Bikers on the Ring
Discussion
Good post a.g.RCAR; you neglected to say what happened after the corner. Did he clear of into the distance? Or did you pass him to never see him again. I've done very many laps on 2 & 4 wheels. Theye are very different ways of getting around the ring. Also Karousel has to be the most evil corner on a bike.
Anyway does it really matter. You were obviously on a tourist day. NOT A RACE.
Anyway does it really matter. You were obviously on a tourist day. NOT A RACE.
a.g. said:
There are both fast drivers and bikers out there but there are also w4nkers on both 2 and 4 wheels for sure. Even when in my car, I will give the bikers some wriggle room and the benefit of the doubt, as a biker who is "on it" at the Ring is more exposed and more likely to come unstuck at the slightest issue and the consequences would doubtless be more serious than someone in a 911 with a full rollcage.
Sometimes, when taking passenger laps with car drivers, I have to remind them to back off a bit from the bike's back wheel. I often explain that it may be a 'ruined' lap for the driver, but could mean the difference between killing a rider or not if they do come unstuck, as there is room to put the car into the armco if necessary. I've been with people where I could almost see the rear shock moving!
a.g. said:
Steve_T said:
If only everyone thought like you a.g.
Its hardly rocket science FFS!!!!!
Just common sense, courteousness with a basic grasp of simple physics. Anyone devoid of any of these properties should not be even allowed near the Ring IMO.
Edited by a.g. on Thursday 22 February 11:33
No it isn't, but it makes a refreshing change from get out of the way you're holding up my GT3.
a.g. said:
I would also point out that on a bike, entering a bend such as this after scrubbing off your speed, then unloading the front end, setting the bike up for the bend and leaning over, at this point the biker is TOTALLY COMMITTED into that corner. You have then almost reached the tipping point of no return. If the car driver has never ridden a bike then he may be unaware of this. Alternatively he may be aware of this but doesnt give a sh1t as nothing matters than a decent lap time for the pub talk later.
For a bike lapping quickly, they are not totally comitted to the corner, there is always room to move, even if the rider doesn't immediately think so. With the exception of Bren from sliders who can do a 7.43 BTG I don't think anyone rides the ring with the level of commitment you are perhaps referring to?
PS I think when coming up from fuchsrohre (sp) to adenau forst, a quick bike can carry a hell of a lot of speed into that complex, it's just that few choose to do so. In a quick car, it is often difficult to remember that you can carry a LOT of speed through the uphill left hander before you need to brake for the right hander that leads into the adenau forst bend. It's very easy to be right up someone's chuff in a car here. Unfortunately, as you've said, I think you need more commitment from a bike to acheive the same result. Ultimately, the ring is about being smooth and MAINTAINING CORNER SPEED. Hence why Helmut Dahne's RC30 based 'official record' has stood for so long, despite modern bikes approach almost twice the power.
As I said earlier, if people are genuinely quick riders, then the 'Ring will cause them no problems once they've learnt which way the track goes.
doogalman said:
RCAR; you neglected to say what happened after the corner. Did he clear of into the distance? Or did you pass him to never see him again. I've done very many laps on 2 & 4 wheels. Theye are very different ways of getting around the ring. Also Karousel has to be the most evil corner on a bike.
Anyway does it really matter. You were obviously on a tourist day. NOT A RACE.
Anyway does it really matter. You were obviously on a tourist day. NOT A RACE.
I was there on a tourist day, I don't treat it as a race day when I go the the Ring. I am in awe of the place, I don't go out to set a laptime like I would racing either of my racing cars. I go out to enjoy myself, I was staying out the way of everyone. According to my brother the 1st time we went, I didn't shut up for all of the laps that I did.
After the corner it took the guy a while to straighten out then he was off into the distance, but what if he slid on the entry into the Karrussel? He gave himself no leaway for error, the faster cars that have passed me while on the Ring have given me a wide berth and taken the next apex safely.
My main gripe is the safety aspect, they should have specific times for bikers and 4 wheeled vehicles to use the circuit. From my experience, the bikers take it alot more seriously and take more risks than the car drivers.
fergus said:
a.g. said:
I would also point out that on a bike, entering a bend such as this after scrubbing off your speed, then unloading the front end, setting the bike up for the bend and leaning over, at this point the biker is TOTALLY COMMITTED into that corner. You have then almost reached the tipping point of no return. If the car driver has never ridden a bike then he may be unaware of this. Alternatively he may be aware of this but doesnt give a sh1t as nothing matters than a decent lap time for the pub talk later.
For a bike lapping quickly, they are not totally comitted to the corner, there is always room to move, even if the rider doesn't immediately think so. With the exception of Bren from sliders who can do a 7.43 BTG I don't think anyone rides the ring with the level of commitment you are perhaps referring to?
you seem to be suggesting that a bike should move off line mid corner to let a fast car through?
Please tell me that ain't so?!?!?
Steve_T said:
fergus said:
I think unless you're quick on a UK trackday, or an experienced fast road rider (i.e. maintain peripheral awareness naturally) then the Ring is not the place for you. Lots of riders on current big sportsbikes can't ride them that quick, but more importantly, several that I've come across don't seem to have the capacity to recognise what's going on around them.
Reading what you've previously said, I came to the same conclusion, I doubt I'd venture near the ring on two wheels. I'm doubtful about going there on four without substantially more track time.
a.g said:
A bit out of context as my point was when you hear the tyre squeal of the car to the LH side of your rear wheel, then you may only have a metre or so of track width available to complete the corner other than standing the bike up and taking the short route. Also after the apex, the car will probably be just where you need to be as you run wide from the apex to put the power down.
I should have also said that you cant bump elbows with a car to bully your way through even when you feel you genuinely have the line.
Call me a wimp but hearing the sound of 4 squealing tyres behind you from the start to the exit of Adenauer, for which seems an eternity and to look in the mirrors at this point, only to see the offending (usually Porsche with main beams on)slithering around sideways up your chuff on opposite lock is less than helpful. Personally in this situation I tend to use the logic that I may live longer if I commit to taking the corner as fast as poss and staying tight to the right.
Totally agree: thumbup:
Pugsey said:
Don't give the place a miss - you'll be missing out on a terrific experience!
Actually Id say do this place a miss! I'm fed up with going out there to find some Muppet has come all the way over to crash on their first lap trying to beat Clarkson's 10 minute BTG time.
The place used to be empty, and over the last 8 years its got busier and busier every year!
Play it on the playstation and I will send you a sticker!
a.g. said:
atomicrex said:
Actually Id say do this place a miss! The place used to be empty, and over the last 8 years its got busier and busier every year!
Best tell Tony BLiar then that road charging doesnt work, as the Ring is about the dearest toll road in Europe but seems to be getting more congested.
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