Standard of novice bikes at track days
Discussion
Good Morning BB
I was at my first motorbike trakday at Knockhill last night on my cbr500r. It was a first-timers ONLY night. I therefore expected a good few folk on slower bikes like my own. Maybe a few people on non-sports bikes, commuter type, or a few GS. Absolutely everyone was there with supersports/litre bikes. There was two panigales for f sake.
Is this the norm in novice groups or did I just get a weird night?
I very much got passed on the straights and held up in the corrners by those finding their feet still. I had read about this in every R7 review and it was frustrating in real life. On a clear track I had loads of fun.
Will be visiting aprillia this weekend to sit on an rs660. Test ride booked on a zx4rr with the demo days but that might not cut it.
I was at my first motorbike trakday at Knockhill last night on my cbr500r. It was a first-timers ONLY night. I therefore expected a good few folk on slower bikes like my own. Maybe a few people on non-sports bikes, commuter type, or a few GS. Absolutely everyone was there with supersports/litre bikes. There was two panigales for f sake.
Is this the norm in novice groups or did I just get a weird night?
I very much got passed on the straights and held up in the corrners by those finding their feet still. I had read about this in every R7 review and it was frustrating in real life. On a clear track I had loads of fun.
Will be visiting aprillia this weekend to sit on an rs660. Test ride booked on a zx4rr with the demo days but that might not cut it.
I think trackdays have changed drastically over the years from say 2000.
How many sportsbikes do you actually see on the road these days and the age of the average biker has gone up, and as a consequence a lot of people turned to cheap hacks and trackdays to get their kicks. There's usually a mix of bikes on TD's but you don't see many GS's etc probably more super nakeds now.
Plus it's Knockhill, Scotlands only racetrack (unless you count East Fortune) so you have a concentration of people/bikes also.
I used to find each trackday would be somewhat different, some faster than others, so maybe your next one will be the same.
How many sportsbikes do you actually see on the road these days and the age of the average biker has gone up, and as a consequence a lot of people turned to cheap hacks and trackdays to get their kicks. There's usually a mix of bikes on TD's but you don't see many GS's etc probably more super nakeds now.
Plus it's Knockhill, Scotlands only racetrack (unless you count East Fortune) so you have a concentration of people/bikes also.
I used to find each trackday would be somewhat different, some faster than others, so maybe your next one will be the same.
Yep it’s a free for all.
I had some guy buzz me all day with a race bike in novices at brands. He was annoyed that his race truck was too big to get in the tunnel access and they wouldn’t open the other end for him.
I was chatting to another guy who had done 100s of track days and was in the novice. He was fast but at least safe.
Trouble is advanced can be really fast and if inters in full everyone else will book into novice.
It’s unfair if you genuinely have little experience.
I had some guy buzz me all day with a race bike in novices at brands. He was annoyed that his race truck was too big to get in the tunnel access and they wouldn’t open the other end for him.
I was chatting to another guy who had done 100s of track days and was in the novice. He was fast but at least safe.
Trouble is advanced can be really fast and if inters in full everyone else will book into novice.
It’s unfair if you genuinely have little experience.
Yeah I've not done many, but one I did a guy had a liveried race van (think it was just a bit of fun, rather than he actually competed) with two bikes in it (wet and dry bikes).
I don't actually have an issue with it, as would rather ride with people who have some idea what they are doing.
I don't actually have an issue with it, as would rather ride with people who have some idea what they are doing.
This was my experience when I first started a decade ago. I did the novice trackday at Knockhill, lots of track only bikes, tyre warmers etc and the riding was atrocious.. It's actually much better to do a session day up there, nights are always a mixed bag. Because the nights are cheaper, with less time people tend to go out with a point to prove rather than pacing themselves for the day. Plus it tends to attract the a
hole, with the win it or bin it mentality.
The Niall Mackenzie superbike school thing up there would be good for you. Not because you're actually shown anything or get training as such, but a lot more road bikes in the lower group and it tends to be a lot more novice friendly.
hole, with the win it or bin it mentality. The Niall Mackenzie superbike school thing up there would be good for you. Not because you're actually shown anything or get training as such, but a lot more road bikes in the lower group and it tends to be a lot more novice friendly.
Yeah I was shocked at my first track day. Arrived at Cadwell expecting a load of road bikes bimbling around but I would say 20% of the bikes on track had a numberplate on. There were some really fast lads out and then some extremely slow people as well - I was somewhere in the middle. I think they do need to work on categorising them better.
First track day I did in 2015 with a SV650 at Bedford, in novice group there was quite a few people just rocking up on commuter bikes, it was daunting but a fun day. Didn't do any for a while but Mallory I've done a few in the last 2 years and there seems to be a lot of people who actually race in the novice group and people with full setups. Van, gazebo, tyre warmers etc. You'd think the novice group wouldn't be for them but, who knows maybe intermediate was full.
moanthebairns said:
This was my experience when I first started a decade ago. I did the novice trackday at Knockhill, lots of track only bikes, tyre warmers etc and the riding was atrocious.. It's actually much better to do a session day up there, nights are always a mixed bag. Because the nights are cheaper, with less time people tend to go out with a point to prove rather than pacing themselves for the day. Plus it tends to attract the ahole, with the win it or bin it mentality.
The Niall Mackenzie superbike school thing up there would be good for you. Not because you're actually shown anything or get training as such, but a lot more road bikes in the lower group and it tends to be a lot more novice friendly.
It is over £200 a day which is a lot for a day at Knockhill if you're not getting training. I'm too young to have seen him race so it's all about quality of instruction if you're paying that much. East Fortune doesn't do trackdays which is a shame, and it's a fair bit away anyway for us West Coasters. hole, with the win it or bin it mentality. The Niall Mackenzie superbike school thing up there would be good for you. Not because you're actually shown anything or get training as such, but a lot more road bikes in the lower group and it tends to be a lot more novice friendly.
For the number of flights it has, I should see about renting out Prestwick Airport and running my own days there...
Marquezs Stabilisers said:
moanthebairns said:
This was my experience when I first started a decade ago. I did the novice trackday at Knockhill, lots of track only bikes, tyre warmers etc and the riding was atrocious.. It's actually much better to do a session day up there, nights are always a mixed bag. Because the nights are cheaper, with less time people tend to go out with a point to prove rather than pacing themselves for the day. Plus it tends to attract the ahole, with the win it or bin it mentality.
The Niall Mackenzie superbike school thing up there would be good for you. Not because you're actually shown anything or get training as such, but a lot more road bikes in the lower group and it tends to be a lot more novice friendly.
It is over £200 a day which is a lot for a day at Knockhill if you're not getting training. I'm too young to have seen him race so it's all about quality of instruction if you're paying that much. East Fortune doesn't do trackdays which is a shame, and it's a fair bit away anyway for us West Coasters. hole, with the win it or bin it mentality. The Niall Mackenzie superbike school thing up there would be good for you. Not because you're actually shown anything or get training as such, but a lot more road bikes in the lower group and it tends to be a lot more novice friendly.
For the number of flights it has, I should see about renting out Prestwick Airport and running my own days there...
I did a few years ago at Knockhill and back then it was all road bikes.
I suppose you can't blame riders for spending money on the fastest, best machinery they can get. It's the same as any sport, if you can get better more expensive equipment that you think makes a difference then you will.
But it's a bit daunting for someone who only wants a blast round the track occasionally or has to use their road bike because that's all they have. It would be naive to think track day organisers haven't noticed this trend but if they can get enough bookings as it is there's no incentive to change.
Personally my thoughts are if you want to prove how fast you are then get a race licence.
Always a mixed bag in novice groups, and, in truth, all groups really.
But just because someone looks the part, van, superbike, warmers etc, doesn't mean they are of course, some just have the means to do that and they are still new to it.
Can't say I've ever seen any actual racers out in novice groups before though, I've seen guys and girls faster than most in the group but that's just how it is.
No limits have always moved people on if it's that obvious, I remember my first visit to snetterton, it wasn't long after getting into racing and I'd booked inters purely because I didn't have any clue about the track, I did 2 laps and came in and asked to be moved to fast group. I'm sure I annoyed a few people with the difference in pace, but back then I thought that the right thing to do.
Nowadays I book fast regardless if I've been or not.
But just because someone looks the part, van, superbike, warmers etc, doesn't mean they are of course, some just have the means to do that and they are still new to it.
Can't say I've ever seen any actual racers out in novice groups before though, I've seen guys and girls faster than most in the group but that's just how it is.
No limits have always moved people on if it's that obvious, I remember my first visit to snetterton, it wasn't long after getting into racing and I'd booked inters purely because I didn't have any clue about the track, I did 2 laps and came in and asked to be moved to fast group. I'm sure I annoyed a few people with the difference in pace, but back then I thought that the right thing to do.
Nowadays I book fast regardless if I've been or not.
Zarco said:
Rubin215 said:
Didn't Bike magazine do something a few years ago where you had to ride your bike to the track and it had to be fully road legal?
Sounds like a far better idea to me!
All good until you drop it (got the T-shirt). Sounds like a far better idea to me!
My only other day was at Silverstone GP. Fast group was really fast - good to watch. Beginners had plenty of litre sports bikes but I was far from the slowest on my Benelli Tre-k as I seemed to be able to go around corners faster than some of them. Nice wide track so not scary.
I've thought of getting a reasonably priced sports bike and going again but stories of knobs riding too aggresively in the slower group puts me off.
Similar experience here at Knockhill. I did one a few years back on my old 900 Hornet.
I was really nervous as it was my first track day. I got mistakenly put in the experienced group so that made me feel even more nervous. I just started at the back and took it really easy thinking everyone would be awesome.
The reality was most people had all the gear but no idea. I just took it easy and pretty much worked my way through the pack and listened to what the instructors told me to do & did it! (Jamie Whitham & Niall Mackenzie)
Turn in at the first cone, aim for the second on the apex & drift out to the 3rd! The hairpin was hilarious as almost all the riders turned in way too early so you'd sail past them on the exit if you listened to the advice.
The best guy out there had an old gixer and ratty leathers but just hammered it round. Even carried on when it inevitably starting to chuck it down with Knockhill rain!
Ended up having a blast and got some amazing pics from the photographer. Wish I still had my Hornet as I loved that bike!
I was really nervous as it was my first track day. I got mistakenly put in the experienced group so that made me feel even more nervous. I just started at the back and took it really easy thinking everyone would be awesome.
The reality was most people had all the gear but no idea. I just took it easy and pretty much worked my way through the pack and listened to what the instructors told me to do & did it! (Jamie Whitham & Niall Mackenzie)
Turn in at the first cone, aim for the second on the apex & drift out to the 3rd! The hairpin was hilarious as almost all the riders turned in way too early so you'd sail past them on the exit if you listened to the advice.
The best guy out there had an old gixer and ratty leathers but just hammered it round. Even carried on when it inevitably starting to chuck it down with Knockhill rain!
Ended up having a blast and got some amazing pics from the photographer. Wish I still had my Hornet as I loved that bike!
Rubin215 said:
Didn't Bike magazine do something a few years ago where you had to ride your bike to the track and it had to be fully road legal?
Sounds like a far better idea to me!
It doesn't to me Sounds like a far better idea to me!
I don't want to ride a sports bike for an hour + to get to a track
I have a van and can be warm and dry, bring tools / spares etc
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