Discussion
I've just stuck a deposit on a new R1 and haven't made my mind up yet about what alarm immobiliser to get stuck on it. Any suggestions? Any decent online reviews/comparisons anywhere?
Do they work? Is it worth spending a lot to get a supposedly better one? What about the various tagging options?
Do they work? Is it worth spending a lot to get a supposedly better one? What about the various tagging options?
You'll need to pay through the nose to have it fitted in order to get insuracne recognition.
I fitted a Thatcham Cat 1 to my ST1100 and despite the fact that I worked in the industry (AND was a Datatool approved fitter back when) the insurance ignore it.
I rely on the fact that I know it's properly fitted and the average scrote won't get past it.
From experience I'd go for Datatool but there are others of course. If you have the skills, pick up a new old stock Vito Evo or similar from Ebay for about £60: the £100+ you'll save will offset the insurance anyway...
I fitted a Thatcham Cat 1 to my ST1100 and despite the fact that I worked in the industry (AND was a Datatool approved fitter back when) the insurance ignore it.
I rely on the fact that I know it's properly fitted and the average scrote won't get past it.
From experience I'd go for Datatool but there are others of course. If you have the skills, pick up a new old stock Vito Evo or similar from Ebay for about £60: the £100+ you'll save will offset the insurance anyway...
BobM said:
I've just stuck a deposit on a new R1 and haven't made my mind up yet about what alarm immobiliser to get stuck on it. Any suggestions? Any decent online reviews/comparisons anywhere?
Do they work? Is it worth spending a lot to get a supposedly better one? What about the various tagging options?
Do they work? Is it worth spending a lot to get a supposedly better one? What about the various tagging options?
Sorry - no idea on reviews/comparisons - but I believe (and am prepared to be corrected!) - that the brand leaders are Datatool, and Meta.
My last bike had a Datatool System 3 (I think this has been supersceded with version 4), and my current bike has the Meta (not sure of version).
From experience I prefer the Meta - the Datatool used to give me false positives and randomly go off. The Meta only goes off when I shake the bike.
The Datatool has an option for turning the hazards only on - great until you forget the sequence to turn them off! I have had to ride home with hazards on as there was no way of turning it off til I checked the manual!
Depending on which way you look at it - and I see this positively - the Meta arms itself for two weeks, and then to save battery switches to immobiliser only. I was away for 6 weeks when I had my previous bike, and the Datatool flattened the battery.
I also prefer the keyfob on the Meta - so when buying a bike and getting an alarm/immobiliser fitted in future, I will go for the Meta. Nothing really wrong with the Datatool - just personal preference. I would always have an alarm/immobiliser on bike, and not just for the insurance savings - it makes me feel more secure.
Oh yeah... my ST11 has a pager on it as well. No good having an alarm going off in the pub car park if you can't hear it for Lynyrd Skynyrd and loud talk of decking the tank badges on the A66...
Another possibility is to see if there was a factory-fit alarm for your bike. Some of the big Hondas have this; one slight drawback is that it's plug'n'play so the scrotes only need to learn where the connector is. Incidentally I have a feeling that the Honda system is a rebadged Meta.
Another possibility is to see if there was a factory-fit alarm for your bike. Some of the big Hondas have this; one slight drawback is that it's plug'n'play so the scrotes only need to learn where the connector is. Incidentally I have a feeling that the Honda system is a rebadged Meta.
I agree with Fats. Datatools are complicated and are heavy battery users. Having said that their new version also has a sleep mode. Just picked up a new bike with a Meta and it seems very good so far. The insurance saving for the first year pretty much paid for it so it's a no-brainer.
My datatool has been reliable (that is it's never left me stranded anywhere) since fitting new 6 years ago but it's very sensitive and I wouldn't leave the motion sensor armed if it's windy.
To be honest I'd go with whatever the shop recommend as long as they're prepared to stand by it and repair it if required.
To be honest I'd go with whatever the shop recommend as long as they're prepared to stand by it and repair it if required.
Edited by dern on Thursday 29th March 21:03
Thanks guys. I've got a Datatool System 3 on my current bike and have never had a problem apart from needing the Optimate on it. The place I'm buying the bike isn't terribly competitive on the alarm pricing - quoting £379 for a Datatool system 4 (which is apparently much smaller than the 3 and drains the battery less), £325 for the Meta. They also quote £100 to Datatag it and running that through Bennetts online the quote is only £60 more than with the Datatool or Meta. Almost tempted to go with the Datatag just to avoid the hassle of having to disarm it to move it in the garage, at filling stations etc.
dern said:
My datatool has been reliable (that is it's never left me stranded anywhere) since fitting new 6 years ago but it's very sensitive and I wouldn't leave the motion sensor armed if it's windy.
To be honest I'd go with whatever the shop recommend as long as they're prepared to stand by it and repair it if required.
To be honest I'd go with whatever the shop recommend as long as they're prepared to stand by it and repair it if required.
Edited by dern on Thursday 29th March 21:03
you can have the sensitivity turned down..i did on my datatool system 3, mines set half way and never had a problem with it
does have a sleep mode so doesnt bash you battery to much but i have optimates on both my bikes anyway so no problems with batterys going flat
My early Datatool Evo was great and the Datatool I subsequently got for my R6 was great. The system 3 on my Aprilia was way too sensitive and killed batteries. It was also faulty!
The latest Datatool seems very good, though.
You need to ask what you want the alarm for, though. It won't reduce your insurance premium by more than about 5-10%, which means a long payback for a £300+ alarm.
Speak to Carole Nash as they were doing a fantastic deal on a security package. It included a Datatool alarm, big chain, ground anchor (which they fit), security marking and an Optimate (they even fit the fly lead) all for about £250 IIRC.
Edited to add link to a thread I started on the subject;
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=315267&f=74&h=0&hw=carole+nash
The latest Datatool seems very good, though.
You need to ask what you want the alarm for, though. It won't reduce your insurance premium by more than about 5-10%, which means a long payback for a £300+ alarm.
Speak to Carole Nash as they were doing a fantastic deal on a security package. It included a Datatool alarm, big chain, ground anchor (which they fit), security marking and an Optimate (they even fit the fly lead) all for about £250 IIRC.
Edited to add link to a thread I started on the subject;
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=315267&f=74&h=0&hw=carole+nash
Edited by rsvmilly on Friday 30th March 08:11
I remember i used to tell insurance companies on the phone right at the end of the call i had an alarm,even if they ask you early on just say no it hasn't got an alarm,then later on say(preferably after quote)oh,wait a minute,it does have one,im so sorry i've so much on my mind right now blah de blah....'Then' you will force them,or you will know the alarm has made a difference to the quote.Main reason for doing this ofcourse is that alarm/immobilsers make sod all difference most of the time to insurance companies to be honest,i think they just look at postcodes and that's it.
rsvmilly said:
You need to ask what you want the alarm for, though. It won't reduce your insurance premium by more than about 5-10%, which means a long payback for a £300+ alarm.
Quite, which suggests either the risk of theft is relatively low (probably not true) or that alarm immobilisers only give a relatively small degree of protection. rsvmilly said:
Speak to Carole Nash as they were doing a fantastic deal on a security package. It included a Datatool alarm, big chain, ground anchor (which they fit), security marking and an Optimate (they even fit the fly lead) all for about £250 IIRC.
Yep, currently £349 for Datatool system 4, datatag kit, ground anchor and chain. My worry about this is that if you don't have the bike chained up (and let's be honest carrying these huge chains about is a PITA) then they can avoid coughing up if your bike gets nicked. rumpelstiltskin said:
I remember i used to tell insurance companies on the phone right at the end of the call i had an alarm,even if they ask you early on just say no it hasn't got an alarm,then later on say(preferably after quote)oh,wait a minute,it does have one,im so sorry i've so much on my mind right now blah de blah....'Then' you will force them,or you will know the alarm has made a difference to the quote.Main reason for doing this ofcourse is that alarm/immobilsers make sod all difference most of the time to insurance companies to be honest,i think they just look at postcodes and that's it.
I did exactly this a few years ago. The saving on the insurance was going to be just under £15 per year for an alarm that was going to cost over £300. Over 20 years for the reduced insurance to recoup the initial cost did not make financial sense to me!
If the thieving ones want it, they'll find a way. The best you can hope to do is scare off the chancers who happen to have a screwdriver in their pocket.
My ST13 has a 'chipped' ignition key that prevents the fuel ECU from working (like many cars these days). SO OK, scrotey-boy jimmies the ignition to get the steering lock off but that's all he can do: unless he pays to have a new ECU (and ignition switch/key) that bike isn't going to run. Of course that won't stop the 'nick-to-order' brigade who have a crashed bike they want to ring, but then they'd come with four big blokes, oxy-acetylene and a forklift if they had to.
Fit an alarm by all means but don't expect a pat on the back from your insurers for saving their money. I suspect Datatagging is of limited use because those who would ignore the warning labels and nick it anyway are not going to be around when the Police knock on the door on the rare occasion when they do prove the bits of one bike are actually from yours. I'm sure it has helped some people and may also have deterred a good few petty thieves but in practice your bike is missing and you'll end up with increased premiums one way or another.
My ST13 has a 'chipped' ignition key that prevents the fuel ECU from working (like many cars these days). SO OK, scrotey-boy jimmies the ignition to get the steering lock off but that's all he can do: unless he pays to have a new ECU (and ignition switch/key) that bike isn't going to run. Of course that won't stop the 'nick-to-order' brigade who have a crashed bike they want to ring, but then they'd come with four big blokes, oxy-acetylene and a forklift if they had to.
Fit an alarm by all means but don't expect a pat on the back from your insurers for saving their money. I suspect Datatagging is of limited use because those who would ignore the warning labels and nick it anyway are not going to be around when the Police knock on the door on the rare occasion when they do prove the bits of one bike are actually from yours. I'm sure it has helped some people and may also have deterred a good few petty thieves but in practice your bike is missing and you'll end up with increased premiums one way or another.
y2blade said:
ive got a datatool system 3 on my blade,its very reliable and hasnt missed a beat
the system 4 has just come out though,but i cant vouch for that one as i dont know anyone who has one
the system 4 has just come out though,but i cant vouch for that one as i dont know anyone who has one
Also got the system 3 on my Fazer. also never had any problems and seems to do the job very well
I recently bought a new 955i tiger and insured it with CN.
CN said "you must fit an alarm otherwise your policy will be void"
OK, so I buy their Datatool 4 and wait for a fitting date, and wait, and wait.
They finally give me a date, and I set about booking tickets/time off work etc (as I work abroad)
Two days later they phone me back.
"We can´t fit the Datatool as Triumph say it will void your warranty, but if you pay an additional 8 ukp we will amend your policy so you don´t need an alarm"
Why couldn´t they do that in the first place, duh! (prolly cos 8 ukp is a lot less then the 350 they wanted for the alarm, cynical , moi
I was less than impressed, and they were less than sympathetic about the travel expenses I´d incurred on their behalf. Gits.
CN said "you must fit an alarm otherwise your policy will be void"
OK, so I buy their Datatool 4 and wait for a fitting date, and wait, and wait.
They finally give me a date, and I set about booking tickets/time off work etc (as I work abroad)
Two days later they phone me back.
"We can´t fit the Datatool as Triumph say it will void your warranty, but if you pay an additional 8 ukp we will amend your policy so you don´t need an alarm"
Why couldn´t they do that in the first place, duh! (prolly cos 8 ukp is a lot less then the 350 they wanted for the alarm, cynical , moi
I was less than impressed, and they were less than sympathetic about the travel expenses I´d incurred on their behalf. Gits.
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