Riding advice/wobbly bars!

[virgil]

So went for a bit of a blat yesterday. Filtered to the front of a stationary queue and when the lights changed, gave it some beans (bar far the most I've ever given it). Apart from shooting off like a scolded cat, the front end went quite light and the bars started flicking left/right, left/right couple of inches either way...enough to notice and go ooh over, but not enough to get me too worried. I presume this can be normal for a fast take off? Is this the begining of a tank slapper? - is it likely to get worse, or have I hit the limit of take off for my bike?

Bike has a factory stearing damper - presume to quell this mini tank slapper?

Also a couple of points:

I feel the bike moving more under me now...I'm a lot more relaxed on it and it feels easier to ride with out feeling like I'm glued to it...is this the right way to ride, or am I just going to fall off soon?

I changed down a gear coming into a corner (couple of weeks back) and felt the back end go a little 'wobbly' - guess this is a little too much engine braking causing the back wheel to almost lock in the corner? Guess I just need to change down more controlled (match the revs better) and earlier. I do change down earlier now so I'm fully in control as I hit the bend.

I know it's difficult to see what I'm doing by my description but any suggestions welcomed.

Cheers,

Virgil.

[Mad Dave]

virgil said:

So went for a bit of a blat yesterday. Filtered to the front of a stationary queue and when the lights changed, gave it some beans (bar far the most I've ever given it). Apart from shooting off like a scolded cat, the front end went quite light and the bars started flicking left/right, left/right couple of inches either way...enough to notice and go ooh over, but not enough to get me too worried. I presume this can be normal for a fast take off? Is this the begining of a tank slapper? - is it likely to get worse, or have I hit the limit of take off for my bike?

Bike has a factory stearing damper - presume to quell this mini tank slapper?

Also a couple of points:

I feel the bike moving more under me now...I'm a lot more relaxed on it and it feels easier to ride with out feeling like I'm glued to it...is this the right way to ride, or am I just going to fall off soon?

I changed down a gear coming into a corner (couple of weeks back) and felt the back end go a little 'wobbly' - guess this is a little too much engine braking causing the back wheel to almost lock in the corner? Guess I just need to change down more controlled (match the revs better) and earlier. I do change down earlier now so I'm fully in control as I hit the bend.

I know it's difficult to see what I'm doing by my description but any suggestions welcomed.

Cheers,

Virgil.

a)Tank slapper. I wouldn't worry about it, bike's do that if you ride them hard. If you keep it pinned it'll probably just wheelie. All good fun - the important thing is to stay relaxed. If you tense your arms you'll just accentuate it through the whole bike and your body.

b)Bike moving. It's important to be as relaxed as possible. If the bike i'm riding get's a bit frisky I just weight the pegs to lift my weight off the bike a bit, lets the bike move around without my body weight accentuating it. The TL1000R used to do this a lot, usually whilst doing triple figures.

c)Back wheel lock. Exactly as you assumed - changing down too many gears too quickly, causing the rear wheel to lock. You don't want to do it too close to the corner though as you'll be needing to lean. LOL. Provided the bike is in a straight line it's nothing to worry about, though to be fair, I very rarely lock the back on the road - just blip the throttle and change down nice and early, gives you time to get your braking, gearing and revs right before you're too deep into the corner.

HTH

Dave

[dern]

I would check your tyre pressures and your head race bearings just to make sure nothing is amiss but if they're both fine then it's probably just the way the bike is.

[Mad Dave]

What bike is it?

[rsvmilly]

Mad Dave said:

What bike is it?

748

I'm surprised the front gets flighty as the steering tends to be more relaxed on Dukes than Jap bikes.

Locking up on downshifts - definitely too much engine braking. Practice your rev-matching as you change down. Practice in the car, too. Makes for a smoother drive and less clutch wear.

[virgil]

Yep, 748 it is.

Do normally match the revs in the car...still getting used to it on the bike - was a bit of a wahoo moment when the back end went a bit wobbly so a lot more carefull now.

To be honext I thought the stearing damper would cut out any front end flapping, but guess not...

[Mad Dave]

Can probably dial it out with the suspension - setting up my R1 has tamed it. When I got it the front went light every time I hit 9k rpm

[virgil]

Mad Dave said:

a)Tank slapper....

So I'm right in that there's no way to stop it, just let it happen and don't tense as you suggest??

Mad Dave said:

b)Bike moving....

As long as keeping relaxed is the right thing to do...seems fairly natural to kind of let the bike do what it needs to do rather than keeping rock solid on it an forcing it where to go...if that makes sense...

Mad Dave said:

c)Back wheel lock....

Cool - thought it was this and know already how to prevent it...just got to keep practicing/doing it..

It's quite fun this learning lark..

Edited by virgil on Monday 2nd April 17:04

Edited by virgil on Monday 2nd April 17:05

[virgil]

Mad Dave said:

Can probably dial it out with the suspension - setting up my R1 has tamed it. When I got it the front went light every time I hit 9k rpm

Ah, cross posts, don't you just love 'em.

NO idea how mine is set up - just as it came out of the bike shop and they think it was standard...will check the manual but won't fiddle just yet ;-)

[Momentofmadness]

The staying-relaxed thing really is the key to good cornering, even at the weekend, I was conciously telling myself to relax cos I wasn't in the groove... It makes such a difference!

[Mad Dave]

Indeed. Stay relaxed - if you tense up, you just accentuate any movement the bike makes. By relaxing, you're detaching yourself from the instability to an extent. Most of the time they bike will just sort itself out if you let it. I've just got back from a ride with a friend on his ZX6R. I just wasn't in the groove today and wasn't fully relaxed, mentally and physically. I could feel it every time I cornered. As I was slightly stressed I wasn't looking through the corners enough, my body position was just slightly off and in the end I just pulled over and asked him to lead. It helps that, although he's on a ZX6R, he rides every day and can get that last 10% out of the bike - so on a twisty road, as we were, we're pretty even.

[Mad Dave]

Meant to say, check out the Performance Bikes website - they have a suspension setup guide. It doesn't cover every bike but it may cover yours. I've set up my ZX7R, TL1000R and R1, plus two ZX6Rs for friends, using their guide and all have felt much better for it. As previously mentioned, my R1 used to lift it's head and shake every time I hit 9k - now it wags far less frequently - only when you're absolutely wringing it's neck on an imperfect road surface. Both ends are much firmer which is what I think does it - the rear in particular. Being firmer stops the bike squatting under power, which of course unloads the front. It now wheelies more easily too.

[virgil]

Cool, will take a look, though from what I've read, dukes are set up firmer than some bikes anyway...will take a look when I have time.

My ride tonight was scuppered by a 4.5hr train delay...whoopie do!

[hiccy]

virgil said:

My ride tonight was scuppered by a 4.5hr train delay...whoopie do!

Serves you right, you should be using the bike to commute.