Bike vs car again...
Discussion
EvoBarry said:
Pugsey said:
Yet again got held up on Sunday by a whole gaggle of bikes on my local 'bikers' road. All the usual gear, latest machinery, knees out - but nowhere near down, heads behind the bubble thinking 130mph is fast. The frightening thing is that not one of them thought there would be anything trying to get past - no life savers, nothing. Got past eventually and got the finger.
130mph on the road IS fast, it matters not what vehicle you are on/in at the time. That you still felt the need to pass them at that speed is more telling of you than them imo. And a car passing at you at those speeds is bound to be unnerving, so I'm not really surprised they took umbrage (altho giving the bird is still not really called for).
Pugsey said:
EvoBarry said:
Pugsey said:
Yet again got held up on Sunday by a whole gaggle of bikes on my local 'bikers' road. All the usual gear, latest machinery, knees out - but nowhere near down, heads behind the bubble thinking 130mph is fast. The frightening thing is that not one of them thought there would be anything trying to get past - no life savers, nothing. Got past eventually and got the finger.
130mph on the road IS fast, it matters not what vehicle you are on/in at the time. That you still felt the need to pass them at that speed is more telling of you than them imo. And a car passing at you at those speeds is bound to be unnerving, so I'm not really surprised they took umbrage (altho giving the bird is still not really called for).
was this road a dual carriageway/m-way or a single track road out of interest. If it's the latter, that's bl00dy quick for a car, esp. a GT3 with stiff suspension that can get thrown around a fair bit. In my old 964RS, I doubt whether I could keep it on the road on a non dual carriageway, etc at that speed.
The bikes should just have moved over, or wound it up a bit more!! To give you the bird is a bit silly. Either put up or shut up - esp. if they were already doing 130ish...
fergus said:
Pugsey said:
EvoBarry said:
Pugsey said:
Yet again got held up on Sunday by a whole gaggle of bikes on my local 'bikers' road. All the usual gear, latest machinery, knees out - but nowhere near down, heads behind the bubble thinking 130mph is fast. The frightening thing is that not one of them thought there would be anything trying to get past - no life savers, nothing. Got past eventually and got the finger.
130mph on the road IS fast, it matters not what vehicle you are on/in at the time. That you still felt the need to pass them at that speed is more telling of you than them imo. And a car passing at you at those speeds is bound to be unnerving, so I'm not really surprised they took umbrage (altho giving the bird is still not really called for).
was this road a dual carriageway/m-way or a single track road out of interest. If it's the latter, that's bl00dy quick for a car, esp. a GT3 with stiff suspension that can get thrown around a fair bit. In my old 964RS, I doubt whether I could keep it on the road on a non dual carriageway, etc at that speed.
The bikes should just have moved over, or wound it up a bit more!! To give you the bird is a bit silly. Either put up or shut up - esp. if they were already doing 130ish...
Well, a B road in the old 964RS would be a bit like decending a steep stone strewn track on a tin tray wouldn't it!
Seriously the revised PASM on the new GT3 handles poor road surfaces better than my 997S ever did - despite it's iron fisted control and greater focus - including in the wet where the MSCs are immense.I imagine bumps, farmers crap at field entrances, white lines, grit, rain etc. etc pose a much greater challenge to bikers too. fergus said:
I see. So it's for them to draw the line is it? If they went past others at 130mph that's OK but you have a go at me for 'feeling the need' to pass them. Thank you, you've just perfectly illustrated some bikers attitude that 'we're entitled to be the fastest thing on the road but no one else can' that I was complaining about. If a quicker rider had arrived on the scene are you saying he would have had to sit behind them at your arbitary 130mph limit? Or is it just quick cars you don't like?
I've written a couple of replies out to the above but have just realised there's no point. I don't know all the facts about the situation you're talking about anyway. 130mph is fast regardless of you being in a car or a bike, to expect to pass anything at those speeds is taking a large risk imo.
And for the record, I enjoy fast cars just as much as fast bikes. I try not to let my ego take over in either case.
Pugsey said:
The frightening thing is that not one of them thought there would be anything trying to get past - no life savers, nothing. Got past eventually and got the finger. Why - because the idiots was blissfully unaware I was there and got a fright
I have to echo this point as well. Sorry to harp on about the Ring....but its a good place to examine how British riders react to vehicles travelling faster than they go, and in particular other cars. I used to suffer badly from this when I rode. In town you would make sure you did all of the life-savers you could.....they did exactly what they said on the tin. However on the country roads, the number of checks decreased as your mindset was one of I'm the fastest thing on the road why bother? It wasn't just me, loads of the riders I took out also did this, and to the extent one was hit by a GT3. Actually to be fair to the GT3 driver he was hit by the biker not looking, as why should he....he was coming into a bend on a bike.....and as we all know bikes are faster than cars so why would one be overtaking him coming into the bend!
I don't think the title to this thread is really the main point now....it really should be Awareness that maybe....just maybe they aren't (correct placing of the apostrophe for Fergus
) the fastest and should give each other the correct respect on the road. The thing that annoys me is that riders feel the need to succumb to peer pressure, I had a triumph rider fall off trying to keep up with me on my R1.....he was going faster than he was capable of. If a car comes up on you that is quicker then let it overtake and if it starts pulling away let it go.
EvoBarry said:
fergus said:
I see. So it's for them to draw the line is it? If they went past others at 130mph that's OK but you have a go at me for 'feeling the need' to pass them. Thank you, you've just perfectly illustrated some bikers attitude that 'we're entitled to be the fastest thing on the road but no one else can' that I was complaining about. If a quicker rider had arrived on the scene are you saying he would have had to sit behind them at your arbitary 130mph limit? Or is it just quick cars you don't like?
I've written a couple of replies out to the above but have just realised there's no point. I don't know all the facts about the situation you're talking about anyway. 130mph is fast regardless of you being in a car or a bike, to expect to pass anything at those speeds is taking a large risk imo.
And for the record, I enjoy fast cars just as much as fast bikes. I try not to let my ego take over in either case.
Sorry, to be a pedant here, but I never said that, Tony (pugsey) did!
AtomicRex said:
Pugsey said:
The frightening thing is that not one of them thought there would be anything trying to get past - no life savers, nothing. Got past eventually and got the finger. Why - because the idiots was blissfully unaware I was there and got a fright
I have to echo this point as well. Sorry to harp on about the Ring....but its a good place to examine how British riders react to vehicles travelling faster than they go, and in particular other cars. I used to suffer badly from this when I rode. In town you would make sure you did all of the life-savers you could.....they did exactly what they said on the tin. However on the country roads, the number of checks decreased as your mindset was one of I'm the fastest thing on the road why bother? It wasn't just me, loads of the riders I took out also did this, and to the extent one was hit by a GT3. Actually to be fair to the GT3 driver he was hit by the biker not looking, as why should he....he was coming into a bend on a bike.....and as we all know bikes are faster than cars so why would one be overtaking him coming into the bend!
I don't think the title to this thread is really the main point now....it really should be Awareness that maybe....just maybe they aren't (correct placing of the apostrophe for Fergus
) the fastest and should give each other the correct respect on the road. The thing that annoys me is that riders feel the need to succumb to peer pressure, I had a triumph rider fall off trying to keep up with me on my R1.....he was going faster than he was capable of. If a car comes up on you that is quicker then let it overtake and if it starts pulling away let it go.
That sums it up very nicely. Would just like to add that if I see a quick bike (and rider!) wanting to get past, either because he can filter past a queue where I can't or he's just travelling faster than me I'll always ease over and give a quick flick of the left hand indicator. Nice to get a nod of thanks - or suprise - too. Don't see many other cars doing that so maybe they're just a touchy about being overtaken as some bikers - see, I can see the other guys point of view!
Edited by Pugsey on Wednesday 21st February 09:28
AtomicRex said:
I used to suffer badly from this when I rode. In town you would make sure you did all of the life-savers you could.....they did exactly what they said on the tin. However on the country roads, the number of checks decreased as your mindset was one of I'm the fastest thing on the road why bother? It wasn't just me, loads of the riders I took out also did this, and to the extent one was hit by a GT3. Actually to be fair to the GT3 driver he was hit by the biker not looking, as why should he....he was coming into a bend on a bike.....and as we all know bikes are faster than cars so why would one be overtaking him coming into the bend!
Maybe it is how you described it but that sounds pretty dangerous of the GT3 rsvmilly said:
AtomicRex said:
I used to suffer badly from this when I rode. In town you would make sure you did all of the life-savers you could.....they did exactly what they said on the tin. However on the country roads, the number of checks decreased as your mindset was one of I'm the fastest thing on the road why bother? It wasn't just me, loads of the riders I took out also did this, and to the extent one was hit by a GT3. Actually to be fair to the GT3 driver he was hit by the biker not looking, as why should he....he was coming into a bend on a bike.....and as we all know bikes are faster than cars so why would one be overtaking him coming into the bend!
Maybe it is how you described it but that sounds pretty dangerous of the GT3 rsvmilly said:
AtomicRex said:
I used to suffer badly from this when I rode. In town you would make sure you did all of the life-savers you could.....they did exactly what they said on the tin. However on the country roads, the number of checks decreased as your mindset was one of I'm the fastest thing on the road why bother? It wasn't just me, loads of the riders I took out also did this, and to the extent one was hit by a GT3. Actually to be fair to the GT3 driver he was hit by the biker not looking, as why should he....he was coming into a bend on a bike.....and as we all know bikes are faster than cars so why would one be overtaking him coming into the bend!
Maybe it is how you described it but that sounds pretty dangerous of the GT3 I have to agree. It sounds like a badly planned overtake was at least as much a cause of this as the rider not looking. Would it have killed the GT3 driver to wait until the unobservant rider woke up? Yes it might have spoiled his lap time, but is that the end of the world?
Edited by Steve_T on Wednesday 21st February 10:01
The corner in question is huge....big right hander before the Karussell...Stickleback I call it! There is a bit of straight having gone through a slight lefthand kink, the GT3 was making a perfect move up on the bike.....but as per normal the bike didnt look in his mirrors and went to take the racing line.....unfortunately there was now a Porsche in the way
I got the whole thing on Video, but was in a difficult position as he was part of my trip out, so had to stand by my customer
I got the whole thing on Video, but was in a difficult position as he was part of my trip out, so had to stand by my customer
Fair enough, but can you explain something for me. What actual rules govern the ring, the rules of the road, or those of a race track? It's a public toll road as far as I'm aware, but I've never been there, so I've no idea how it works in practice. Sounds to me like there ought to be a clear signal from the rider to the driver, via indicators or whatever to say yes I've seen you, please pass. Otherwise incidents that you've described are pretty much guaranteed to happen. Would it be fair to say that the lack of a life saver would be fair indication that it wasn't safe to pass. I don't know the bend, so I can't visualise the timing of the pass.
Steve.
Steve.
Edited by Steve_T on Wednesday 21st February 14:20
Steve_T said:
Fair enough, but can you explain something for me. What actual rules govern the ring, the rules of the road, or those of a race track? It's a public toll road as far as I'm aware, but I've never been there, so I've no idea how it works in practice. Sounds to me like there ought to be a clear signal from the rider to the driver, via indicators or whatever to say yes I've seen you, please pass. Otherwise incidents that you've described are pretty much guaranteed to happen. Would it be fair to say that the lack of a life saver would be fair indication that it wasn't safe to pace. I don't know the bend, so I can't visualise the timing of the pass.
Steve.
Steve.
German Road law applies. You MUST overtake on the left. If any accidents occur involving more than a single vehicle, the Police are involved. What a lot of the brit first time bikers on their Gixxer thou's don't realise, is that the German chap in his GT3 perhaps has 3000 laps under his belt, and perhaps differently to some of the British GT3 owners (flame suit on) drives the thing VERY hard, maybe without considering the proximity of the armco, etc. This often surprises the novice brits on bikes, who think that most of the 'supercar' owners are precious about their cars like many of their british counterparts.
The Germans are sometimes also a bit sneaky in trying to sneak up the inside or bully people off a line. If you've observant, and/or very quick, you can react to this fairly easily with hardly any detriment to your lap, however, for those first timers, they're often so in awe of the place, they forget what their mirrors are there for!
If you do go, get a few passenger laps in a car before you ventrue out on abike to see how the traffic mixes, and what the track is actually like. Loads of poeple in the car park will oblige.
stay safe (and vigilent) on the ring on a bike though....
Steve_T said:
Would it be fair to say that the lack of a life saver would be fair indication that it wasn't safe place to pass
Steve.
Steve.
Eh? Isn't that exactly what a life saver's for - to check in case someone's doing something unexpected - otherwise what's the point of it? Same as having a quick glance left and right when you're going through green lights - one day some pratt WILL jump the reds. Yes, DO be careful at the 'RING - if you think you've been passed by something fast on a UK track day you really haven't! Full race GT3s are nowhere near the quickest things you see out there! That crest may be blind and a lift to you but Fritz will take it at full chat in his slick shod 600bhp whatever because he knows what comes next. Oh, and then you'll both meet a Japanese tourist doing 20mph right on the exit of the next corner. What larks!
Pugsey said:
rsvmilly said:
AtomicRex said:
I used to suffer badly from this when I rode. In town you would make sure you did all of the life-savers you could.....they did exactly what they said on the tin. However on the country roads, the number of checks decreased as your mindset was one of I'm the fastest thing on the road why bother? It wasn't just me, loads of the riders I took out also did this, and to the extent one was hit by a GT3. Actually to be fair to the GT3 driver he was hit by the biker not looking, as why should he....he was coming into a bend on a bike.....and as we all know bikes are faster than cars so why would one be overtaking him coming into the bend!
Maybe it is how you described it but that sounds pretty dangerous of the GT3 My mistake. Atomic went on to talk about country roads. I thought his description of the overtake was on public roads rather than the ring.
Pugsey said:
Steve_T said:
Would it be fair to say that the lack of a life saver would be fair indication that it wasn't safe place to pass
Steve.
Steve.
Eh? Isn't that exactly what a life saver's for - to check in case someone's doing something unexpected - otherwise what's the point of it? Same as having a quick glance left and right when you're going through green lights - one day some pratt WILL jump the reds. Yes, DO be careful at the 'RING - if you think you've been passed by something fast on a UK track day you really haven't! Full race GT3s are nowhere near the quickest things you see out there! That crest may be blind and a lift to you but Fritz will take it at full chat in his slick shod 600bhp whatever because he knows what comes next. Oh, and then you'll both meet a Japanese tourist doing 20mph right on the exit of the next corner. What larks!
<pedant mode on>
no slicks allowed on public days at the 'Ring as the vehicle has to be road legal, including the level of noise that comes out of the zorst. They do random spot checks (although I think this is more a case of being seen to do something about the noise pollution), although loud V-twins often get turned away from the barrier.
PS full race GT3s are often the quickest things out there on public days. They are often piloted by very experienced/brave drivers as well!
<pedant mode off>
Pugsey said:
Steve_T said:
Would it be fair to say that the lack of a life saver would be fair indication that it wasn't safe place to pass
Steve.
Steve.
Eh? Isn't that exactly what a life saver's for - to check in case someone's doing something unexpected - otherwise what's the point of it? Same as having a quick glance left and right when you're going through green lights - one day some pratt WILL jump the reds. Yes, DO be careful at the 'RING - if you think you've been passed by something fast on a UK track day you really haven't! Full race GT3s are nowhere near the quickest things you see out there! That crest may be blind and a lift to you but Fritz will take it at full chat in his slick shod 600bhp whatever because he knows what comes next. Oh, and then you'll both meet a Japanese tourist doing 20mph right on the exit of the next corner. What larks!
Like I said, I've not been to the ring and I'm also no track expert. Everyone has a different perception of what risk is appropriate and what might be a lark on four wheels is not the same on two. As usual Fergus's pragmatic take on things sums it up for me.
Steve.
Edited by Steve_T on Wednesday 21st February 14:38
fergus said:
Pugsey said:
Steve_T said:
Would it be fair to say that the lack of a life saver would be fair indication that it wasn't safe place to pass
Steve.
Steve.
Eh? Isn't that exactly what a life saver's for - to check in case someone's doing something unexpected - otherwise what's the point of it? Same as having a quick glance left and right when you're going through green lights - one day some pratt WILL jump the reds. Yes, DO be careful at the 'RING - if you think you've been passed by something fast on a UK track day you really haven't! Full race GT3s are nowhere near the quickest things you see out there! That crest may be blind and a lift to you but Fritz will take it at full chat in his slick shod 600bhp whatever because he knows what comes next. Oh, and then you'll both meet a Japanese tourist doing 20mph right on the exit of the next corner. What larks!
<pedant mode on>
no slicks allowed on public days at the 'Ring as the vehicle has to be road legal, including the level of noise that comes out of the zorst. They do random spot checks (although I think this is more a case of being seen to do something about the noise pollution), although loud V-twins often get turned away from the barrier.
PS full race GT3s are often the quickest things out there on public days. They are often piloted by very experienced/brave drivers as well!
<pedant mode off>
Doh - can't use the 'they're on slicks' excuse anymore when they go past then!
Off topic, but Pugsey please explain what golf has to do with driving and english grammar (found that a strange comment)??
However currently training for theworld heave record (chin ups) and i'm hoping being watched will give me that last few to get in the top 3 in the world, but i'm not doing that to make my english grammar any better or improve my game of golf!
Yes i'd imagine someone can preform better or worse when being watched but when i'm out on my bike I don't really care if someones watching me or not i'll just ride my bike.
Golf now compares to driving which in turn has something to do with English grammar!
Oh and now you overtook a bunch of bikers at 130mph, come to Bedfordshire this summer please mate i'm begging you..........
However currently training for theworld heave record (chin ups) and i'm hoping being watched will give me that last few to get in the top 3 in the world, but i'm not doing that to make my english grammar any better or improve my game of golf!
Yes i'd imagine someone can preform better or worse when being watched but when i'm out on my bike I don't really care if someones watching me or not i'll just ride my bike.
Golf now compares to driving which in turn has something to do with English grammar!
Oh and now you overtook a bunch of bikers at 130mph, come to Bedfordshire this summer please mate i'm begging you..........
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