....
Puig is a very odd one to understand. On the one hand he was pretty much the man who pushed and discovered guys like Pedrosa, Elias and Stoner, pushed really hard for several Brits to race in Spain like Chaz and was a real driver of young talent in Spain, he knew that to make it work, you had to be there, not in the UK or elsewhere and basically had lots of riders via Telefonica vying over a few rides in GP racing. It did not work for Chaz obviously, though he had a decent career in GP's.
On the other hand he was such a tough guy with Dani and Honda, Even though nicky was world champ, the 07 bike was designed pretty much solely round Dani, Puig seemed like he was running things even then, to the point Nicky was pretty much left alone despite having the number 1 plate, you had the tyre thing too. He was such as strangely tough customer!
On the other hand he was such a tough guy with Dani and Honda, Even though nicky was world champ, the 07 bike was designed pretty much solely round Dani, Puig seemed like he was running things even then, to the point Nicky was pretty much left alone despite having the number 1 plate, you had the tyre thing too. He was such as strangely tough customer!
I think we're overlooking the fact that there will be big bike changes in a year or two, engine cc, aero, launch control, ride height etc all either agreed or being changed. So I'm not sure there's much point in investing millions in a '24 bike for Honda when they have to develop a whole new bike in a year or two.
All manufacturers are in the same boat so I don't see much being spent now under the current regs, that money should be getting diverted into new engine etc. I'm sure Yamaha will look at a V4 if they have to design a new engine for example.
The latest Oxley/Bom podcast going into all of the sponsorship/marketing and how F1 and really paved the way with US owners, Trackhouse could be the spark needed to lift the profile and get more investment.
All manufacturers are in the same boat so I don't see much being spent now under the current regs, that money should be getting diverted into new engine etc. I'm sure Yamaha will look at a V4 if they have to design a new engine for example.
The latest Oxley/Bom podcast going into all of the sponsorship/marketing and how F1 and really paved the way with US owners, Trackhouse could be the spark needed to lift the profile and get more investment.
Freakuk said:
I think we're overlooking the fact that there will be big bike changes in a year or two, engine cc, aero, launch control, ride height etc all either agreed or being changed. So I'm not sure there's much point in investing millions in a '24 bike for Honda when they have to develop a whole new bike in a year or two.
All manufacturers are in the same boat so I don't see much being spent now under the current regs, that money should be getting diverted into new engine etc. I'm sure Yamaha will look at a V4 if they have to design a new engine for example.
The latest Oxley/Bom podcast going into all of the sponsorship/marketing and how F1 and really paved the way with US owners, Trackhouse could be the spark needed to lift the profile and get more investment.
I'd agree on engine configuration and a lot will depend on how far if at all the new regs reduce aero and shape shifter devices etc. On the other hand, there are 3 full seasons of racing to go before the 2027 changes and I don't see Honda sitting around on their hands at the back of the field for 3 years.All manufacturers are in the same boat so I don't see much being spent now under the current regs, that money should be getting diverted into new engine etc. I'm sure Yamaha will look at a V4 if they have to design a new engine for example.
The latest Oxley/Bom podcast going into all of the sponsorship/marketing and how F1 and really paved the way with US owners, Trackhouse could be the spark needed to lift the profile and get more investment.
Plus there's a lot to learn in those 3yrs ahead of any regulation changes which may be applicable for 27 onwards.
poo at Paul's said:
Honda out testing again at Jerez with Bradl running lots of brand new parts back to back. Looks like Honda putting the work in.
Will be pretty funny if the Honda ends up being the best package in 2024!
Don't worry. It won't!Will be pretty funny if the Honda ends up being the best package in 2024!
2025 perhaps once Honda get their weight behind the extra concessions testing.
Zarco said:
Don't worry. It won't!
2025 perhaps once Honda get their weight behind the extra concessions testing.
That's what they said about Brawn when Honda gave up and even took the engine with them...2025 perhaps once Honda get their weight behind the extra concessions testing.
I can see this being a big PR year for Honda. I'd not be surprised if they get a lot of new fans, and Joe P loves an underdog.
poo at Paul's said:
Honda out testing again at Jerez with Bradl running lots of brand new parts back to back. Looks like Honda putting the work in.
Will be pretty funny if the Honda ends up being the best package in 2024!
Would be great Will be pretty funny if the Honda ends up being the best package in 2024!
Marc would go back in 2025 and it would all be forgotten
I don't see a current honda rider that could capitalise even if it did end up being the best bike next year, which it won't.
I think if they can get to a bike that is consistent to ride and handle, does not use it's tyres and can give riders confidence they will consider the year a decent turnaround. It will be interesting to see how they get on without Marquez, and if it is HRC or him that can lead the bike to a better setting
Here’s how it works out.
The Honda is crap. It’s all Marquez’s fault. He can’t develop a bike it’ll take years to fix it, nobody can fix it now.
The Honda is fantastic. What a job Marini has done turning the whole team around single-handedly.
The Honda is middle of the road. Marquez has ruined Honda, they should never let him near their bike again.
The Honda is crap. It’s all Marquez’s fault. He can’t develop a bike it’ll take years to fix it, nobody can fix it now.
The Honda is fantastic. What a job Marini has done turning the whole team around single-handedly.
The Honda is middle of the road. Marquez has ruined Honda, they should never let him near their bike again.
LF5335 said:
Here’s how it works out.
The Honda is crap. It’s all Marquez’s fault. He can’t develop a bike it’ll take years to fix it, nobody can fix it now.
The Honda is fantastic. What a job Marini has done turning the whole team around single-handedly.
The Honda is middle of the road. Marquez has ruined Honda, they should never let him near their bike again.
But Honda's are crap!The Honda is crap. It’s all Marquez’s fault. He can’t develop a bike it’ll take years to fix it, nobody can fix it now.
The Honda is fantastic. What a job Marini has done turning the whole team around single-handedly.
The Honda is middle of the road. Marquez has ruined Honda, they should never let him near their bike again.
I simply think there is an inherent issue with the bike, they lost the plot a few years ago, arguably with the Michelin switch, and obviously Marquez injury state has not allowed the development to be so focused, so the bike has ended up being developed by the riders who do test and Bradl who with the greatest will in the world was no alien.
It still works on occasion, but how much of that is rins and Marquez brilliance and how much is the bike who knows. I still think Rins win at COTA is one of the most staggering wins in recent years up there with Binder in the rain!
It still works on occasion, but how much of that is rins and Marquez brilliance and how much is the bike who knows. I still think Rins win at COTA is one of the most staggering wins in recent years up there with Binder in the rain!
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